Looking for HOTAS recommendation for VR ED

[Ian Skippy]

I currently have a T16000m. I like the accuracy of the stick, but this is the 3rd set and the stick is again breaking down, acting erratic and jittering. The throttle also isn't as smooth as I'd want. So, I'm eyeing an replacement. Before this I had a T-flight Hotas X (not nearly as accurate as I want) and a Extreme 3d pro (okay, broke down at some point). What I am after:

1) Durability. Getting really tired of buying/replacing every year or so.
2) Twist. I use twist for roll, and want to keep doing it.
3) A smooth throttle, ideally with variable tension.
4) I need at the very least a mini joystick either on the stick or throttle for analog vertical/lateral thrust.
5) The cheaper the better, and definitely under 400 euro for the set.

As it is for VR, fancy displays and stuff isn't a plus to me.

Any suggestions? Many thanks!

 

[Sysmon]

I have enjoyed the X-56 a lot. It has a few extra little twiddlies supposedly for VR (and very useful for it!). The only reason I still return to the keyboard from time to time is laziness and the ability to touch-type.

Just like any other Saitek product, at least the early versions of this stick seem to suffer from the twist vulnerability. Supposedly, that's less of a feature after Logitech took over. My twist broke about a year ago now, but yaw-into-roll has that covered.

Everything else about the X-56 is sturdy and works well in VR.

S

 

[Ian Skippy]

Thanks!

I just noticed that there X56 isn't for sale in any (online) store here. The x52 (pro) is. Have you experience with either, and if so, what are the biggest differences to you?

 

[sewerratuk]

X52 pro is fine, I’ve had one for years without any problems. It just has a few less bells and whistles than the X56

 

[aXeL]

I've had both the X-52 and X-56. X56 has more features but has a bit of notoriety ( deservedly or not ) on the internet for various problems including internal wiring:

www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/7xxndi/introducing_the_new_logitech_x56_hotas/


Also, it can suffer from non-responsive buttons without an external power source ( I had this problem ). I have to use an external USB Hub to power it ( and plug nothing else into the hub, otherwise it will randomly stop working ).

Mine also suffers from physical ( not logical ) drift on the throttle. Under it's own weight, the throttle will, very slowly, tip forward so that, in the game, my speed will slowly increase. I had to set a massive dead zone to compensate. If I stare at the throttle on the desk, I can watch it crawl forward. Thinking about looping a rubber band around the base and hooking it through the button rails.

I've a few other niggles that, when I complained to Logitech, I basically got the, "We know and we're working on it".

Conversely, my X52 was bomb proof. Years ago I gave it to a mate for whom it still works perfectly.

In short, do I like my X56 - yes. Would I have bought it over the X52, knowing what I know now? No. If it dies, will I buy another? No. X52 would be my default choice. It just works.

 

[CMDR Harada]

I had the exact same thing happen to me : T16k breaking every 8-10 months. The last straw was the latest one getting jitter in the twist function after 6 months. I loved the T16k joysticks, but enough was enough.

Do yourself a favor and get something that will last. Going cheap will only lead to disappointment. I figured I spent over $250 in broken joysticks in 3 years, even getting T16ks on sale for $60 each time, plus shipping. If I had just bought a good piece of equipment to start, I would have been way ahead. Even getting a more mid-range model, ( the X52-56 series ) it would have put me into the $200+ range for the full HOTAS. I looked at Virpil and Warthog but couldn't bring myself to splash out $400-$500, much like you. I also couldn't bring myself to buy another disposable HOTAS, again much like you.

I ended up with the VKB Gladiator II, with the SCG handle upgrade ( roughly $275 US, including shipping, tax, etc, but even cheaper now ). It's a single joystick, with throttle in the base and twist rudder, very much like the T16k. Plenty of buttons, lots of hats, and it will last for quite a while. I use one of the hats for vertical/horizontal and reverse thrusters, the second for PIPs management, and the third for menus. You can get the SCG pro handle, and it will give you a mini-joystick ( replacing a button on the side of the handle ). Like other high quality sticks, it is field serviceable and meant to be repaired/upgraded. There are multiple handles to suit your taste, and you can even swap different handles onto the base if you feel like it. Fully programmable, and you can map buttons to emulate keyboard keys to get around the ED '32 button' limit. All nice features to have. There is talk about a separate throttle ( like the Virpil Mongoos ), but nothing for sale as yet.

In practice, I am very happy with it. Almost a full year and no issue. Still tight, no slop. In VR it is KILLER. Plenty of buttons so I am not sliding the headset up to cheat a look at the KB. I will say that it took a while to get the buttons mapped how I wanted them, and the custom map thru the VKB software for the +32 buttons to KB was somewhat of a hassle, but no more so then other pieces of new equipment.

After playing with the VKB for almost a year now, I can't go back to lesser stick. Much like a $150 bottle of wine, once you've had the good stuff, you can't drink cheap swill. You'll see reviews for the other top line stuff out there and most will echo that sentiment.

 

[aXeL]

Much like a $150 bottle of wine, once you've had the good stuff, you can't drink cheap swill.

The Man!

 

[AlSki]

I've run an X52Pro for the last couple of years. It was a Saitek so my issues might not be relevant anymore but...

• I've had to replace the twist spring after it snapped
• I've had to increase the dead zones as the central spring seems to be weakening over time

Otherwise its pretty much perfect. I can still map every action to the stick, by using two "shift" buttons in combination with other buttons, and that's with hardly any of the toggles on the stick base in use. If the reliability has improved I would recommend, but I'm likely to go for an X56 next time myself, just so I can replace the stick springs whenever I want.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Thanks!

I just noticed that there X56 isn't for sale in any (online) store here. The x52 (pro) is. Have you experience with either, and if so, what are the biggest differences to you?

I think that the X-52 PRO is great for VR. Now no stick will compensate for some of the design shortcomings of porting this game to VR, like the FSS or the Galaxy Map navigation, but it does a pretty good job. One of the main things I like about it is that it's the stick that the ingame stick and throttle were designed after, so you get a natural immersion as your avatar hands match what your real hand is feeling. I really like that.

 

[sgurr]

Re the FCS Throttle, have you seen youtube vids about regreasing it? Seems to make a huge difference (caveat, I don't own one)
Obviously that wouldn't allow on the fly tension changes.

My T16000m is 6 years old now and is working better than ever, mainly because last year when it was 'broken' I took it apart, cleaned it out (including the twist) and regreased (Molykote EM-30L). Also added an insert in the pitch/yaw mechanism which makes it sit dead centre now, it's more accurate than ever.
(While it was broken I tried various other sticks including high end ones and kept coming back to the T16000, maybe too used to it)

For a throttle recommendation I love my CH Throttle. No variable tension, or centre detent, but a light, smooth action which I've slowed down a little with the grease.
Thumb joystick for analogue thruster controls and more buttons than I know what to do with. Also, it's built like a tank, still perfect after 6+ years.

Edit: I wouldn't recommend the CH joysticks, they have no twist and like you I use it for roll

 

[Wasp0]

Having had almost every HOTAS around and under 200 of the Queens finest pounds, i can honestly say the X52pro works for me. The X55/56 is also good, but quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Castillo]

Sometimes you can find the non-pro X52 really cheap, it's somewhat plasticky but does the job just fine.

 

[Turranius]

I've had the X52 Pro for years now without a problem. I broke the cable between the joystick and throttle once by dropping it, but found that a normal PS/2 male-male keyboard connector cable worked just fine.

Also some buttons started doubleclicking sometimes (Like the A and B buttons) after a few thousand hours of use. I opened the joystick and sprayed some IsoPropanolAlchohol (IPA) on them and it worked as new again.

I have the "Clutch" button set to Shift, so I can hold that and any other button, basically giving me double the amount of functions on the buttons.

Edit: Oh yeah, the center click thingy (so you can feel when you are at 50% throttle) on the throttle broke. I just opened the throttle and removed it as well. Good as new and not something that was needed anyway.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Okay, so It Is Done: got an e-mail from one store they just received a X56, so bit the bullet. Thank you all very much for the feedback and suggestions. FWIW: I was very close to ordering a CH throttle (apart from the T16000m breaking down I find the stick itself more than fine, the throttle not so much) but the X56 changed my mind.

Lets hope it works.

 

[aXeL]

Have fun - when it works, it works very well. Couple more thoughts:

1. If your PC is sitting, switched on and not doing anything for a day or so and then the sticks don't work in the game - that's a sign of needing a good powered USB3 hub. I found I could alternate between using different onboard chipsets but using the hub was a permanent solution. BTW my hub had to have nothing else plugged in.

2. In the game, certain switches and hat settings just cannot be mapped for certain functions in ED but for other ED functions they'll map just fine. Just how it is and there are so many options to choose from, it's never been a problem for me.

3. The base grips are not very grippy so I use blue tack to stop the sticks sliding around when I'm excited.

I'm a WMR user so all the buttons and hats on this stick are a god send. I don't even have to take the headset off to quit the game.

 

[Old Duck]

Dualshock 4

 

[Pyrotiger]

It'll be hotter than Venus.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

2. In the game, certain switches and hat settings just cannot be mapped for certain functions in ED but for other ED functions they'll map just fine. Just how it is and there are so many options to choose from, it's never been a problem for me.

I also have a x56, the only button that I couldn't map was the SLD, and that was an easy fix. In the joystick's software you map the SLD to a key press such as 'V' with a repeat function, so when its slid forward its pressing the key. I've got V mapped to Silent running in elite.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Is it possible to map the switches on the base of the throttle to 'down=gear down, up=gear up' and such for similar 'toggles' (lights, cargo hatch)?

 

[Full_Ninja]

I currently have a T16000m. I like the accuracy of the stick, but this is the 3rd set and the stick is again breaking down, acting erratic and jittering. The throttle also isn't as smooth as I'd want. So, I'm eyeing an replacement. Before this I had a T-flight Hotas X (not nearly as accurate as I want) and a Extreme 3d pro (okay, broke down at some point). What I am after:

1) Durability. Getting really tired of buying/replacing every year or so.
2) Twist. I use twist for roll, and want to keep doing it.
3) A smooth throttle, ideally with variable tension.
4) I need at the very least a mini joystick either on the stick or throttle for analog vertical/lateral thrust.
5) The cheaper the better, and definitely under 400 euro for the set.

As it is for VR, fancy displays and stuff isn't a plus to me.

Any suggestions? Many thanks!

For durability I recommend

CH PRODUCTS, industrial and professional joysticks

CH Products, leading manufacturer of Industrial joysticks and Hall effect control devices including fingertip joysticks, trackballs, handgrip and simulation controllers.

www.chproducts.com