Mostly in response to this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/480700-So-The-Bubble-Is-Burning-And
One of the oft-complained about things regarding the Thargoids is that the rest of the galaxy doesn't seem to care. More recently, the increased rate of station damage, while still fractional compared to the overall size of the human-populated bubble, is seeming like a losing grind-fest, where you fix one station, and three more damaged ones replace it in an endless cycle.
I've posted elsewhere about the reasons a lot of people don't do it; short version, it takes them away from things they'd simply rather be doing. In my own case, that's minding the BGS for my group's faction. If we were to be attacked, I'd sure as heck fight the Thargoids and repair stations... but while they don't concern my group's faction, they don't concern me. I mention this just coz there might be a particular bent to the later bits of my post... but what I'm trying to say is if someone's content doing activities in a particular location, what's their incentive to switch it up? Ultimately, there's two ways to do this:
- Incentivise even more... whether that's through credits, reputation, influence, anything; or
- Don't take the player away from their standard gameplay; make their standard gameplay support the repair of stations.
This suggestion's going to focus on the second point mostly, and a little on non-credit rewards (as tl;dr if the problem is credits, the answer is more credits)
So what's currently in place?
Well... when a system is going to be invaded, a bunch of NHSS pop up in it, and you need to kill an amount of Thargoids. Beyond that, you wouldn't know.[1]
Once a system is invaded, you get a few different aspects:
- A burning station, which you can run missions at
- An associated Rescue ship, which (should[2]) offer missions
- Defence ships, which also offer missions[2]
That said, as far as I know missions to kill Thargoids generally don't count, because they send you to different systems to kill thargoids. Only thargoid kills in the system help clear the incursion. That's a big problem.
Once the incursion is cleared, you have a station needing repairs.
- Station will offer missions, but these don't actually do anything.
- Only way to repair the station is to grind cargo-hauling for the station, for a fairly average profit.
A key, recurring theme here is the missions only spawn in the system in question, and have no effect on the progress of anything.
What the game already does for other aspects.
In reality, the BGS is much more reactive than this. For certain states, systems within =~ 20LY will react. This reaction looks like:
- Shipping food to factions in Famine
- Shipping medicine to factions in Outbreak
- Transporting security personnel to systems in Lockdown
- Shipping goods/sourcing goods to markets only where there is demand
- Missions target specific aspects of systems such as installations for scanning[3]/powerplant destruction/Megaship raids
etc.
Missions also affect targeted factions and the security/economic model of the game.
All that's really necessary to make a larger portion of the galaxy get involved without taking them away from their day-to-day is extending this to systems under Thargoid Influence, and making missions *actually count* towards their repairs, along with some suitable incentives.
What's that going to look like?
Well... currently we have 50-odd systems affected by Thargoids, and just over 20,000 occupied systems. So that's 0.0025% of the occupied galaxy affected by the Thargoid incursions. Your average system has =~ 40 systems within 20LY of it, 100-150 within 30LY. If other systems reacted to Thargoid related presence in the same way as they react to states in other systems, that's 2,000 systems which would be reacting to the Thargoid presence. That's 10% of the all occupied space! If we ramp it up to a 30LY range, on the presumption that Thargoids are a greater threat/opportunity than some rando faction in Outbreak, then we're looking at 5000-7500 systems... that's roughly 25-33% of the galaxy reacting to it!
Of course, the actual numbers would be a little lower... and remote regions like the Pleiades would have far less candidate systems, but that kinda makes sense, since that's pushing into Thargoid-occupied territory anyway. But the principle is still quite sound. Conversely, some systems would have way more neighbour systems reacting too.
To put my BGS hat on... if there's a station 20Ly away from my group's general area... I'm not going to haul random cargo to it when it's not going to support my faction. But if my faction, amongst the usual procedural offerings, is offering missions to deliver repair goods to a station, I'm going to do that because while it's ultimately helping repair that station, it helps my faction too. Likewise, any missions offered by my faction to go kill goids in another system, I might actually go do that now and then, especially if I can stack a couple for some good cash along the way. Of course, this relies on missions counting towards ending the incursion, or repairing the stations, but really, they should.
And now, a slight segue which isn't particularly core to this proposal, but it might add incentives for some players.
End of the day, I could live without those kind of rewards, as that'd also be a bunch of new mechanics and balancing and whatever. Just having other systems within a 20-30LY radius *recognise* the presence of Thargoids and offer relevant missions among the usual mission types to the target system, and making them *count*, would do leaps and bounds for bringing the galaxies reaction to the Thargoids alive.
[1] I could be very wrong on this. Happy to hear otherwise
[2] Last I checked, there's a bug where some are, some aren't offering missions. Same goes for defence ships
[3] Not all surface scan missions target procedurally generated mission targets, and will actually have the fixed, persistent bases as targets.
One of the oft-complained about things regarding the Thargoids is that the rest of the galaxy doesn't seem to care. More recently, the increased rate of station damage, while still fractional compared to the overall size of the human-populated bubble, is seeming like a losing grind-fest, where you fix one station, and three more damaged ones replace it in an endless cycle.
I've posted elsewhere about the reasons a lot of people don't do it; short version, it takes them away from things they'd simply rather be doing. In my own case, that's minding the BGS for my group's faction. If we were to be attacked, I'd sure as heck fight the Thargoids and repair stations... but while they don't concern my group's faction, they don't concern me. I mention this just coz there might be a particular bent to the later bits of my post... but what I'm trying to say is if someone's content doing activities in a particular location, what's their incentive to switch it up? Ultimately, there's two ways to do this:
- Incentivise even more... whether that's through credits, reputation, influence, anything; or
- Don't take the player away from their standard gameplay; make their standard gameplay support the repair of stations.
This suggestion's going to focus on the second point mostly, and a little on non-credit rewards (as tl;dr if the problem is credits, the answer is more credits)
So what's currently in place?
Well... when a system is going to be invaded, a bunch of NHSS pop up in it, and you need to kill an amount of Thargoids. Beyond that, you wouldn't know.[1]
Once a system is invaded, you get a few different aspects:
- A burning station, which you can run missions at
- An associated Rescue ship, which (should[2]) offer missions
- Defence ships, which also offer missions[2]
That said, as far as I know missions to kill Thargoids generally don't count, because they send you to different systems to kill thargoids. Only thargoid kills in the system help clear the incursion. That's a big problem.
Once the incursion is cleared, you have a station needing repairs.
- Station will offer missions, but these don't actually do anything.
- Only way to repair the station is to grind cargo-hauling for the station, for a fairly average profit.
A key, recurring theme here is the missions only spawn in the system in question, and have no effect on the progress of anything.
What the game already does for other aspects.
In reality, the BGS is much more reactive than this. For certain states, systems within =~ 20LY will react. This reaction looks like:
- Shipping food to factions in Famine
- Shipping medicine to factions in Outbreak
- Transporting security personnel to systems in Lockdown
- Shipping goods/sourcing goods to markets only where there is demand
- Missions target specific aspects of systems such as installations for scanning[3]/powerplant destruction/Megaship raids
etc.
Missions also affect targeted factions and the security/economic model of the game.
All that's really necessary to make a larger portion of the galaxy get involved without taking them away from their day-to-day is extending this to systems under Thargoid Influence, and making missions *actually count* towards their repairs, along with some suitable incentives.
What's that going to look like?
Well... currently we have 50-odd systems affected by Thargoids, and just over 20,000 occupied systems. So that's 0.0025% of the occupied galaxy affected by the Thargoid incursions. Your average system has =~ 40 systems within 20LY of it, 100-150 within 30LY. If other systems reacted to Thargoid related presence in the same way as they react to states in other systems, that's 2,000 systems which would be reacting to the Thargoid presence. That's 10% of the all occupied space! If we ramp it up to a 30LY range, on the presumption that Thargoids are a greater threat/opportunity than some rando faction in Outbreak, then we're looking at 5000-7500 systems... that's roughly 25-33% of the galaxy reacting to it!
Of course, the actual numbers would be a little lower... and remote regions like the Pleiades would have far less candidate systems, but that kinda makes sense, since that's pushing into Thargoid-occupied territory anyway. But the principle is still quite sound. Conversely, some systems would have way more neighbour systems reacting too.
To put my BGS hat on... if there's a station 20Ly away from my group's general area... I'm not going to haul random cargo to it when it's not going to support my faction. But if my faction, amongst the usual procedural offerings, is offering missions to deliver repair goods to a station, I'm going to do that because while it's ultimately helping repair that station, it helps my faction too. Likewise, any missions offered by my faction to go kill goids in another system, I might actually go do that now and then, especially if I can stack a couple for some good cash along the way. Of course, this relies on missions counting towards ending the incursion, or repairing the stations, but really, they should.
And now, a slight segue which isn't particularly core to this proposal, but it might add incentives for some players.
Conversely... we have a bunch of activities within the system, like rescue/salvage/source missions etc, or the general killing of Thargoids/pilots fed bonds etc.. Surely, rendering assistance in these situations curries favour with the representatives assisting. Towards that end, why not do the following:
- Have completed missions in that system related to the incursion/supplied repair cargoes which help repair the station, not only contribute to the usual influence effects in the target system (which is a bit weird anyway, since they're on a back-foot), but also have a faction-wide influence-increase effect if you belong to a squadron pledged to a faction. It shouldn't be 1:1 proportional, rather it should be very minor, maybe even 1% of typical influence gains... as this would be representative of the fact actually working directly at an affected station/system offers a very concentrated source of missions/cargo requirements.
- Likewise, if you're pledged to a Power... undertaking relevant activities could also earn a small volume of merits.
Those rewards seem tailored to a specific group of players...
Realistically... when it comes to PvE players in the bubble... they're going to be doing one of a couple things.
- Pottering around looking for random things to do
- Grinding credits/some other thing
- Working the BGS
Most players committed to helping out are already there, we don't need to convince them. Most freelancers won't be particularly bound to their location and may help out, but might get bored no matter what you do. Of course, they may need more credits to motivate them, but I already talked about monetary incentives. But the BGS or Powerplay players are committed to one thing: Furthering their own cause. To help out areas under Thargoid threat means taking them away from supporting their relevant faction/power. And realistically, these are also the players who are more inclined to be doing the activities like grinding missions/cargo routes etc. so the raw activity is fine, it's just a case of incentivising it.
- Have completed missions in that system related to the incursion/supplied repair cargoes which help repair the station, not only contribute to the usual influence effects in the target system (which is a bit weird anyway, since they're on a back-foot), but also have a faction-wide influence-increase effect if you belong to a squadron pledged to a faction. It shouldn't be 1:1 proportional, rather it should be very minor, maybe even 1% of typical influence gains... as this would be representative of the fact actually working directly at an affected station/system offers a very concentrated source of missions/cargo requirements.
- Likewise, if you're pledged to a Power... undertaking relevant activities could also earn a small volume of merits.
Those rewards seem tailored to a specific group of players...
Realistically... when it comes to PvE players in the bubble... they're going to be doing one of a couple things.
- Pottering around looking for random things to do
- Grinding credits/some other thing
- Working the BGS
Most players committed to helping out are already there, we don't need to convince them. Most freelancers won't be particularly bound to their location and may help out, but might get bored no matter what you do. Of course, they may need more credits to motivate them, but I already talked about monetary incentives. But the BGS or Powerplay players are committed to one thing: Furthering their own cause. To help out areas under Thargoid threat means taking them away from supporting their relevant faction/power. And realistically, these are also the players who are more inclined to be doing the activities like grinding missions/cargo routes etc. so the raw activity is fine, it's just a case of incentivising it.
End of the day, I could live without those kind of rewards, as that'd also be a bunch of new mechanics and balancing and whatever. Just having other systems within a 20-30LY radius *recognise* the presence of Thargoids and offer relevant missions among the usual mission types to the target system, and making them *count*, would do leaps and bounds for bringing the galaxies reaction to the Thargoids alive.
[1] I could be very wrong on this. Happy to hear otherwise
[2] Last I checked, there's a bug where some are, some aren't offering missions. Same goes for defence ships
[3] Not all surface scan missions target procedurally generated mission targets, and will actually have the fixed, persistent bases as targets.
