Make Turrets into Defensive weapons. Massively buff their damage, but heavily nerf their accuracy.

Right now, Turrets are a very, very niche weapon choice. Low damage is only slightly compensated for by slightly better DPE and a wider firing arc, and the vast majority of ships simply aren't slow enough for them to really matter. The only place you consistently see them is on afk boats, which isn't exactly top-tier gameplay!

So here's the idea; massively - and I mean MASSIVELY - buff their damage. But at the same time, make them EXTREMELY inaccurate, to force attackers to play defensively. Furthermore, whenever the ship equipped with them changes course, the turrets aim would be disturbed.

I'm talking 75% miss rates, here. These guns should be the meaning of spray and pray. For example, consider a current C3 turreted multicannon. It does 9.5 DPS, compared to 18.8 for the fixed version. It's basically doing the same damage as a class 1 cannon.

In my proposal, its damage would be buffed to something like 40 DPS - but again, it would miss 75% of the time, especially equipped on a ship making frequent course corrections. Even in ideal circumstances, it would still have a fairly wide cone of fire, benefitting small ships and fighters.

However, as the target remains in range, slowly, ever so slowly, this very poor accuracy would sloooowly resolve, growing more and more accurate with each shot. Players attacking a ship outfitted with a full compliment of turrets would be like bombers flying in to attack a city guarded by flak; explosions raining around them, darting back and forth to avoid AA fire, before swing in to unleash carefully-timed attacks before dodging back out of range again to reset the targeting!





A key factor would be making sure they're not overpowered in attacking hands. The last thing you want is someone to ram someone else and unload 500 gigawatts of particle energy from turrets.

My tentative solution is that at extreme close ranges, the turrets would get 'confused' by the target being, apparently, everywhere. Rather than firing constantly, they'll move from one firing position to another before firing, trying to locate the center of the target. As the enemy stays close they'll slowly fire faster and faster, but it'll be enough time for a ship under attack to get out of the way, but not so long an attacker can just sit on a defending ship's side and not take any damage.




The ideal goal is that defending convoys that stick together can marshal a powerful defensive spray of fire, but these weapons couldn't be used terribly effectively by attackers.
 
automatic turrets are so weak already that it does not even make sense to fit them on a mining ship or for bounty hunting. there was a very short period of time maybe in ed 2.3 when automatic turrets were useable, but shortly after maybe in ed 2.4 they reverted them back to useless. the suggested change will change nothing beside making these even more useless as they currently are ...
 
automatic turrets are so weak already that it does not even make sense to fit them on a mining ship or for bounty hunting. there was a very short period of time maybe in ed 2.3 when automatic turrets were useable, but shortly after maybe in ed 2.4 they reverted them back to useless. the suggested change will change nothing beside making these even more useless as they currently are ...

Why do you say? They'd have the potential to do 4x as much damage, and would default to their current DPS.
 
Eh? I plaster turrets all over my big ships because I think they're proper Science Fiction space weapons. I must admit I'd like their damage to be un-nerfed though; I don't see why an identical weapon should have half DPS just because it's on a different mounting. I'd also like more weapon types to be available in turrets.
 
Right now, Turrets are a very, very niche weapon choice. Low damage is only slightly compensated for by slightly better DPE and a wider firing arc, and the vast majority of ships simply aren't slow enough for them to really matter. The only place you consistently see them is on afk boats, which isn't exactly top-tier gameplay!

I use turrets for experimental application so that I can focus more with my fixed weapons. I've compared using gimbals and turrets in this fashion, and the turrets are flat-out superior. It sounds like you just haven't found a way to use turrets successfully.
 
I use turrets for experimental application so that I can focus more with my fixed weapons. I've compared using gimbals and turrets in this fashion, and the turrets are flat-out superior. It sounds like you just haven't found a way to use turrets successfully.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely get that! I've used a turreted corrosive multicannon on several of my ships, as well as turreted cooling beams.

I just want them to be useful for more than just that. And right now, trade ships have effectively no good options, so I figured, why not make them useful for that?

This change wouldn't make turrets any less effective for adding experimental effects, by the way! Even at their lowest accuracy, they'd still hit more than often enough to regularly trigger whatever effect you need.
 
Eh? I plaster turrets all over my big ships because I think they're proper Science Fiction space weapons. I must admit I'd like their damage to be un-nerfed though; I don't see why an identical weapon should have half DPS just because it's on a different mounting. I'd also like more weapon types to be available in turrets.

I want something like this scene from star wars:


Turrets powerful enough to make attackers fly defensively, and allowing even traders a reasonably defensive capability where none currently exists. I'd be fine with having them on bigger ships too, in specific scenarios. Heck, for attacking other big ships I'd be cool with careful maneuvering allowing focusing of broadsides of cannons and the like.
 
I hate to say this @DemiserofD but as an avid turret user who has been using them since shortly after launch.. back when they were good… your proposition would only break them further.

You describe your proposal in a way that has me envisioning the battlestar galactica firing a field of flak. Exceptionally deadly. A wall of fire that burns like hell. But past it you are safe as well as outside its range. As romantic as that sounds though combat in elite has evolved into something which is incompatible with the romance of such a vibe.

What needs to be done first before anything else is changed is to remove turrets susceptibility to chaff and return them to their original state from the launch of the game when they were immune to chaff.

A few months after launch when I finally managed to achieve my first a-rated and fully outfitted python loaded out with two rail guns, a large plasma accelerator and two large beam turrets; I became death. I was unstoppable. I slaughtered many players in the battle of Kui Hsien, the first community goal I ever participated in shortly after obtaining the ship and build. If the enemy was in front of me they ate plasma and rails. If they were they were PERMANENTLY under fire by my turrets… and back then, pre-engineers their damage may have been low but when used intelligently like I was I could maintain fire with them indefinitely and keep them on target the entire fight no matter how much chaff the target had.

Needless to say, back then they were overpowered and they were nerfed by adding susceptibility to chaff. I believe the best course of action is to reverse that nerf while keeping them susceptible to the dispersal effect on pa’s from engineering. This would continue to make turrets counter-able by: dispersal field, silent running/heat sinks/stealth, target lock breaker (when used in target only mode) and good old fashioned positional dominance.

After reversing that nerf then we should look at the results and see if further changes are needed. I will say that due to the increased speed of ships during combat and the massive inflation of hit points and resistances reversing the nerf is absolutely needed. I suspect once that is done little to nothing else will need to be done.
 
Right now, Turrets are a very, very niche weapon choice.

I would like to start with this wrong assumption. Actually vast amount of npcs you meet in the game use turrets if the weapon has turret version. Well, probably except elite npcs.
That has nothing about your suggestion but I suspect the suggestion will change the game significantly.
 
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You describe your proposal in a way that has me envisioning the battlestar galactica firing a field of flak. Exceptionally deadly. A wall of fire that burns like hell. But past it you are safe as well as outside its range. As romantic as that sounds though combat in elite has evolved into something which is incompatible with the romance of such a vibe.

I'd like to focus on this for a moment. You describe pretty well my ideal result, but why do you say that elite has evolved to the point where this wouldn't work?
 
I'd like to focus on this for a moment. You describe pretty well my ideal result, but why do you say that elite has evolved to the point where this wouldn't work?
Well if we look at the imagery of a Battlestar, its Vipers and the Cylon Raiders and consider that the Battlestar is relatively stationary compared to the fighters it's defending itself from. While our ships in Elite are mostly much larger than Vipers and Raiders they are still flown more like fighters and this is even true for the large ships we fly as well, to an extent.

If we take that imagery even further something like a Type 9/10, Anaconda, Cutter etc compared to something like a Viper would put them closer to something like a Raptor. Could you imagine a Colonial Raptor spewing out a wall of fire when it's not that much less agile and not even that much larger than a Viper?

So maybe "evolved" isn't the right word but ship combat is dramatically different than BSG. I'd love to see that kind of effect with stations, fleet carriers, Farraguts and Imperial Interdictors. I just can't imagine that type of behavior being translated well into our existing turreted weapon systems and being viable. Most especially when you consider high speed high skill pvp combat... and if it is good enough to give the average pilot a reasonable expectation of holding off a single ganker while flying a large ship the result will be that the gankers and griefers will start applying turreted weapons in their attacks.
 
Eh?
Nope.

I use them alot. And i never used an AFK boat.

For what, if you don't mind me asking? Other than the aforementioned debuff application. There are precious few places where turrets are superior to gimbaled weapons.

I suppose they are somewhat helpful to players who are unable to effectively aim, but I don't think we should be basing game balance around players who can hardly even play. In any case, my suggestion wouldn't hurt them at all.
 
Well if we look at the imagery of a Battlestar, its Vipers and the Cylon Raiders and consider that the Battlestar is relatively stationary compared to the fighters it's defending itself from. While our ships in Elite are mostly much larger than Vipers and Raiders they are still flown more like fighters and this is even true for the large ships we fly as well, to an extent.

If we take that imagery even further something like a Type 9/10, Anaconda, Cutter etc compared to something like a Viper would put them closer to something like a Raptor. Could you imagine a Colonial Raptor spewing out a wall of fire when it's not that much less agile and not even that much larger than a Viper?

So maybe "evolved" isn't the right word but ship combat is dramatically different than BSG. I'd love to see that kind of effect with stations, fleet carriers, Farraguts and Imperial Interdictors. I just can't imagine that type of behavior being translated well into our existing turreted weapon systems and being viable. Most especially when you consider high speed high skill pvp combat... and if it is good enough to give the average pilot a reasonable expectation of holding off a single ganker while flying a large ship the result will be that the gankers and griefers will start applying turreted weapons in their attacks.
The unfortunate root of the problem is the fact that small ships can achieve bizarrely large Health pools. You can end up in strange situations like having a one-man Sidewinder have substantially more hull and shields then a ship a hundred times its size.

So, I will agree that it doesn't particularly make much sense to have a T9 spewing out as much fire as what a Farragut should be shooting, but unfortunately, that's the amount you need in order to have any sort of impact.
 
The unfortunate root of the problem is the fact that small ships can achieve bizarrely large Health pools. You can end up in strange situations like having a one-man Sidewinder have substantially more hull and shields then a ship a hundred times its size.

So, I will agree that it doesn't particularly make much sense to have a T9 spewing out as much fire as what a Farragut should be shooting, but unfortunately, that's the amount you need in order to have any sort of impact.
Soooo... the problem is that a small ship outfitted for combat is better at combat than a large ship that isn't outfitted for combat?

o_O
 
For what, if you don't mind me asking? Other than the aforementioned debuff application. There are precious few places where turrets are superior to gimbaled weapons.

I suppose they are somewhat helpful to players who are unable to effectively aim, but I don't think we should be basing game balance around players who can hardly even play. In any case, my suggestion wouldn't hurt them at all.
I always have mostly laser turrets on large ships. They can start firing while I mess about launching the SLF, setting pips, thinking about a high-wake option etc. Once the tasty cargo pirate has no shields I move in with huge overcharged gimbal multicannon.
 
OP: No. Just because you don't use turrets, others do. They are damn fine weapons. You trade DPS for ToT and they are much better than most people give them credit for. They are weak when faced with chaff, so not good for PvP where someone will spam chaff over and over, but for PvE they work just fine.

For pve, breathing and mashing buttons works fine.

turrets should be just as powerful as their fixed counterpart for damage.

Instead, they shouldn't auto-fire willy nilly. NPC's you hire should be assignable to turrets or if you have no npcs or they are busy flying an slf or something.. NPC's (or humans) greatly increase the viability of turrets, but they can only operate one at a time. they should only auto-fire when a target lock is made. The target locks vary based on class of hardpoint as well as your sensor module. Low class sensors are horrible at making a target lock for your turrets.. Higher class sensors are better.

This creates incentive to equip something other than class D sensors. So ships with better operating auto-turrets have a downside as high class sensor modules are costly in mass and energy usage. And your turrets don't need to be buffed or nerfed to some stupid level. And you have a purpose for your npc crew. (they can be used instead of better sensors but how good they are depends on their rank)

Also, limiting turrets to specific hardpoint locations is an option. Aft ship and other blind-spot areas. In the imaginary future where large ships are balanced properly so they dont maneuver like little fighters, those ships would be allowed to equip all over (and probably would need to).
 
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