Malfunctions: increase in chance with engineering grade to reduce power creep

Pretty simple really: the higher you go, the higher the chance of failure.

Back long ago, ED had more severe malfunctions (rando firing weapons etc) which made life much more interesting when the sparks started flying. These have been toned down but I miss how they would make situations much more chaotic.

Now, with the introduction of engineering to me at least this is like taking your CPU and overclocking it- you take your i9 A grade module and push it incrementally upwards. But, should each step up come with the increased chance of a temporary glitch or two?

This then makes engineering on its own risky the more you push. In this way it acts as a brake on blanket G5 grades, makes lower grades an option and vanilla modules not a death sentence.

Examples:

OC powerplant: high grades allow many ships to be loaded with anything but with MRPs, shields etc being what they are the fragility is not often an issue, what would life be like if G5 had a 5% chance of random power delivery? It could go 50%, 70% or nothing for a few seconds. Would this make lower grade engineering more popular because it is more reliable? And if you don't care or want maximum powah you take the risk anyway (and occasionally get caught out?). Experimentals like double braced might then have stats to limit this failure rate as a bonus rather than monstered which might make it worse again).

Weapons: OC or SRB (i.e. massive increases in DPS)- should they have surges and misfires that take a second or so to clear?

Long range FSD: the higher the grade, the more chance of glitches that either reboot or delay the module when engaged? This would then put more emphasis on Guardian FSD boosters, neutron jumping / synthesis because the highest grade FSD engineering is on the edge of reliability (which again could be attenuated by experimental effects that mitigate failure instead of hitting mass manager or deep charge which might make things worse).

Dirty Drives: these are so good, everyone has them. But, according to the description these have all safeties removed. Ships are now stupidly fast- what if dirty drives occasionally stopped working? All that potential speed could also be lethal in a battle. Perhaps chain boost might lead to an inevitable stall. You might then offer clean drives which don't suffer from this with the penalty of lower speeds.

Sensors: at max G4 or at G5 they glitch (a bit like Thargoid / Lagrange cloud lightning interference) occasionally.

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Together these then make full on G5 ships proper 'hot rods' on the edge of performance but also reliability. It (to me anyway) is a sensible route to reducing the god status of G5 without taking it away because reliability becomes a factor. Its power is still there, it just comes at a price that sits outside MRPs, thick shields etc. I know its RNG, but it throws in a new factor that adds complexity to situations- a G5 big balls pirate might wind up with a powerplant glitch that allows the trader to escape or fight back, a duel between a G5 hot rod and a G3 ship would be more even... the G5 might win if all his systems work reliably with no misfires but the G3 guy knows that he can rely 100% on his ship and weapons. Over time it might lead to G5 being less common, and gently reign in the outright power creep we see.
 
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Great ideas, i would love to have this game waste even more of my time with RNG instead of just having every modules stats and blueprints reworked to something sensible so that the absolute chasm between pve and pvp builds may be reduced to just a gap
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Such a change would likely have significant consequences for players who may not have docked for a very long time (and don't plan to any time soon).
 
As far as I am aware, no changes have been made to module failure rates over the years. Anything below 80% results in a chance for a failure, the chance increases the lower the module gets to 1%

Personally not a fan of the suggestion, although I've always said modules above 80% should still have a minuscule chance of a failure, nothing is 100% reliable.

Edit - Obviously it is much easier to balance this stuff when it is a desktop sim simulating a real machine, get the manufacturer failure statistics and code it in, 4000 hours for an APU that hasn't been maintained properly etc etc. The problem with ED is how long does a CLass 7 FSD last for before a glitch? 1000 hours, 10,000 hours, time spent in SC? Engineering? It all just gets a bit messy because everyone will have their own opinion.

The current failure method works well, with pretty much zero complaints. Introducing non-damage related failures would need to be handled very very carefully. Otherwise, cue - My Thrusters failed for no reason 200m above a 9g planet during landing....
 
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One of the main reasons to armor or shield something is to reduce malfunction rate.

I'm not at all opposed to making Engineering less effective or increasing the costs for damaging/losing Engineered modules, but I'm not particularly keen on this idea.
Maybe if malfunctions were baked into the negative effects of some blueprints, that would be acceptable. Would also need to finally do away with legacy modules.

As far as I am aware, no changes have been made to module failure rates over the years. Anything below 80% results in a chance for a failure, the chance increases the lower the module gets to 1%

Personally not a fan of the suggestion, although I've always said modules above 80% should still have a minuscule chance of a failure, nothing is 100% reliable.

Lately I've been seeing the odd malfunction at well above 80%, even above 90% on occasion. I have a feeling it's a relatively recent bug, but more testing is needed.
 
Lately I've been seeing the odd malfunction at well above 80%, even above 90% on occasion. I have a feeling it's a relatively recent bug, but more testing is needed.

That should only happen during combat. I am talking about failures/glitches post-combat or severe damage, should only be happening below 80%, could be 85% I'll have to check my old notes.

Interesting if they have increased the amount, I haven't tried the latest beta.
 
I remember at launch, the bins for the Refinery could get damaged whilst they where being used.

Believe me, the malfunctions were frustrating as heck. That was removed within the first few updates.
It confused players and detracted from gameplay.
 
That should only happen during combat.

Is there always a chance for a malfunction when taking damage? I was under the impression that combat damage had to reach a certain threshold to induce malfunctions, unless there were malfunction effects at play.

Regardless, I'm fairly sure I've seen post-combat malfunctions with modules above the threshold.

And that bug where power distributor malfunctions give the same warning as power plant malfunctions is still around.

Interesting if they have increased the amount, I haven't tried the latest beta.

This was on live.
 
I don't have a strong opinion, except that

Long range FSD: the higher the grade, the more chance of glitches that either reboot or delay the module when engaged?

this would be super tedious feature in the lonely pleasure of exploring that is already more of a single player hobby.
 
this would be super tedious feature in the lonely pleasure of exploring that is already more of a single player hobby.

Perhaps it would make sense if it depended on what caused the damage, but at least these days Hull Seals can fix you up. Not that it wouldn't be GREAT but it's perhaps a bit more complicated to say that a bit of overheating now and then might not cause as many malfunctions as a bullet lodged in your FSD would.
 
Great ideas, i would love to have this game waste even more of my time with RNG instead of just having every modules stats and blueprints reworked to something sensible so that the absolute chasm between pve and pvp builds may be reduced to just a gap

But frankly thats impossible without reworking everything over again and knocking it all back- the genie is out of the bottle.

In short this idea makes extremes extreme- so if you risk G5 in certain overused blueprints you risk them rarely having a funny turn. This might make mid G4 and below more normal and reliable without drastic nerfs to everything.
 
Is there always a chance for a malfunction when taking damage? I was under the impression that combat damage had to reach a certain threshold to induce malfunctions, unless there were malfunction effects at play.

Regardless, I'm fairly sure I've seen post-combat malfunctions with modules above the threshold.

And that bug where power distributor malfunctions give the same warning as power plant malfunctions is still around.



This was on live.


Just checked through my notes from 2015, according to MB it should only happen when below 85%. I personally think it's a good thing if they raised the threshold. My rigs in peices, so I can't test it.
 
The current failure method works well, with pretty much zero complaints. Introducing non-damage related failures would need to be handled very very carefully. Otherwise, cue - My Thrusters failed for no reason 200m above a 9g planet during landing....

Thats the thing: if you go G5 dirty drive + drag with mad boosting then the chance of a glitch is raised. If you keep to a sensible (within the idea) level of engineering (G3 or G4 say) these malfunctions don't happen at all- and that other mods like clean drives never glitch out.

These malfunctions would only occur on certain G5 blueprints that push your ship to the max so to speak. You would then trade reliability for performance, and maybe these mods won't be as overused as frankly the downsides in them are all mitigated too easily.
 
These malfunctions would only occur on certain G5 blueprints that push your ship to the max so to speak. You would then trade reliability for performance, and maybe these mods won't be as overused as frankly the downsides in them are all mitigated too easily.

In an indirect way this does happen already because a lot of blueprints do affect the module's Integrity. I partly took the opening post to mean spontaneous malfunctions, not necessarily linked to damage. Would it make more sense to add spontaneous malfunctions to engineering special effects? So G5 is fairly safe .. G5 + SE is pushing the envelope. Special effects tend to be limited to weapons, so there's less link to explorers.

edit: you could extend that of course so special effect weapon might cause malfunction but not in that module, reverb cascade etc could affect your FSD because it causes a strange energy signature in the powerplant and etc.
 
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One of the main reasons to armor or shield something is to reduce malfunction rate.

The problem is you have G5 battleships with loads of armour, thick shields that will never see damage (outside of heat) to cause them to screw up- its too easy to mitigate the downsides and remain functional wrapped up.

I'm not at all opposed to making Engineering less effective or increasing the costs for damaging/losing Engineered modules, but I'm not particularly keen on this idea.
Maybe if malfunctions were baked into the negative effects of some blueprints, that would be acceptable. Would also need to finally do away with legacy modules.

What this idea really is for is to make certain G5 blueprints more unpredictable so it becomes a tier thats not 100% reliable- you can use them but they push the performance envelope into the red.
 
In an indirect way this does happen already because a lot of blueprints do affect the module's Integrity. I partly took the opening post to mean spontaneous malfunctions, not necessarily linked to damage. Would it make more sense to add spontaneous malfunctions to engineering special effects? So G5 is fairly safe .. G5 + SE is pushing the envelope.

The malfunctions would be spontaneous and limited to G5 on some mods, with a low chance of them happening. I had a similar thought with experimental effects too like that :D. The chance has to be outside damage thresholds (i.e. a base value baked into that blueprint) to make it random enough to make people think. It may never happen to you, or, it might happen once or twice to keep you on your toes.

In the end its a way to wean the game from seeing G5 dirty drives, mega lightweight sensors and supercharged weapons (not all mind) as being normal and 100% safe. If G4 is safe and G5 the crazy tier (IMO anyway) it would level things out without either a massive nerf (which would be hugely unpopular) or more power creep (which would distort things even more).
 
What this idea really is for is to make certain G5 blueprints more unpredictable so it becomes a tier thats not 100% reliable- you can use them but they push the performance envelope into the red.

I'm not entirely opposed to something like this, but I don't like not being informed of the relative downsides of something before spending my time on having my CMDR acquire it. A chance for malfunction that only shows up at G5 would mandate many extant G5 modules be remade at a lower grade to serve there purpose.

I don't think FDev would ever for it without either grandfathering all extant stuff, or buffing G5 module's positive effects further. They have proven exceedingly adverse to most nerfs and the last the game needs is another wave of legacy modules and buffs.

I think any positive change is unlikely, but the most likely ones would have to apply to everything, so they at least kept their relative appeal to each other. Targeting only the top-grade seems overly arbitrary.

it would level things out without either a massive nerf (which would be hugely unpopular)

All nerfs are unpopular, so the best nerfs are massive ones that achieve the desired end result in one blow.

Weaning people off of current heights would result in more total and much more protracted ill-will than just kicking them in the nuts and being done with it.
 
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