Magnetospheres + Plasma Surprise!

[VR Golgot]

This is a moonshot of an idea, and it would only really work as part of a spread of additions... But I like it

The Science (as I understand it):

Juno's approach to Jupiter looped around the poles to nip through the parting magnetosphere torus and avoid the radiation-belts:

The space around Jupiter is filled with electrically charged atomic particles -- electrons, protons and ions. (The bulk of this material comes from volcanoes on Jupiter's moon Io.) These particles feel the force of Jupiter's powerful magnetic field and move in response to it. Some of the particles, mainly the electrons, are accelerated to nearly the speed of light.

Even though electrons are incredibly small and have almost no mass, there are a lot of them, moving very fast, and thus they pack a huge amount of energy. This high-energy charged particle radiation is concentrated in belts around the planet's equator. The radiation can damage electronics, and thus it poses a hazard for any spacecraft visiting Jupiter.

Over about 15 months, Juno will make 33 orbits around the giant planet's poles, coming to within 3100 miles (5000 kilometers) of Jupiter's cloud tops every 11 days. This special orbit allows Juno to get very close to the planet while avoiding the most intense regions of radiation.

To a stationary observer, the radiation belts appear to wobble back and forth over the course of a Jovian day (about 10 hours). This is because Jupiter's magnetic axis is offset from its rotational axis.

It seems these perilous belts are formed mainly by the ejecta from small active moons (Io's volcanoes in this case) being trapped within the magnetosphere.

Bonus Case Study: Although Saturn also has radiation belts, fed in particular by Enceladus's geyser ejecta it seems, they're far weaker, apparently mainly due to absorption by the moons, and in particular the rings themselves, leaving safe zones near the latter.


The Game Mechanism:

• Planets with significant magnetospheres & active moons kicking out ejecta would damage craft that blundered into their radiation belts.

• There would be a variety of potential belt formations and strengths, due to the various existing factors in Stellar Forge (ejecta type, ring presence, magnetosphere strength & alignment with orbit etc).

• Impact on Ships: The outcome is up for grabs, but I'm assuming issues running from electrical interference up to damage to hull and maybe external drives. [If we're cool with stuff interacting with a ship in Supercruise that is. If not perhaps interference with the FSD is the outcome - and then the damage kicks in ]

• Pilots have access to a new scanner which allows them to see the magnetosphere & the see or fathom the radiation belts. This could be high end kit, with high energy requirements perhaps. (And some may wish to forgo it and chance their arm by guessing the safest point of entry for descent, near the poles, based on existing planetary info, and using audio cues to help them realise if they're on the point of disaster).

• EDIT: Some extra reward facet will be needed, to correlate with the risk. IE maybe plasma fields could be scoopable for rare resources? Maybe gas giants etc of this nature could have a higher yield of a certain range of materials or precious chemicals etc?

Why?

• It adds flight challenge
• It rewards space savvy
• It leverages existing Stellar Forge variety to create varied gameplay outcomes.
• The scanner could have various uses beyond viewing the magnetosphere / plasma etc
• It could look & sound badass and be hella fun

Bonus Pretty & Bonus Challenges:

• Auroras would be stronger here due to extra 'fuel'
• The magnetosphere could be depicted in one (or several?) of these ways. Very purtyyyy.
• The audio wizards could have a play with these noises
• To really push the boat out you could try and model phenomena like Io's flux tube, although I have no idea if it presents dangers or notable gameplay opportunities. Looks cool though
• EDIT: Bonus oddity! If we need something precious to scoop, we could do far worse than Michael 'Hold My Axe' Brookes's plasma-based single-cell organism idea! He uses Jupiter/Io as his example no less. (They could even supply an alternate damage model, based on metal metabolising properties or something, if we need to get really leftfield )

---

Known Issues:

• The Sun's Radiation output is MUCH higher:

As noted below, this causes some real issues, as far as the pseudo-sci underpinnings go.

Possible Solutions:

• Make star plasma more hazardous!:

• Many have asked for it. Making the various eruptions more than just aesthetic, but something to be tracked and avoided.
• In an ideal world some kind of scanner overlay could allow for predictions of the next eruption. (A 'simpler' solution could be basic activity indicators on the Sensor display, and a slightly tardy detection warning in audio form)
• Cool-running exploration ships could have a slightly easier time of it, allowing for a touch more 'cruise' mode around more placid stars.
• (If the plasma events upped fuel scooping [would they up the hydrogen count in the local area?] then there's a possibility of a risk/reward passtime: 'cool surfing' nearer to the events to scoop fuel more quickly.)

• Downgrade gas giant radiation belts to scooping zones alone:

Would be a real shame, as I think they'd make great space geography.

Never-the-less, some fun could be had with them as a point of interest:

• Microbe 'rares' requiring prolonged scoping time
• The combination of close proximity & long exposure causing incremental heat exposure.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

This is a moonshot of an idea, and it would only really work as part of a spread of additions... But I like it



The Science (as I understand it):

Juno's approach to Jupiter looped around the poles to nip through the parting magnetosphere torus and avoid the radiation-belts:




https://www.universetoday.com/133091/proposal-juno-observe-volcanoes-io/


It seems these perilous belts are formed mainly by the ejecta from a small active moon (Io's volcanoes in this case) being trapped within the magnetosphere.

Bonus Case Study: Although Saturn also has radiation belts, fed in particular by Enceladus's geyser ejecta it seems, they're far weaker, apparently mainly due to absorption by the moons, and in particular the rings themselves, leaving safe zones near the latter.


The Game Mechanism:

• Planets with significant magnetospheres & active moons kicking out ejecta would damage craft that blundered into their radiation belts.

• There would be a variety of potential belt formations and strengths, due to the various existing factors in Stellar Forge (ejecta type, ring presence, magnetsphere strength & alignment with orbit etc).

• Impact on Ships: The outcome is up for grabs, but I'm assuming issues running from electrical interference up to damage to hull and maybe external drives. [If we're cool with stuff interacting with a ship in Supercruise that is. If not perhaps interference with the FSD is the outcome - and then the damage kicks in ]

• Pilots have access to a new scanner which allows them to see the magnetosphere & the moving radiation belts. This could be high end kit, with high energy requirements perhaps. (And some may wish to forgo it and chance their arm by guessing the safest point of entry for descent, near the poles, based on existing planetary info, and using audio cues to help them realise if they're on the point of disaster).

Why?

• It adds flight challenge
• It rewards space savvy
• It leverages existing Stellar Forge variety to create varied gameplay outcomes.
• The scanner could have various uses beyond viewing the magnetosphere / plasma etc
• It look & sound badass and be hella fun

Bonus Pretty & Bonus Challenges:

• Auroras would be stronger here due to extra 'fuel'
• The magnetoshpere could be depicted in one (or several?) of these ways. Very purtyyyy.
• The audio wizards could have a play with these noises
• To really push the boat out you could try and model phenomena like Io's flux tube, although I have no idea if it presents dangers or notable gameplay opportunities. Looks cool though

Count me in. Anything that makes the "PvE" aspect of the game better is a win in my books. The space occupied by a solar system could be much more dangerous than is currently the case.

I made a case for certain star types having "hot spots", where fuel scoops worked quicker, but at the risk of a damaging solar ejection.

 

[MK Regular]

You certainly seem to be having some interesting and well though out ideas for possible Beyond Q4 features. Keep up the good work and take all the rep you want.

 

[the source 0179]

I'm fine without having this. We still haven't got other things in the game yet like discs around some black holes, comets etc etc

 

[VR Golgot]

Cheers MK & M_H!

Yeah I'd love it if they could get something like this in for Q4. Think it's possible we could just squeak in to that dev run even now if we pitch appropriate stuff, or influence current design thoughts at least. (It's all cool if they kick it down the road too though, it's an idea that makes some fun sounds when you tickle it with your toe )

I'm fine without having this. We still haven't got other things in the game yet like discs around some black holes, comets etc etc

I know what you're saying, but I'm mainly just adding things to the big list of 'wouldn't it be amazing if...'

I'd almost take this over black hole accretion disks etc purely on the grounds that it could provide gameplay that varied depending on how Stellar Forge had expressed a system. I feel that as a proc gen game ED is really begging for more of that. (While black hole improvements could probably involve gameplay considerations, and could look awesome too, I don't see such a wide spread in potential gameplay outcomes there somehow. Comets have more potential to tie into existing strands of reactive gameplay & mechanics etc though, for sure).

Plus I'm also trying to give them reasons to bootstrap cool stuff like amazing scanners

 

[Teh Smoo]

How would this improve the game?

 

[VR Golgot]

How would this improve the game?

How do new flight challenges improve the game?

How do new SuperCruise passtimes improve the game?

How do game mechanics that convert Stellar Forge variations into individual challenges improve the game?

How do mechanics that allow for player knowledge & deep audio-visual cues to guide success improve the game?

How does a new scanner to interrogate & appreciate Stellar Forge & planetary tech improve the game?

How does increased Exploration gameplay improve the game?

How does increased risk-reward Exploration gameplay improve the game?

How do you improve the game?

---

I mean essentially, it could do with a greater reward facet attached, to correlate with the risk. IE maybe plasma fields could be scoopable for rare resources? Maybe gas giants etc of this nature could have a higher yield of a certain range of materials or precious chemicals etc?

But we all want the scanner tech, minimum, right? And this could be a solid novel gameplay loop that gives it another reason to be...

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

How would this improve the game?

How could realistic, and visually stunning space effects do anything but improve the game. Even without gameplay they would be worth it. But add a little risk and a couple of things to do in them, and it's well worth it.

 

[Nero Tacitus]

+1.

Anything that adds more danger to the game is a good thing IMO. One thing I do think this game is lacking in is that it never requires learning about anything beyond the game's own idiosyncratic mechanics (most of which are designed/created/altered to suit the game). I enjoy learning new things about physics, even if I don't understand most of it ^_^. Adding this kind of stuff to the game gives it a realism you can't get with features designed exclusively for play.

 

[VR Golgot]

+1.

Anything that adds more danger to the game is a good thing IMO. One thing I do think this game is lacking in is that it never requires learning about anything beyond the game's own idiosyncratic mechanics (most of which are designed/created/altered to suit the game). I enjoy learning new things about physics, even if I don't understand most of it ^_^. Adding this kind of stuff to the game gives it a realism you can't get with features designed exclusively for play.

This is a great ideal for the game, and one I hope they can expand on. It's great that they've injected a lot of real science considerations into the game design and modelling. It helps create an internal logical for the game world, and even has gameplay impact at times. (I'm thinking of how the colour pass on planets, using the formation logic, have helped bring out the mountain ranges / ejecta coverings on the land etc, which in turn have made the planets look more recognisable as such to our hind brains... It's a huge challenge to make these 'balls' look like planets when we're zipping past them at speed. Our brains have no point of reference for such behaviour. Those recognisable aspects give our brains that point of reference... that these things are mountainous, and monstrously pitted... that they are big )

What would be properly great is if we could see more of these underlying rules & variations expressed in a gameplay-impacting way. Leveraging the spread of Stellar Forge outputs (& the planetary tech geographies etc) feels like a great untapped resource...

 

[VR Golgot]

Interesting objection on the Reddit version of this thread!

My point is that, despite this being a good idea for an in-game natural space hazard, ED's 34th-century ships are robust enough to withstand indefinite exposure to solar radiation comparatively close to the star's surface, and the high-energy relativistic jets found emanating from ED's neutron stars. I suspect the radiation found in Jupiter's magnetosphere would probably barely be an issue to 34-century ships.

Although FDev often fudges some science to defer to gameplay issues, I suspect that the plot hole that the orders-of-magnitude difference between solar radiation encountered within a stellar corona and the comparatively rarefied emissions from a gas giant's magnetosphere would present would be way too much of a stretch.

As a semi-pro/enthusiast that does more than dabble in these matters, I've been trying to find exposure numbers for both situations, and annoyingly I can't find anything, just energy potentials for the involved particles.

I suspect he's probably right on the disparity between solar radiation & gas giant radiation belts being pretty immense. That does cause issues. (I don't think the science needs to be iron clad, but consistency is always good)

My main thoughts at the moment are:

• We could make sun ejecta a hazard, as many have requested previously

• We could make the radiation belt damage cumulative in nature, with greater time spent in it. (Scooping for precious resources could therefore be the main mechanic, giving a reason for exposure, with entry concerns more an issue for very poor landing runs...)

But if the disparity really is too great for even extra proximity & exposure to explain the damage to our otherwise sun-hardened ships, I do have an outlandish ace up my sleeves. How about we deploy...

• The Michael Brooks Face-Eating Fuzz

Otherwise known as his idea that single-celled life could evolve and survive in plasma flows exactly like those formed by Io & Jupiter!

I mean, we'd need to stretch it, but say we could fathom an evolutionary route for them to metabolise parts of our ship... and say scooping them involved some rare good or other. That's our exposure, damage, and risk/reward model right there right?

(Although ideally I would want to keep the flight approach aspect too...)

 

[VR Golgot]

Oh damnn. Update might be a dream-killer...

I've finally run into one figure, in that the Juno probe was expected to have to withstand 20 million rads while it passed through Jupiter's magnetosphere, but it would appear that nobody is at all concerned about the intensity of radiation coming from the Sun's corona--it looks like it's just To hostile an environment to consider sending a probe too deep into.
One set of numbers that are available is the particle densities of both bodies, and if these numbers are indicative of the radiation encountered in either, "orders-of-magnitude" wound up being an understatement: At its densest, Jupiter's radiation belts only have 2,000 particles per cubic centimeter (effectively a vacuum), while the Sun's lower corona has an average density of around 10,000,000,000 particles per cubic meter. This density implies that Jupiter's magnetosphere would present less than one 5 trillionth of the radiation that our ships routinely protect against: Human spaceflight capabilities have definitely come a long way in the 1,300 years since the Juno probe's mission.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, this only addresses the x-ray emissions coming from the corona, and not the UV/x-rays emitted from the Sun's surface.
That also winds up neutering the idea of ship-eating microbes inhabiting the vacuum in orbit around Jupiter: basically, there wouldn't be enough material available for such an organism to grow to a population dense enough to be noticeable, let alone abundant enough for it to cause problems with a ship's hull. Planet-borne microorganisms would pose a much bigger threat in regards to corrosion.

Junnnnoooooo

:/

EDIT:

Hmm, although.... I'm thinking the cumulative damage thing might still work, if we're talking normal flight, not SC.

When we drop out of SC, even at a sizeable distance from a star, we take significant damage. So even at massively lower orders, you'd think there could still be a reasonable slow attrition effect if we flew through these regions for a prolonged period. (And presumably a bit of tech-woo could be deployed to allow scanning of molecular 'rares' or what have you).


Could still provide the risk/reward, and the funky scanner additions, if not all the flight skills of the initial idea. And not be totally out of whack.

EDIT2: Would almost certainly require star activity to pose a greater risk too in SC, to try and represent the comparative savagery there. No bad thing as a 'mini game' IMO, if they can make it work. (All in-game visuals etc, possible bonus boon for super-cool craft being able to surf more extreme areas potentially. Hell, some form of scanner use to help predict massing areas of danger could be snuck in too in an ideal world )