Powerplay Maybe it's time to kill powerplay... to see it reborn after.

[JessieColt]

During the Beta for PP the rating system was nearly identical to the community goal one.
Only the top 10 players in each faction got the rating 5 bonus, rating 3 was only for the top 50% of players in that faction.
And the merits were just for that week.

This caused a large amount of "feedback" from beta players, most of whom also said they didn't like the idea of PP and wouldn't play.
FDev listened to these people, who probably never ended up playing PP, and removed the top % requirements and put in the flat merits needed, and also implemented the current merit decay system, allowing previous weeks work to count for the current weeks.

So FDevs original plan was what you are suggesting, which I also think is a much better system.

*edit, there were also 0 credits rewards for PP.

Ah! Unfortunately, I missed the original beta, so was not around for how things were before they were implemented.

But watching the way Community Goals work and how PP works, it just seems, more common sense, I guess, to have PP using the same system.

The Community Goals way of doing things would seem to allow more casual players the chance to compete and because they would get rewards based on their personal contribution boosted by contributions for the entire cycle because of the combined effort, they might be more inclined to participate.

Under the current system, you spend hours a cycle, for minimal gain, that is half lost when the cycle turns over and starts again.

 

[Calrissian]

I think it needs such a drastic rework to engage players and reduce the burden to fun levels that they should pause it for the time being.

Have a review, make tweaks and changes and then start it, possibly with a reset.

Yes! I for one am tired of looking at Mahon's face in first place while the Imperials do next to nothing with an Emperor faction that's seemingly content with a "Participation Medal." :-/

 

[Ben Ryder]

As we all can see the powerplay is currently broken, but I must admit that even when it's not it has many flaws, expecially the "ethos" is cause of many inconsistencies in the administration of the BGS (for example, Zachary Hudson players that must push over mostly non-federation minor factions).

I would like to try and talk about this with all cmdrs from different powers, and try to elaborate a different mechanic to make the powerplay more than just the senseless grindfest that it is now, something more fun to play, expecially something that would let the cmdrs shape the Galaxy in a more consistent way.

Let's start analyzing the different Superpowers, Powers and the Governments possible to them.

FEDERATION

GOVERNMENTS
Anarchy - Cooperative - Theocracy - Corporate - Democracy - Confederacy

POWERS
ZACHARY HUDSON
Expansion & Control strong against Feudal & Patronage, weak against Dictatorship

FELICIA WINTERS
Expansion & Control strong against Corporate, weak against Communist, Cooperative, Feudal & Patronage

EMPIRE

GOVERNMENTS
Prison Colony - Anarchy - Feudal - Dictatorship - Corporate - Patronage

POWERS
A. LAVIGNY DUVAL
Expansion & Control strong with Feudal & Patronage, weak against Dictatorship

ZEMINA TORVAL
Expansion strong against Corporate, weak against Communist, Cooperative, Feudal & Patronage
Control strong against Feudal, Dictatorship, Communist & Cooperative, weak against Democracy

AISLING DUVAL
Expansion strong against Corporate, weak against Communist, Cooperative, Feudal & Patronage
Control strong against Communist, Cooperative & Confederacy, weak against Feudal, Prison Colony & Theocracy

DENTON PATREUS
Expansion & Control strong against Feudal & Patronage, weak against Dictatorship

ALLIANCE

GOVERNMENTS
Anarchy - Feudal - Cooperative - Theocracy - Communism - Dictatorship - Corporate - Patronage - Democracy - Confederacy

POWER
EDMUND MAHON
Expansion & Control strong against Corporate, weak against Communist, Cooperative, Feudal & Patronage

THE INDEPENDENTS

GOVERNMENTS
Prison Colony - Anarchy - Feudal - Cooperative - Theocracy - Communism - Dictatorship - Corporate - Patronage - Democracy - Confederacy

POWERS
ARCHON DELAINE
Expansion strong against Feudal & Patronage, weak against Dictatorship
Control strong against Communist, Cooperative & Confederacy, weak against Feudal, Prison Colony & Theocracy

LI YONG-RUI
Expansion & Control strong against Corporate, weak against Communist, Cooperative, Feudal & Patronage

PRANAV ANTAL
Expansion strong against Communist, Cooperative & Confederacy, weak against Feudal, Prison Colony & Theocracy
Control strong against Feudal, Dictatorship, Communist & Cooperative, weak against Democracy

YURI GROM
Expansion strong against Feudal & Patronage, weak against Dictatorship
Control strong against Feudal, Dictatorship, Communist & Cooperative, weak against Democracy

-----

ETHOS & BGS

First thing you can see is that Zachar Hudson has great issues with the Federation itself: a well played Hudson BGS bubble will be a not Federal one. Moreover, many powers have issues with factions during expansion, but are favoured by them for control... another flaw.

The only conclusion is to drop all the ethos system, it simply doesn't work, even the very difference between the expansion & control is flawed by itself, it simply doesn't make any sense that some Minor Factions should be happy to be controlled after opposing to be conquered. Am I right?

A good system would be to have some desirable government, most neutral governments, and some undesirable to every single power, but I think that not only the government should be a variable in this, the superpower alligeance should be important too. This should apply on both expansion & control.

Let's make an example.

Zachary Hudson is the President of the Federation. He's a strong and military aggressive right-wing guy. Theocracy & Corporate minor factions should be happy to be under his influence, because for them this should mean much more security in their home systems, the other Federal governments should be neutral to him, most of the independents should be too (with some exceptions), different story about the Empire and Alliance minor factions, which should oppose strongly to him.

So every single power should have unique desirable, neutral and undesirable minor factions concerning their superpower and government, it would be similar to how it is now with the ethos, similar but better.

TRIGGERS

The actual system is a all-or-nothing thing, with just a normal, a doubled and a halved trigger: I think that a more "fluid" system should be better, with a maximum and a minimum trigger, and the actual trigger for the week calculated on the number of neutral, desirable and undesirable minor factions ruling the control & exploited systems. Every change of Government should reflect on a slightly change in the fortification/undermine triggers.

CONTSTED SYSTEMS

Right now these systems simply doesn't count. I think it would be interesting if these systems should be given to the power with the most desirable government. A contested system between Zachary Hudson e A- Lavigny-Duval should be assigned to Hudson if the controlling Minor Faction is a Federal one, or to Lavigny-Duval if a Empire minor faction is in control.

...AND FINALLY... A RESET.

These changes would mean a total re-think of all the Powerplay, considering that the Powerplay seems so broken right now, it would be a good idea to simply restart at all, with all the 11 powers, I know that many cmdrs have played it a lot, but I think that any of us would benefit to a better powerplay, with better mechanics, better interaction with the BGS.

What do you think about this?

The Powers are characters not stereo typed and overtly obvious methods to spread a certain type of super power government. They are in it for themselves. They gain influence over areas in space by have power over government types. For instance Hudson is not Mr Happy Clappy Democray. He uses militarty and federal agents to do his bidding and strong arm security for his own ends under the cloak of the Federation propaganda stuffs. He takes security from non aligned factions and add it to his own fed systems that he influences. He finds this easiest in independent systems that are run by independent faction like Feudal and Patronages because they are aligned with that kind of behavior. He's weak against dictatorships because they overtly resist his influences. Ethos is basically the mode of operation a power personality uses to spread their personal influence. He is a bit of a self interested war lord type not a happy go luck democrat waving the flag for the federation and democracy.

All the powers are similar in the sense that they are individual people with their own personal agendas and methods of gaining influence.

It would be terirbel if all the powers of a particular type became one dimensional stereotypes with the same behaviors, agenda, methods and goal.

The current way ethos works is just great because it reflect the individual personality behind the pwoer. Folk often get confused by their powers ethos becuase they are think that they should power put the super power first. It doens't wortk that way. It puts the personality first and that is splendid. Ethos works great and makes for interesting Power personalities.

Anyway , I just rattled that out so it might not get my point accross too well

eg

Hudson is primarily interested in Hudson and teh Federation badge is just for show and a way to draw support.

That was just using Hudson as an example and the same can be shown and said about any of the powers. Its politics with personalities.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I'm sorry, but I think that having just 4 ethos equal to all the powers is stereotypal and one dimensional (well, four dimensional maybe?). In fact there are tons of inconsistencies, the Hudson thing against the Federation is just one of them. (We have powers that are favoured by certain governemnts in expansion and opposed by the same ones in control, come on, that's just non sense).

What I'm saying is exactly the opposite: every single power should have unique rules on how they expand to a new territory, how they control that territory, and the superpower alignment should be a strong variable in this. Every independent power should have his unique set of rules too, it's not obvious that a superpower should be strongly against an independent power, I think that every Corporate Minor Faction shouldn't have any problem with Li Yong-Rui (for example), but they should against Archon Delaine and Yuri Grom (for example), for different reasons, but they should.

Look at the evidence, the situation right now. Powerplay feels like a totally different game inside Elite Dangerous, something like a strange appendix, and the Galaxy isn't shaped as it should be at all by the powerplay itself. The problem is real and evident, maybe it's less evident for certain powers, but anybody who loves this game should think about it not from his power's point of view, but from a fair and rational one.

There's no way at all to justify that Zachary Hudson guys have to oppose to the Federation itself (or as I can see, that the Aisling Duval guys have to oppose the Empire), come on. That's just wrong.

 

[Calrissian]

IMO, PowerPlay should have had more "military action" in the taking of territory than propaganda. I'm sure that with the Federation having a Dropship and the Imperials a Clipper (Fast supply ship) that this was the initial plan but somehow it went all wrong and was replaced with the current system.

If they do revamp PowerPlay and I really hope they do, I really would like for them to implement a deployment system to conquer territory and assets.

If they don't, then I hope the upcoming Aliens bring war to teardown and rebuild. Starting with the Alliance. There has been way to much Imperial vs Federation events going on which is another reason PowerPlay is in the state it's in IMO.

 

[Ben Ryder]

We have powers that are favoured by certain governemnts in expansion and opposed by the same ones in control, come on, that's just non sense

I gethweer you are coming from but it'snot nonsense. Just for example; it miht be easy to take over a system that is feudal for a power but keeping contrl of it might be hard work. Snatch a hot coal out of the fire aint so hard but holding on to it is tough kinda thing.

"First thing you can see is that Zachar Hudson has great issues with the Federation itself: a well played Hudson BGS bubble will be a not Federal one. Moreover, many powers have issues with factions during expansion, but are favoured by them for control... another flaw."

This is not a flaw. This is Hudson and how he gains personal influence and power for his own ends. He is not the Federation. HE is not the embodiement of teh fedearion. He's a playa just like the rest.

Power play is primarily about the characters not the superpowers. The super powers are just a soap box for the character to stand on to gain personal influence. If you get past stuff like Hudson = Federation you'll see what I mean. Hudson is dong stuff for Hudson. They are all in it to spread their own influence in their own way for their own agendas.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Ben this would be absolutely right... if Hudson wouldn't be the PRESIDENT of the ' Federation. The Federation has different Military-like governments that would work quite right, the real thing is that this "ethos" thing is simply poorly thought and it's totally unbalanced.

And: a great part of the powerplay is the BGS, it's one of the key tactiques to be able to defend successfully a power's dominions, but we have Hudson pledged/Federation pledged players who are forced to play against the Federation itself. You can find any way to justify this, but all I see here is clutching at straws.

That's a simplistic way, with many flaws and inconcistencies.

"Hudson is the President of the Federation against the Federation itself because he's a *bad guy* " it's not an explanation, it's the problem.

(Everything the same for the Aisling Duval guys).

I'm asking for unique rules for every power. That's a much more variability than the situation as it is right now (that favoured balance above lore, apparently)

 

[fergal]

There's no way at all to justify that Zachary Hudson guys have to oppose to the Federation itself (or as I can see, that the Aisling Duval guys have to oppose the Empire), come on. That's just wrong.

The problem is the interpretation of the "strong against" fortification governments.
Winter, Mahon, Sirius, ALD and Patreus are strong against government that you could say are the same as them.
The other powers don't line up with their strong against types, I've just assumed Delaine is strong against Communists because they are cowards and are afraid of being enslaved, so they fall in line.

But that's not true, they are just a difficulty level implemented on different powers.

Democracy is the most popular government type, none of the powers have this because it would have made any non Imperial power too strong (not so much democracy in the empire)

Corporations are the second most popular, Mahon, Winters and Sirius have it easier, Feudals and Patronage are all over the Empire, which also makes ALD and Patreus have it easier too.

I'm sure one of the reasons Delaine isn't strong with Dictatorships or Anarchies is because it would have made his fortifications much easier, since his part of the galaxy is full of those 2 types.

And Aisling has the worst of any power, its the same 3 types as Delaine (go figure) but Confederacies, Cooperatives and Communist governments don't even exist in the Empire.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Ben this would be absolutely right... if Hudson wouldn't be the PRESIDENT of the ' Federation.

Just because he's the president doesn't mean he suddenly loses his own personality and his own self interest and agenda or do what is 'right' for the citizens. Take a look at real life. No need for Caps. I was using Hudson as an example, Could just have easily used any other of the power play personalities.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Ok, I would avoid the "real life" discussion but ok, let's try.

Let's make a real life example. An historical one too, if you like. We could try with the colonialism historical period. Because we have SO MANY different examples in history of colonial empires that did not try to hegemonize their dominions, with culture, politics, economics.

No, I can't see any of them, like, in Quebec they do not still speak french, or in the whole north africa too, or in India they don't speak english, right? Power means control, and control is best gained imposing your culture.

So, yeah, let's make some examples, because this all thing of the "I don't think that's strange that Hudson and Duval have to oppose their respective Superpowers aka Cultures" is truly getting ridicuolus.

And do not forget that they have an influence on the BGS too, so: or the Powerplay is totally disconnected to the BGS, or you have to make it right and make at least these Powers compatible with their respective Superpowers.

It is just flawed, and sincerly I'm surprised that at least Hudson and Duval supporters did not mention that when PP was introduced in beta. I started playing the game a couple of months later and, as many newbie players do, I simply ignored Powerplay for months because the first opinion anybody has of powerplay is of something useless and alien to the game and that's the REAL problem in PP, not the whinings about its not profitable nature, dammit, any Alliance/Empire/Federation symphatizer should be happy to chose one of the powers, and every independent CMDR should find intriguing to play for one of them. All this "they're just characters completely disconnected with the real politics behind it" will be the death of PP in the long term.

 

[Ray "Stingray" Robertson]

I like your suggestion on triggers. I actually suggested similar in the suggestion subforum awhile back.

I even went a bit further and suggested that the population of each system should also be used in the calculation.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

Some ideas on how to revamp power play in a way that might make sense:

[video=youtube_share;xo-1M9fZirA]https://youtu.be/xo-1M9fZirA[/video]

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I like your suggestion on triggers. I actually suggested similar in the suggestion subforum awhile back.

I even went a bit further and suggested that the population of each system should also be used in the calculation.

I like the population thing, easiest way to calculate may be with CC for every system (it's basically the same)

 

[ever]

It is a managerial decision to improve parts of the games, that are "being used" by a large number of people. This "philosophy" will brake any game. Combat has received much attention, because people fight. Why they do that? Because it is entertaining. The one aspect that would really improve combat and all aspects of the game, is reason. To have reasons to fight, trade, explore. To have nexuses where people gather, to do those things together or to compete against each other. And those points of interest should have ideally purpose from a player's point of view. Not infused with some story-purpose from above. The cycle based PP at a large scale, with relatively few points of interest, by comparison with the bgs, but more, by comparison with CZ, offers theoretically just this thing. But it is designed to be a subsystem of a subsystem and not what the name is saying Power Play - that is a euphemism.

Elite Dangerous resembles from my point of view a beautiful person, who has nothing to say. For the purpose of making a joke, I'd say Elite is blonde.

 

[fergal]

It is a managerial decision to improve parts of the games, that are "being used" by a large number of people. This "philosophy" will brake any game. Combat has received much attention, because people fight. Why they do that? Because it is entertaining. The one aspect that would really improve combat and all aspects of the game, is reason. To have reasons to fight, trade, explore. To have nexuses where people gather, to do those things together or to compete against each other. And those points of interest should have ideally purpose from a player's point of view. Not infused with some story-purpose from above. The cycle based PP at a large scale, with relatively few points of interest, by comparison with the bgs, but more, by comparison with CZ, offers theoretically just this thing. But it is designed to be a subsystem of a subsystem and not what the name is saying Power Play - that is a euphemism.

Elite Dangerous resembles from my point of view a beautiful person, who has nothing to say. For the purpose of making a joke, I'd say Elite is blonde.

It does seem like FDev does market research by releasing a bare bones feature, and then based upon the popularity of this "market research" they decide to add to the feature so its implemented more fully.

Maybe they should do traditional market research before developing features the majority of the community don't seem to want, like PP, CQC, engineers, multicrew, guardians (still have no idea what that was), etc.

 

[AgamemnonWhen]

Maybe they should do traditional market research

That's crazy talk! Where are they going to find an active, vocal community of people with strong opinions on the topic?

 

[withnail]

Could, you know, put some content in for us to interact with.