Make big ships good for pvp

[DemonCrucible]

make big ships good for pvp, it took me 3 months to get the full federal corvette engineered for pvp and other 3 for the cutter, but when it comes to combat is impossible, because small and medium ships destroy you with the target lock of plasmas and carrying more than one chaff is impossible to hit them, please do the following:
1.- make it possible to neutralize the target lock of the plasmas with the emission ammunition
2.- make that only one chaff can be carried for all medium and small ships
3.- Make big ships faster
With these suggestions, it will be worth the price and effort to obtain a large ship.

 

[Firebeard]

Big ships are already good in PvP plenty of hardpoints much interior to reinforce fighter bays etc.

But work out that just because it's "ye biggeste" doesn't necessarily make it "ye bestest"

A cutter is NOT a combat craft - let's get that straight for a start - it's a trader therefore it can haul immense cargo but isn't very manoeuvrable.

However when attacked I would suggest you either make use of the fact nothing mass locks you and execute the or learn your strengths and maximise those.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Big ships are already good in PvP plenty of hardpoints much interior to reinforce fighter bays etc.

But work out that just because it's "ye biggeste" doesn't necessarily make it "ye bestest"

A cutter is NOT a combat craft - let's get that straight for a start - it's a trader therefore it can haul immense cargo but isn't very manoeuvrable.

However when attacked I would suggest you either make use of the fact nothing mass locks you and execute the or learn your strengths and maximise those.

actually a cutter is very much a combat ship, theres a reason why it requires a naval rank to unlock. because its the empire's best naval vesel


Second big ships are easy targets for shield generator attacks, drive emps, phasing sequence, ect
seasoned PVP'ers use medium and small vessels because they are fast and can zip hard with a few engineering tidbits.

my main ship i use in the game is a heavily engineered anaconda that can blow tons of out of hte water, but even I wouldn't take it into PVP
its just too easy of a target.
I can have as much hull and shield as I want but seasoned PVP'ers are just going to get small and zippy ships that they can easily use to avoid fire from my anaconda.

The big 4 are powerful but they are terrible choices for PVP.

 

[Powderpanic]

Big ships suck in PVP because their hard counters are too strong and are not balanced out by their DPS output.

The only thing GOOD about a big ship is it the initial large reserve of shield MJ.

Personally, I would upscale all the big ships hardpoints, creating a Large ship only HP, Maybe the super huge*.

Give the big ships some form of bite.

It would actually make them a threat to small and medium ships and would stop 1v1 fights between large ships lasting 20minutes.

TBH the whole balance in the game is completely screwed. This is just one part of the problem

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Big ships suck in PVP because their hard counters are too strong and are not balanced out by their DPS output.

The only thing GOOD about a big ship is it the initial large reserve of shield MJ.

Personally, I would upscale all the big ships hardpoints, creating a Large ship only HP, Maybe the super huge*.

Give the big ships some form of bite.

It would actually make them a threat to small and medium ships and would stop 1v1 fights between large ships lasting 20minutes.

TBH the whole balance in the game is completely screwed. This is just one part of the problem

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

this ^

Infact you could take down a federal corvette with a armor tank cobra in like 5 passes

 

[Misty_Dark]

make big ships good for pvp, it took me 3 months to get the full federal corvette engineered for pvp and other 3 for the cutter, but when it comes to combat is impossible, because small and medium ships destroy you with the target lock of plasmas and carrying more than one chaff is impossible to hit them,

So basically, people chaff, and you can't hit them with your gimbled/turret weapons.

People use target lock breaker on you, and then you cannot re-aquire the target. with options like target highest threat, or cycle Prev/next hostile target.



I do not do PvP, but these are just some lame excuses for wanting a change.
I have the same issues in PvE...

Small ships chaff, so I have to use fixed weapons to hit them.... or patiently wait for to wear off...
Ships drops heat sinks, and I losses my lock on them, and I have to wait for them to warm up again before I can target them again.
When doing conflict zones, there are often missiles going off everywhere, making targeting the highest threat useless... so I have to use prev/next hostile find the target I was shooting at.



Perhaps big ships aren't the "best" ships for PvP? have you considered that possibility? They are obviously quite capable of PvP, but there could be other ships that simply are better at it.

 

[Azreh Helas]

The cutter and the vette are very good for pvp but as big ships they come with draw backs, they have a large hit box and its easy for mine ships to destroy their shield generator. But otherwise they are very tanky and deal a lot of damage. But theb est ships for PvP are mediums in wing fights id say 3 med and one big is a good combo. As with everything else you have to know how to build them, as hull tanks they are pretty much useless because all that hull wont protect you against module sniping and thats why i like them more as shield tanks. Unfortunatly to do a shield tank build you have to be pledged to Aisling for four weeks.

 

[JetsonRING]

The big ships are just fine for PvP aslong as they are flown by a competent CMDR.

So many threads "I have the biggest, baddest ship in the game, why am I not Invincible?"

For the same reason just because you have a Z06 Corvette you are not winning races.

It is not the arrow that wins the battle, it is the Indian and just because you have the biggest gun does not mean you know how to effectively use it. o7

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

The big ships are just fine for PvP aslong as they are flown by a competent CMDR.

So many threads "I have the biggest, baddest ship in the game, why am I not Invincible?"

For the same reason just because you have a Z06 Corvette you are not winning races.

It is not the arrow that wins the battle, it is the Indian and just because you have the biggest gun does not mean you know how to effectively use it. o7

Competent cmdr's are saying that big ships are terrible for PvP because they are easy targets not because they are hard to pilot.

Emp and shield casscade attacks are lethal to big vessels.

The main reason why seasoned pilots only use medium and small ships in PvP is because big ship are way too easy to take down.

Hell Ive used a cobra to take down a fully engineered anaconda in pvp before.

This thread has nothing to do about skill, it has to do with the fact that big ships are just easy targets. Plain and simple.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

make big ships good for pvp, it took me 3 months to get the full federal corvette engineered for pvp and other 3 for the cutter, but when it comes to combat is impossible, because small and medium ships destroy you with the target lock of plasmas and carrying more than one chaff is impossible to hit them, please do the following:
1.- make it possible to neutralize the target lock of the plasmas with the emission ammunition
2.- make that only one chaff can be carried for all medium and small ships
3.- Make big ships faster
With these suggestions, it will be worth the price and effort to obtain a large ship.

No to all three.

 

[AdmiralXanos]

2.- make that only one chaff can be carried for all medium and small ships

If you cant hit mediums with fixed weapons with or without a target lock that's your main problem. Also all gimbled weapons can be fired without a lock and function like lesser fixed weapons so you can bypass chaff.

really I see small craft being the only ones that are hard to hit without using turrets.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

To make big ships really viable in PvP excluding a stack of them in wingfights, higher class AoE modules could be a solution. Tactical advantages that slow, push away, heat up or disable FSDs in their radius is a good start (includes wingmates). Imagine a C7A internal module that temporarily disables electronic devices in ships similar to the UP effect but with a radius of 4-5 km and even larger when modded.
This way big ships represent the frontline with huge tactical advantages without changing them too much at all though I wouldn't mind a rework for bigger ships.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

make big ships good for pvp, it took me 3 months to get the full federal corvette engineered for pvp and other 3 for the cutter, but when it comes to combat is impossible, because small and medium ships destroy you with the target lock of plasmas and carrying more than one chaff is impossible to hit them, please do the following:
1.- make it possible to neutralize the target lock of the plasmas with the emission ammunition
2.- make that only one chaff can be carried for all medium and small ships
3.- Make big ships faster
With these suggestions, it will be worth the price and effort to obtain a large ship.

1) you can require target lock with the press of a button.
2) switch to fixed to keep hitting your target. Or, as I do (because I suck with fixed), unlock packhounds, decimate their shields, then take our their chaff launchers. It's s cheese move, but it works.
3) small and medium ships main advantage is their speed. The Cutter is pretty quick, but doesn't turn, ever.
The other two are kinda slow, but they're big.

 

[Morbad]

make big ships good for pvp, it took me 3 months to get the full federal corvette engineered for pvp and other 3 for the cutter, but when it comes to combat is impossible, because small and medium ships destroy you with the target lock of plasmas and carrying more than one chaff is impossible to hit them, please do the following:
1.- make it possible to neutralize the target lock of the plasmas with the emission ammunition
2.- make that only one chaff can be carried for all medium and small ships
3.- Make big ships faster
With these suggestions, it will be worth the price and effort to obtain a large ship.

I don't feel these changes would be either neither necessary or beneficial.

Infact you could take down a federal corvette with a armor tank cobra in like 5 passes

Not a vette equally oriented toward combat with a pilot of similar competence.

The main reason why seasoned pilots only use medium and small ships in PvP is because big ship are way too easy to take down.

I was a seasoned PvP pilot long before I had access to big ships (and long before there were any big ships besides the T-9 and Anaconda).

It being easy to over commit (it's easy to become trapped, because they are so slow, relatively speaking) in a large ship is definitely part of the challenge of using them in PvP, but they are not easy to take down when competently built and flown, as they have numerous strengths of their own.

Hell Ive used a cobra to take down a fully engineered anaconda in pvp before.

The existence of poor pilots using inflexible loadouts should not be used to overgeneralize large vessels as incapable of defending themselves.

Every big ship pilot should spend significant time in the smaller vessels first, so they have a good idea of what they are capable of, before trying to counter them with a larger ship.

To make big ships really viable in PvP excluding a stack of them in wingfights

I'd argue they are already viable, just difficult to leverage as part of a wing, needing special consideration to not become separated from the group and become overly vulnerable to uncontested focus fire, or simply left behind as the fight outpaces them.

I do think there is room for improvement in the overall balance of smaller vs. larger vessels that could better emphasize the flavor differences that should be there while keeping them viable, but I do not at all agree with some of the assessments voiced in this thread of large ships essentially being sitting ducks for smaller ones.

 

[SergMx]

...
Unfortunatly to do a shield tank build you have to be pledged to Aisling for four weeks.

Whatever the shield, it immediately drops from 3-4 torpedoes!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Whatever the shield, it immediately drops from 3-4 torpedoes!

Sure - but even a T-9 can outrun torpedoes, never mind something boosting with engineered drives, so that's not a major threat if you're expecting the possibility.

 

[SergMx]

...
It is not the arrow that wins the battle, it is the Indian and just because you have the biggest gun does not mean you know how to effectively use it. o7

Unfortunately, a large weapon and a large number of slots can not be used for large firepower.
Even 8a engineering distributor is not enough: (

 

[SergMx]

...
This thread has nothing to do about skill, it has to do with the fact that big ships are just easy targets. Plain and simple.

I think the author had in mind that the cost of getting a large ship, its engineering and its fine should correspond at least to those ships that attack it.

 

[SergMx]

Sure - but even a T-9 can outrun torpedoes, never mind something boosting with engineered drives, so that's not a major threat if you're expecting the possibility.

Large ships are not very maneuverable and large enough to quickly evade a torrent of torpedoes

Again, as noted above, there is a whole bunch of weapons penetrating through any shield, such as flares, etc.

 

[Morbad]

Whatever the shield, it immediately drops from 3-4 torpedoes!

Reverb torpedoes do ~40 integrity damage a hit to a shield gen. A resistance focused shield gen will still work after five torpedoes and if you are building to specifically survive torpedoes you can make a generator that will still work after absorbing seven on an anaconda or vette or up to eight on a cutter.

Of course, you also have to land the torpedoes, which is not always easy.

Large ships are not very maneuverable and large enough to quickly evade a torrent of torpedoes

Most torpedo attacks are more likely to miss than most properly built large ships are to be doomed even if they lose their shield generator once.