mamba and fdl -1 util slot

[H4iry 0range]

how about we remove 1 utility slot on the fer de lance and the mamba, mabye it could bring some balance , all i see in pvp is the meta ferdi , an its boring to be fair this game is all about experimenting and finding your own way , how about Fdev experiment a bit??

could stuff like this be tested in the future beta if we all wanted ?
personally i would love to participate in these kind of experiments!

your thoughts ?

 

[Morbad]

The Mamba isn't exactly overpowered and removing utility slots that are represented on the physical model of vessels wouldn't be my first suggestion to rein in the excessive popularity of the FDL.

I'd be more inclined to implement the 2.3.10 Beta's changes to shield booster stacking and revert the FDL to it's 1.4 performance and PP size.

Anyway, Frontier has always been adverse to 'nerfs', especially as time as gone on. They are far more likely to excaserbate all sorts of other problems by trying inflate other ships to match, if they can even be bothered to do anything.

 

[H4iry 0range]

the beta would be great to test stuff like this though won't it , if we as a community could agree on something ,i'm looking at this from the PVP side of the game and its just boring imo at the moment , 85% fdl's out there

 

[gorankar]

Keep the slots, but limit medium ships to 2-3 shield boosters, large to 4-6 boosters, and small to 1 booster. You can fill up the other slots with heat sinks, point defense, everything but more shield boosters. It would be less likely to break other ships, PvP and non PvP, than most other things Fdev could do.
This would have the effect of cutting the FDL's max absolute shield strength by a bit more (2 boosters), or a bit less (3 boosters) than half.
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 2 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 1702 Absolute.)
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 3 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 2210 Absolute.)
compared to:
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 6 x OA boosters, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 3732 Absolute.)

That would cut the length of PvP battles in half. It would have a similar effect to other common PvP ships, so the meta would not really change that much. Free up power for different weapon and engineering choices. Maybe could go with a reinforced rather than overcharged and cut heat a bit while toughening up the PP.

You could do the same for SCB's 2 for large 1 for medium and small.

 

[VirtueXOI]

2.3.10 Beta's changes to shield booster

was it an older version or are we going to see that soon ?

Keep the slots, but limit medium ships to 2-3 shield boosters, large to 4-6 boosters, and small to 1 booster. You can fill up the other slots with heat sinks, point defense, everything but more shield boosters. It would be less likely to break other ships, PvP and non PvP, than most other things Fdev could do.
This would have the effect of cutting the FDL's max absolute shield strength by a bit more (2 boosters), or a bit less (3 boosters) than half.
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 2 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 1702 Absolute.)
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 3 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 2210 Absolute.)
compared to:
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 6 x OA boosters, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 3732 Absolute.)

That would cut the length of PvP battles in half. It would have a similar effect to other common PvP ships, so the meta would not really change that much. Free up power for different weapon and engineering choices. Maybe could go with a reinforced rather than overcharged and cut heat a bit while toughening up the PP.

You could do the same for SCB's 2 for large 1 for medium and small.

Would'nt that make hulltank way to strong in any situation ? nerf mrp/hrp too then no ?

 

[Morbad]

Keep the slots, but limit medium ships to 2-3 shield boosters, large to 4-6 boosters, and small to 1 booster.

I'm much more in favor of diminishing returns than arbitrary hard limits.

was it an older version or are we going to see that soon ?

There were proposed changes a while back, that we got to test in a beta, that never went though.

I don't expect them to be brought back, but couldn't rule it out.

Would'nt that make hulltank way to strong in any situation ?

No.

 

[H4iry 0range]

i still think -1 util slot is the easyest to implement, and would bring some balance

 

[RamirezKurita]

As much as nerfing the Mamba and FDL seem tempting, FD's recent design decisions (such as the addition of the Krait MkII and the Mamba itself, plus the Mamba being heavily buffed during its beta) would suggest that the FDL is in the "right spot" in terms of what FD wants a medium ship to be capable of. Sounds dumb, particularly considering how the little FDL outclasses even many of the large ships in terms of performance in combat, but there you go.

With that in mind, I guess the question is how do you buff the FDL's main competitors that have since fallen by the wayside? As far as I am aware, the Krait MkII isn't super far off the FDL in terms of combat performance, it probably only needs minor buffs to its general stats; but the poor Python has been a serious victim of power creep over time and is in dire need of some buffs to its combat potential to bring it back as a realistic competitor.

 

[VirtueXOI]

As much as nerfing the Mamba and FDL seem tempting, FD's recent design decisions (such as the addition of the Krait MkII and the Mamba itself, plus the Mamba being heavily buffed during its beta) would suggest that the FDL is in the "right spot" in terms of what FD wants a medium ship to be capable of. Sounds dumb, particularly considering how the little FDL outclasses even many of the large ships in terms of performance in combat, but there you go.

With that in mind, I guess the question is how do you buff the FDL's main competitors that have since fallen by the wayside? As far as I am aware, the Krait MkII isn't super far off the FDL in terms of combat performance, it probably only needs minor buffs to its general stats; but the poor Python has been a serious victim of power creep over time and is in dire need of some buffs to its combat potential to bring it back as a realistic competitor.

By doing this you'r only considering combat part , python is an excellent all rounder , and i'v seen some SCB build that tank more than a cutter ..
If you consider PVE I dont know if FDL / Mamba are this strong compared to other ships.

 

[RamirezKurita]

By doing this you'r only considering combat part , python is an excellent all rounder , and i'v seen some SCB build that tank more than a cutter ..
If you consider PVE I dont know if FDL / Mamba are this strong compared to other ships.

It's also 50% or so more expensive once outfitting is complete due to larger internal modules. Even if they were equal in combat, the FDL would still have the advantage of cost efficiency as well as offering a radically different combat style.

As it currently stands, the Krait, FDL and Mamba have relegated the poor Python into just being an overpriced freighter that is only used by virtue of not having any competing freighters that max out a medium landing pad, rather than being a functioning multirole in the high-end medium category. There's no real justification to use the Python in a combat role at the moment as the extra cost of outfitting it for combat rather than freight costs about as much as buying a fully equipped FDL to use for combat and keeping the Python for freight.

 

[Bigmaec]

Keep the slots, but limit medium ships to 2-3 shield boosters, large to 4-6 boosters, and small to 1 booster. You can fill up the other slots with heat sinks, point defense, everything but more shield boosters. It would be less likely to break other ships, PvP and non PvP, than most other things Fdev could do.
This would have the effect of cutting the FDL's max absolute shield strength by a bit more (2 boosters), or a bit less (3 boosters) than half.
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 2 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 1702 Absolute.)
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 3 x OA booster, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 2210 Absolute.)
compared to:
(1 x 6A shield generator, g5 reinforced, high cap + 6 x OA boosters, g5 heavy duty, Hi-Cap= 3732 Absolute.)

That would cut the length of PvP battles in half. It would have a similar effect to other common PvP ships, so the meta would not really change that much. Free up power for different weapon and engineering choices. Maybe could go with a reinforced rather than overcharged and cut heat a bit while toughening up the PP.

You could do the same for SCB's 2 for large 1 for medium and small.

One, the fdl has only a size 5 optional,
and two: nerfing/restricting booster slots on all ships will result in more vulnerable trade ships.
We need a complete balance pass or single out some glaring issues (like the pp on the FdL).

 

[SergMx]

One, the fdl has only a size 5 optional,
and two: nerfing/restricting booster slots on all ships will result in more vulnerable trade ships.
We need a complete balance pass or single out some glaring issues (like the pp on the FdL).

If you accept that warships have a more powerful shield, it is not quite clear what principle determines the number of slots utility.

 

[gorankar]

One, the fdl has only a size 5 optional,
and two: nerfing/restricting booster slots on all ships will result in more vulnerable trade ships.
We need a complete balance pass or single out some glaring issues (like the pp on the FdL).

I did mistype the shield size, sorry about that, but the other numbers are correct but for a 5A shield.
Do most traders fill their utility mounts with shield boosters? I don't, perhaps others do though, I can't speak for them I suppose. On my trade Python I use 2 shield boosters, and 2 point defense, since FSD interupt missiles can really ruin your day, and point defense really ruins the day of hatch breaker limpets.
It was only a thought really. Fdev is not going to do any of it. But academic discussions are fun sometimes. The best bet for engineering was to stop it at around G2-3 levels for most weapons and defensive equipment from the very start. But it's a bit late for that. I know I would scream bloody murder if my G5 FSD engineering was ever nerfed to G2-3 levels, so I can't expect people that like their G5 weapons/defensive equipment would feel any different.

 

[SergMx]

I've been making suggestions for a long time not to put shield amplifiers in the slots utility. It's about moving them to normal slots. I mean, if you're a freighter, you're a freighter,
if it's combat, it's all combat.

And then there was the Guardian Shield Booster