[FEDERATION] [LFG] Looking for Winters powerplay players

Sophokles Logimo

Sophokles Logimo
My current squadron are a small group of really cool people, but one of them is in a different time zone, others prefer to do hauling, and powerplay is not really a priority for them.

And I want to do powerplay stuff for Winters, and I prefer combat. Rank 71 now, should hit 100 in one to three weeks, I guess. So I am looking for a squadron that is into that, preferably a large one with lots of people in European-compatible time zones. I am not explicitly looking for PvP (earns few merits anyway), but if someone forces me to do PvP, I don't want to be defenseless, which means I will ruthlessly use any resource the game offers me (including crime reporting, calling squadron mates for help/assisting others, any kinds of weapons I find useful, and such), which rules out the most prominent Winters group who imposes lots of "We don't want to win"-rules on their members. I think the game has a good in-game "legal" framework for all that as it is and doesn't need us to tie our own hands.

If I can find like-minded people in my time zone, I am willing to found a new squadron, but I'd prefer to join an existing one. Any hints would be appreciated!
 

Sophokles Logimo

Sophokles Logimo
Thanks, but...
I am not explicitly looking for PvP (earns few merits anyway), but if someone forces me to do PvP, I don't want to be defenseless, which means I will ruthlessly use any resource the game offers me (including crime reporting, calling squadron mates for help/assisting others, any kinds of weapons I find useful, and such), which rules out the most prominent Winters group who imposes lots of "We don't want to win"-rules on their members. I think the game has a good in-game "legal" framework for all that as it is and doesn't need us to tie our own hands.
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And they are quite explicit about those "We don't want to win" rules.
 

Markov Chaney

M
OP is complaining that Federal United Command have an ethos and rules of engagement consistent with both Federal Powers. So I'm not sure OP has thought about whether OP has picked the right Power for his RP. There are lots of "we will succeed by shooting everybody else with every ordnance available" Powers available and Winters ... isn't one of those.

(I don't think of Winters as a combat-first thing at all which is why my hold is full of these gosh darned leaflets all the time.)
I did think the tone of FUC was a bit much too, but then again FUC isn't Winters, it's Fed.

For the curious, the rules he's talking about are probably "crimes off, no premium ammo, no healies, no SLFs"

But genuinely, "ruthlessly use any resource the game offers me" isn't ever how it will work in a modern Federal theater. It's not even how it worked in a NATO theater in 2025. I think you need to find a Power who freelance it a bit more, or make your new wing explicitly the "by any means necessary" faction of the Fed and wrap some lore around it, which would actually be quite cool and obviously has lots of historical parallels. (inb4: don't start mentioning historical parallels in replies, you'll get yourselves moderated)
 

Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
Markov Chaney said:
OP is complaining that Federal United Command have an ethos and rules of engagement consistent with both Federal Powers. So I'm not sure OP has thought about whether OP has picked the right Power for his RP. There are lots of "we will succeed by shooting everybody else with every ordnance available" Powers available and Winters ... isn't one of those.

(I don't think of Winters as a combat-first thing at all which is why my hold is full of these gosh darned leaflets all the time.)
I did think the tone of FUC was a bit much too, but then again FUC isn't Winters, it's Fed.

For the curious, the rules he's talking about are probably "crimes off, no premium ammo, no healies, no SLFs"

But genuinely, "ruthlessly use any resource the game offers me" isn't ever how it will work in a modern Federal theater. It's not even how it worked in a NATO theater in 2025. I think you need to find a Power who freelance it a bit more, or make your new wing explicitly the "by any means necessary" faction of the Fed and wrap some lore around it, which would actually be quite cool and obviously has lots of historical parallels. (inb4: don't start mentioning historical parallels in replies, you'll get yourselves moderated)
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Got it.

Well, I'm not going to discuss the case but the principle (which is one, if not the main) reason why I have left the old Delaine's discord server: powers (by lore and game mechanics) don't have rules at all, "rules" are introduced at "community" level in order to "maintain and guarantee" some type of order, hierarchy as well as a behavioural set, among and within the members of such community (with the final goal of being benefit to the power).

All those rules are [for the most part] worth zero outside the community.

Rules require some one who does set, control and enforce them (leadership).

In my opinion, where leadership was needed in PP1, rules were needed as well and these were affecting both the power and the community.

In PP2 there's no need for leadership, hence no need for rules at power level... but... a community may adopt rules, so in order to be part of such community, one is asked to don't break those rules.

The questions are on a thin line here: are the rules for the power, for the community... or for both?

The problem is when all the above mixes up and it results in a unintelligible cauldron (hence my preference is community rules ok, not for the power).

Then there are the so called "fairplay/unwritten rules" for PvP (i.e. no ghosting, no SLFs, etc), these are very general and with broader use and scope (i.e. universally applicable) and are very depending on the general consensus among the players who are interested into PvP. Reason is that opponents may opt to avoid confrontation with other groups not adopting them (i.e. "I wouldn't engage a wing using healies").

These "rules" which I define more like "good practice" are often provided at squadron level too.

Squadrons have their rules and good practice, and it's where they are indeed enforceable as there's a "captain".
 
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Dragsham

Dragsham
Leadership within each PP group is essential!
They dictate strategy! Which in turn filter down to tactics to oversee those strategies being played out.
Having no such 'board of directors' would result in chaos
 

Rebel Yell

Rebel Yell
Dragsham said:
Leadership within each PP group is essential!
They dictate strategy! Which in turn filter down to tactics to oversee those strategies being played out.
Having no such 'board of directors' would result in chaos
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There's no chaos in PP2, given it is impossible to "control and dictate" what the entirety of pledged players do, what a power expresses in the Galaxy will be in any case the result of a sort of "democratic" behaviour.

(then there's the problem of "no one can tell a pirate what to do", which applies to pirates, like me)
 

Tifu

Tifu
Dragsham said:
Leadership within each PP group is essential!
They dictate strategy! Which in turn filter down to tactics to oversee those strategies being played out.
Having no such 'board of directors' would result in chaos
Click to expand...

Not really, it just leads to a looser coalition of independent commanders who intend to play PP 2.O as it should be played.

Hierarchy was necessary in PP 1.0 - in PP 2.0 it's an anachronism.
 

Sophokles Logimo

Sophokles Logimo
Markov Chaney said:
OP is complaining that Federal United Command have an ethos and rules of engagement consistent with both Federal Powers.
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You have read it on reddit, yet failed to read the decisive explanation in the OP there and here: This is a purely defensive stance on PvP, when forced to do it. We are not going to gank anyone, unless they gank us first. So we do not consent to PvP, but if you force us into it, the cheese will fly, and maybe if that is not the game you want to play, just leave us alone, maybe?

Markov Chaney said:
For the curious, the rules he's talking about are probably "crimes off, no premium ammo, no healies, no SLFs"
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Two of those for me personally (crime reporting and SLF's), but in principle, all the things in the game are fair to get rid of gankers in the game, in my opinion.
 

Azdraugr

Azdraugr
You are giving consent to PvP by flying in Open.

no crimes is debatable imo, since its more of a "lets fight clean"-thing, but SLFs are known to cause lags, which is an exploit in the case of PvP.
 

Tifu

Tifu
Sophokles Logimo said:
Two of those for me personally (crime reporting and SLF's), but in principle, all the things in the game are fair to get rid of gankers in the game, in my opinion.
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Azdraugr said:
You are giving consent to PvP by flying in Open.

no crimes is debatable imo, since its more of a "lets fight clean"-thing, but SLFs are known to cause lags, which is an exploit in the case of PvP.
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Can someone clarify the SLF rules of engagement for the rest of us? So if Team A breaks the rules by bringing SLFs then Team B cries "FOUL!!!" then goes home?

How exactly does it work?
 

Markov Chaney

M
Sophokles Logimo said:
You have read it on reddit
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I have not. Have you mixed up two comments here? And I responded directly to your point expressed on this forum anyway, but for clarity, I'll say it again below.

"we are not going to gank anyone, unless they gank us first" is a great illustration of what I am saying: an actor with an ethos similar to Winters will always have a rule against that. Back on ancient Earth, if you used biological weapons in warfare, you were absolutely not entitled to use biological weapons in retaliation. And responses must be proportionate whatever else happens, according to dozens of international treaties. So to me, it's just not how Winters would behave in 3311. Other Powers have made different choices more aligned with yours.

Sophokles Logimo said:
This is a purely defensive stance on PvP, when forced to do it. We are not going to gank anyone, unless they gank us first. So we do not consent to PvP, but if you force us into it, the cheese will fly, and maybe if that is not the game you want to play, just leave us alone, maybe?
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That's great, start a wing with that manifesto. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not aligned with Winters.
 

Tetra Trash

Tetra Trash
Markov Chaney said:
I have not. Have you mixed up two comments here? And I responded directly to your point expressed on this forum anyway, but for clarity, I'll say it again below.

"we are not going to gank anyone, unless they gank us first" is a great illustration of what I am saying: an actor with an ethos similar to Winters will always have a rule against that. Back on ancient Earth, if you used biological weapons in warfare, you were absolutely not entitled to use biological weapons in retaliation. And responses must be proportionate whatever else happens, according to dozens of international treaties. So to me, it's just not how Winters would behave in 3311. Other Powers have made different choices more aligned with yours.


That's great, start a wing with that manifesto. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not aligned with Winters.
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That just, like, your opinion, man.
 

Azdraugr

Azdraugr
Tifu said:
Can someone clarify the SLF rules of engagement for the rest of us? So if Team A breaks the rules by bringing SLFs then Team B cries "FOUL!!!" then goes home?

How exactly does it work?
Click to expand...
Well pulling out a NPC controlled SLF (afaik they work mostly fine when players control them) causes the whole instance to lag and rubberband. So sure, if you dont like the interdiction, use it and everyone will let you be. (or blow you up, depending how bad the lag is or how weak the ship build)
However using them isnt "allowed" within most PvP / Open only Powerplay communities, since it interferes with the general fair engagement, which is easy to dodge still. And will most likely result in the player who used it, to be kicked from the community. You can imagine it like a real life lag switch, just already implemented to the game... how generous.
 

Tifu

Tifu
Azdraugr said:
However using them isnt "allowed" within most PvP / Open only Powerplay communities, since it interferes with the general fair engagement, which is easy to dodge still. And will most likely result in the player who used it, to be kicked from the community. You can imagine it like a real life lag switch, just already implemented to the game... how generous.
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I think that's very clear, thank you. So I assume the same penalties will apply to a group of Mahonites invading Fed territory in Open who happen to be bringing SLF's with them?
 
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