Proposal Discussion Loosing players out of sight

[Bearhug67]

I really look forward to the game and even I still have mixed a bit mixed feelings about the multi-player part as there are always munchkins and trolls out there did my confidence grew that in-game mechanics like consequences for actions will help to keep the majority of problems in check.

But I want to bring up another point I missed so far being addressed yet but which I faced before in other game worlds which were MUCH smaller then galaxies but still created a big problem even it was even there not often mentioned...

"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

As much I love the idea to trade and explore the galaxy, I wonder what ideas the developers have to help players not to get 'lost' in space simply by loosing each other in the vast space.
I faced in some MMO's how very large game worlds are fun to explore but can make it also increasingly challenging to run into other players as there are so many space stations, planets and asteroids around to visit just be a limited amount of players filling the multi-player universe

So I thought it might be interesting what ideas people might have which can help players to find eachother/socialize in the game and I am not just talking about the classic posting boards which are not everybodies flavor. They are fast but also a bit impersonal. Additional methods in-game which have a more immersive feeling would be a great idea.
Important detail: Those methods should be voluntarily and not enforced on people as some just love their privacy and blend in like a chameleon.
The idea is to give people assistance aids to find others besides boards if so desired.

Here are some ideas which just pop in mind.

- a galaxy or at least local map which shows more commonly used spots and routes of players in the system. When people activate their 'social' flag their travelling data can help to show stations which are more visited by players then others fed by server data about activities of the server which feeds the data of this sector.
- A flag whcih could work like a friend-foe or ship id system, broadcasting a flag like LFG (looking for group) or (role-player), etc. Players could set their game to not get such info at all if prefered to not disturb their immersive experience but can turn the feature on and use it to give people a short description of what kind of contact they look for. They could send then the ship a mail as the pilot might be busy at the moment which could be handled as in-game transmission or mail which the player can find in his com when he finds a moment of relaxation and tries to kill time in transit. A little bit like a possible pal system where the message person might be still in the same system, maybe even on the same space station or maybe jumped already to a neighbor star and go from there whatever the exchange might bring up, maybe meeting next time they are at the same time int he system.
- The map could also show besides POI like popular player stations in a system more popular, major jump routes between particular popular planets.
The map should not keep track of every last player but just help more to display areas with high density of players to allow players which are new in the area and/or return from a deep space trip or mining operation and try to find a rough orientation point where are the next player based 'population' is to nudge them just into a potential good direction from a long distance on the galaxy map before then more local system can help like local system maps.

Those are for now just a few vague ideas to bring the point over. I am sure to alllow player full freedom to fly everywhere they want but at the same time not to let them loose out of eachothers eyes for a very long time is very challenging and I am sure the developers already have some own ideas which I would love to hear about.
Whatever those aids are, they should be on a voluntarily basis only and not keep track of every last player but showing and pointing out general higher concentrations.
Other systems/ideas then can focus between geenral orientation/finding and running literally into each other on a space station one day (when the extension is out). If such aids can be integrated into the game functions like described in the examples above then it can even add to the feeling to be aprt of the galaxy.

I am looking forward to feedback.

 

[Listeri69]

It all comes down to where you want to play personally there will be core systems where I expect to find more players a vast majority of systems will be unexplored.The game itself is designed from what I have read to place you in instances where you will meet players especially in more populated systems. Having said that your ideas are good it would be fairly easy to do. Personally I expect places like Lave, sol and the founders world to be the busiest areas as far as human players go with population decreasing as you radiate outwards towards the frontier. But things like population density and trade route popularity should be available for a price anyway

 

[Susimetsa]

Artificially trying to bring people together would only destroy the feel of an immense universe. Meeting up with people should not be common in the frontier systems and even in the core systems it should not be easy to just bump into people - unless you've arranged a meeting beforehand. The are several spaceports in the Sol system already (in Frontier: First Encounters at least) and just happening to be in the same place at the same time might not be that easy.

For example, if I belong to a sub-group (not "all") of 100-500 other players, I would not expect to see them very often - but when I did, it would be a special occasion worthy of breaking open that special crate of aged rum that I haul around wherever I go.

In the "all" group, meetings would be more common, but still not everyday occurrences especially if you are in the frontier or unexplored systems.

 

[Patrick_68000]

For each group of players (pvp, pve, all, private, ironman, normal ect ...) there could be a real-time list of all the systems in which all the players are located.
And for each system, the percentage of players. This will give you a simple overview of the frequentation of systems. To go there or avoid them. And why not in each system, the percentage of players in each space station ?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I wonder what ideas the developers have to help players not to get 'lost' in space simply by loosing each other in the vast space.

Limited information from FD at this stage.

From what I can remember though events and incidents appear on your galactic map as "hot spots" that you can fly to and have a look. A few things spring to mind about this:

- Perhaps your friends list will include a current location point-of-interest on the galactic map
- Perhaps there will be a range to how far your map can "see" these hot spots
- Perhaps there will be equipment to install on your ship to increase the range
- When pilots engage in combat they "glow" on the map to which others might see it and come join in
- Events (like helping build a space station) will appear on your map.

Many possibilities - we await to see exactly what FD do

For each group of players (pvp, pve, all, private, ironman, normal ect ...) there could be a real-time list of all the systems in which all the players are located.

I don't agree with this - it's not realistic and makes finding people (who don't want to be found) far too easy.

Now if you dock at a spaceport they might share your docked details with other spaceports in the region, or perhaps be available to someone who bribes an official to find out for you, but otherwise you should be hard to find .. that's the point of Pirates vs Bounty Hunters .. BH's follow the hot spots caused by combat (from pirates kicking in traders) and pirates try to evade capture by fleeing all around the galaxy .. if all you had to do was look on a list and do a search the thrill of the chase wouldn't be very exciting

 

[Patrick_68000]

I don't agree with this - it's not realistic and makes finding people (who don't want to be found) far too easy.

Now if you dock at a spaceport they might share your docked details with other spaceports in the region, or perhaps be available to someone who bribes an official to find out for you, but otherwise you should be hard to find .. that's the point of Pirates vs Bounty Hunters .. BH's follow the hot spots caused by combat (from pirates kicking in traders) and pirates try to evade capture by fleeing all around the galaxy .. if all you had to do was look on a list and do a search the thrill of the chase wouldn't be very exciting

Perhaps you misinterpreted ?. It there would be no the players names. Simply the percentage of players (on the total of players in each group) in each system.

The anonymity is preserved. In addition, the game is dynamic, players are moving (hundreds of systems, briefly occupied by thousands of players)


This would allow go in the systems in which there is animation, or avoid ...

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Perhaps you misinterpreted ?. It there would be no the players names. Simply the percentage of players (on the total of players in each group) in each system.

I see .. a bit like a hot spot appearing on the galactic map when anything "interesting" happens, like an event or a conflict you mean ?

 

[Patrick_68000]

I see .. a bit like a hot spot appearing on the galactic map when anything "interesting" happens, like an event or a conflict you mean ?

Yes a general hot spot. Us imagine in the PVP group Ironman. 4000 players online. Just a list showing: 8% of players in the Sol system, 3% Barnard star, 2% Tau Ceti, 6% Facece, 9% Achenar, 12% World's founder ...

 

[Keeval]

a galaxy or at least local map which shows more commonly used spots and routes of players in the system. When people activate their 'social' flag their travelling data can help to show stations which are more visited by players then others fed by server data about activities of the server which feeds the data of this sector.

Something like this is already in the Galaxy Map proposal - see here

A heat map overlay can be used to see where players/pilots are travelling. So you will get a general idea of the busy systems/stations.

A flag whcih could work like a friend-foe or ship id system, broadcasting a flag like LFG (looking for group) or (role-player), etc. Players could set their game to not get such info at all if prefered to not disturb their immersive experience but can turn the feature on and use it to give people a short description of what kind of contact they look for. They could send then the ship a mail as the pilot might be busy at the moment which could be handled as in-game transmission or mail which the player can find in his com when he finds a moment of relaxation and tries to kill time in transit. A little bit like a possible pal system where the message person might be still in the same system, maybe even on the same space station or maybe jumped already to a neighbor star and go from there whatever the exchange might bring up, maybe meeting next time they are at the same time int he system.

In the Communications proposal - see here.

They mention visual identifiers - so potentially there could be one you could activate so that other pilots would see an identifier against your ship that indicated you were looking for a group to join - potentially different symbols for the different types of groupings (escort, missions etc.)

The map could also show besides POI like popular player stations in a system more popular, major jump routes between particular popular planets.

The map should not keep track of every last player but just help more to display areas with high density of players to allow players which are new in the area and/or return from a deep space trip or mining operation and try to find a rough orientation point where are the next player based 'population' is to nudge them just into a potential good direction from a long distance on the galaxy map before then more local system can help like local system maps.

The heat map overlay on the galactic map will cover this.

Good thinking though I like the idea about a way to LFG.

 

[Bearhug67]

Thanks for the feedback. I just not have the time to search always the huge amount of postings as my job keeps me quite on the toes.
The search function is nice and helps sometimes but it is hard at times what search terms to use

The idea to keep the data on other players vague was on purpose as it was not my idea of help elusive people or stalkers nor to force people together. I just remember from the old Elite times were I was gone for quite some time way out in nowhere space and as I returned to more inhabited space I was wondering how in a multiplayer game the game can assist with just enough data were to aim the ship of your nose at.

I missed such a feature often in MMO's which are also supposed to players to meet if desired but the sheer size of the game world made this often quite difficult except with zone search functions.

I was more thinking of something in-game which feels more naturally, embedded in the game like your computer draws information from nav-star satellites.
Whatever the number of ED will be, I am sure the sandbox will be ever MUCH bigger and there should be more then one option to look for other players which do look for player interaction like flying together, assisting, rp, etc.

In that matter, thanks for the links to the already existing ideas as I could not find everything in my limited time
Danke

 

[Zak Gordon]

Keep in mind that even though space is big (really big, bigger than a big thing), and kind of always has been in the Elite games (more so Frontier and FFE), 90% of your travel time is always getting to somewhere where things are happening.

That might be a space port or planet dock (once Planetary Landings are live). Now consider 90% of the player base will be doing exactly the same thing, and really you won't have to worry about not bumping into folk.

Add in the whole NPC aspect, and all of the more typically traveled space lanes will be lively enough.

So in short i don't think this is really a problem Elite: Dangerous will have, as Elite has never had the problem from the first game onwards.