Mega Ships for player faction.

[Xender]

Mega Ships looks like promising concept however it may be wasted if this will work like just another type of station. The best opportunity for it is giving it to player factions/groups.

Players need to have really big bag of money to buy one but just think how funny it may be to acquire one?!
First players need to rent dry dock for billions. Than they need to collect at this dock special commodities, minerals, data and materials. It may work like faction community goal.
When Mega Ship is ready the Group Leader may control it over enhanced galaxy and system map interface. He may select where mega ship will jump and where mega ship will orbit.

This kind of ship should offer basic facilities typical to outposts. Of course it should be configurable and upgradable. Maybe it will be nice if Frontier can introduce some player driven human-to-human economy.

What is the most interesting concept is using Mega Ship for influencing BGS. When you jump in in the ship into enemy faction system you can initiate War State in system because your faction appear in system. Then your Mega Ship spawns CZs etc. Opposing faction my win against you typically by working with BGS or they may attack your mega ship. They goal is to collapse Mega Shield, if that happen the Mega Ship automatically started emergency jump and War State stops. After that, ship cannot start War again for one week because systems need to be repaired.

This will allow for very interesting politics gameplay, it will also add to the game player bases which are not tied to any specific location. It is also impossible to destroy Mega Ship (Elite is casual game and hardcore mechanics from EVE wont work with it).

 

[Tryst]

Mega Ships looks like promising concept however it may be wasted if this will work like just another type of station. The best opportunity for it is giving it to player factions/groups.

That completely excludes solo players and small groups of players who have paid exactly the same amount of cash for the game as you have. If you want such mega ships to become available to player factions/groups, those players should have to pay extra for the DLC content for it. But now you're stepping into the realm of P2Win so, those with the DLC should be excluded from the existing open play onto an open play instance of their own, (since their mega ship is going to be far more powerful than the ships anyone else has if they haven't paid for that DLC).

If it's available, it's available to EVERYONE! Solo, small groups and large groups alike if they have the money to fund it.

 

[Xender]

Well Solo mode also exclude open players. CQC excludes those who dont like pvp... Cannot create features which satisfy everyone, however Frontier should focus each time on different group and provide different content. Making everything accessible for everyone produce shallow content. Barriers exist for one reason - to break them. Because of that players progress in games, achieve new things etc. Solo player just don't need to have Mega Ship because they play solo, it is quite logic and simple. It is also should be understandable by you that small groups should have smaller influence than larger groups.

It is biggest problem Elite - it try to satisfy both type of players single and multiplayers but needs of both groups are different. This clash produce shallow and empty content.

 

[Tryst]

Well Solo mode also exclude open players. CQC excludes those who dont like pvp... Cannot create features which satisfy everyone, however Frontier should focus each time on different group and provide different content. Making everything accessible for everyone produce shallow content. Barriers exist for one reason - to break them. Because of that players progress in games, achieve new things etc. Solo player just don't need to have Mega Ship because they play solo, it is quite logic and simple. It is also should be understandable by you that small groups should have smaller influence than larger groups.

It is biggest problem Elite - it try to satisfy both type of players single and multiplayers but needs of both groups are different. This clash produce shallow and empty content.

I would go into figures but I doubt you'd understand them anyway. Suffice to say that every game company that has created content that excludes one group or another has ended up alienating the group that doesn't have it. On more than one occasion, this has killed the game completely by players leaving.

It does not produce shallow content if thought is put into it, what creates shallow content is when things like engineers are thrown in with little or no thought as to how a trader is going to get a high combat rank to unlock a given engineer. Chances are they are not interested in what that engineer has to offer, they want the upgrades from the one he introduces them to. Marco Qwent being a prime example to get to Palin, a trader or explorer has to grind missions or become a bounty hunter to gain rep to get Sirius unlocked and get the invite to Qwent.

Those mega ships (cap ships) could be useful to everyone if they are done right. If you can dock another ship on it, (up to medium pad) and it has a decent jump range, they can be used as mobile bases for exploration. You can't dock it anywhere but you could load and unload cargo with the smaller ship that can dock on it which makes trading with it useful too. Bounty hunters in remote systems could use it to refuel and restock ammo etc, saving themselves several jumps to the nearest station. You could even add cap ship missions to the mission board that use their services as you described, you services are paid for by a NPC faction looking to disrupt a neighbouring system with a view to take over. If a solo player has the cash and the time to transport the mats required, what's to stop them buying and using a cap ship themselves for these purposes? Such things add content for everyone and the price means there's a new goal to aim for. It doesn't have to be armed to the teeth, it can be only as well armed as a Corvette or Cutter, it's primary power is in the shields which, as you say, must be taken down for it to be removed from the CZ.

Also, you have to consider that, for a small group of players only, it's not worth FD's time to develop it. Why spend weeks or months developing something that only 10% of players across several groups at most are ever going to use? Especially when, for the next few weeks, they are going to be deluged with complaints from those who can't use it, despite having paid for that content as well.

 

[Xender]

I would go into figures but I doubt you'd understand them anyway. Suffice to say that every game company that has created content that excludes one group or another has ended up alienating the group that doesn't have it. On more than one occasion, this has killed the game completely by players leaving.

It does not produce shallow content if thought is put into it, what creates shallow content is when things like engineers are thrown in with little or no thought as to how a trader is going to get a high combat rank to unlock a given engineer. Chances are they are not interested in what that engineer has to offer, they want the upgrades from the one he introduces them to. Marco Qwent being a prime example to get to Palin, a trader or explorer has to grind missions or become a bounty hunter to gain rep to get Sirius unlocked and get the invite to Qwent.

Those mega ships (cap ships) could be useful to everyone if they are done right. If you can dock another ship on it, (up to medium pad) and it has a decent jump range, they can be used as mobile bases for exploration. You can't dock it anywhere but you could load and unload cargo with the smaller ship that can dock on it which makes trading with it useful too. Bounty hunters in remote systems could use it to refuel and restock ammo etc, saving themselves several jumps to the nearest station. You could even add cap ship missions to the mission board that use their services as you described, you services are paid for by a NPC faction looking to disrupt a neighbouring system with a view to take over. If a solo player has the cash and the time to transport the mats required, what's to stop them buying and using a cap ship themselves for these purposes? Such things add content for everyone and the price means there's a new goal to aim for. It doesn't have to be armed to the teeth, it can be only as well armed as a Corvette or Cutter, it's primary power is in the shields which, as you say, must be taken down for it to be removed from the CZ.

Also, you have to consider that, for a small group of players only, it's not worth FD's time to develop it. Why spend weeks or months developing something that only 10% of players across several groups at most are ever going to use? Especially when, for the next few weeks, they are going to be deluged with complaints from those who can't use it, despite having paid for that content as well.

Your opinions are extremely biased toward PVE gameplay and still you trying to convince me that your are concerned about that the content should be "for everyone". You should consider it from other side, PVP or competitive players also are forced to do non combat activities like trading or exploration in order to access certain engineers. Always there is a content which wont satisfy everyone. In typical mmo for example you have dungeons for PVE players and Battlegrounds for PVP players, still PVP community need to "grind" dungeons to collect equipment. Trying to satisfy all at once is impossible and claiming that PVE noncompetitive content satisfy all even PVP players is wrong because it wont. Frontier should think about all player groups and play styles - sometime new content can work for both groups (multicrew for example) some other wont satisfy all at once (Some kind of PVP territory control, passenger missions, Formidine Rift mystery or Guaridans). You are extremely biased toward your way of playing and this is arrogant that you are thinking that your imaginations will suits everyone. At least I am honest and my statements and concepts clearly shows who is the target. I also refusing to judge players who are minority and who is not.

 

[Tryst]

You are extremely biased toward your way of playing and this is arrogant that you are thinking that your imaginations will suits everyone.

And yours are not I suppose. That's arrogance in itself.

I am simply pointing out that such things do not need to be limited to one play style, that all play styles could benefit from it in one form or another. I am most certainly NOT considering just my own play style since I detest exploration, I am not much for combat either but I explained how both those professions COULD benefit as well as traders. My example of Qwent and Palin was drawn from my own experience however, as you say, other players are forced to do things they don't want either which was exactly my point. Whether you do these things in Open, Group or Solo makes no difference so the PVE/PVP argument has no grounds.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

It would be a pretty bad idea to make something this OP purchasable. It would also require the creation of a clan / guild / faction system (something I have already put in for, for different reasons) which is nowhere near the title as yet.

Also, as has been pointed out, this would restrict a lot of smaller player groups, which is never something you want to do. Could we afford one, sure (as a faction we have billions and billions between us) but that would mean moving what is essentially a PBSF Station into another system.

It would be a logistical nightmare, development wise, as well as putting off a whole load of player groups (in my opinion)

 

[Xender]

It would be a pretty bad idea to make something this OP purchasable. It would also require the creation of a clan / guild / faction system (something I have already put in for, for different reasons) which is nowhere near the title as yet.

Also, as has been pointed out, this would restrict a lot of smaller player groups, which is never something you want to do. Could we afford one, sure (as a faction we have billions and billions between us) but that would mean moving what is essentially a PBSF Station into another system.

It would be a logistical nightmare, development wise, as well as putting off a whole load of player groups (in my opinion)

Well, it is possible to introduce Mega Ships in different variants, size, scale and price.
What I propose it is only a concept...

In my opinion this is nothing wrong with it that small factions con not buy Mega Ship because it is too expensive. World, universe and galaxy is not a fair place. The important thing is to give everyone the same tools and let them earn for it.
This problem is similar to player with small amount of time - he can't grind enough to buy Federal Corvette and this is not pad, this is fair that expensive content require resources. EVE EVE EVE.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

The main difference is that this is a video game and it should be fun for all of those who play it. Sure people who've played for longer should be able to upgrade and work towards something, but NOT something as OP as a Mega-Ship (whatever the size variant you are meaning is)

 

[Xender]

I can't understand why Mega Ship is considered by you as OP. I someone is lone casual player it wont influence him at all. He will play with his friend, small player group or whatever. From the other hand, big players groups may use it as warfare tool in politics and territory control. Additional smaller groups may sing treaty with those larger, they will receive access to protected territory with valuable resources in exchange for support. This is mechanism is called "Alliance" in EVE.

Adding something meaningful and powerful like faction controlled Mega Ship isn't OP, because it is totally different scale of gameplay which wont be ever achieved by casual lone players and small groups, this is not their concern. Still some of the more involved players will benefit from it significantly.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

As Frontier outlined many times before that they aren't planning on player owned assets and/or territory control,
I hope they will stick to their promise.

I can understand that this player owned assets are fancy for some, but it is not serving the Background System which is
filling the Universe with economy and traffic and politics.

Its true, BGS is still not near there where i should be, but this is a different story.
Fighting their own BGS with player owned assets will deliver catastrophic results over the long term.
So let's hope that Frontier is working on a still consistent way to incubate the galaxy without player
owned assets.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

Adding something meaningful and powerful like faction controlled Mega Ship isn't OP, because it is totally different scale of gameplay which wont be ever achieved by casual lone players and small groups, this is not their concern. Still some of the more involved players will benefit from it significantly.

This is absolutely their concern when it shapes the entire galaxy around them.

It IS a totally different scale of gameplay. THAT's the entire problem

 

[Xender]

As Frontier outlined many times before that they aren't planning on player owned assets and/or territory control,
I hope they will stick to their promise.

I can understand that this player owned assets are fancy for some, but it is not serving the Background System which is
filling the Universe with economy and traffic and politics.

Its true, BGS is still not near there where i should be, but this is a different story.
Fighting their own BGS with player owned assets will deliver catastrophic results over the long term.
So let's hope that Frontier is working on a still consistent way to incubate the galaxy without player
owned assets.

Regards,
Miklos

At some point when game is grown, the players grinded enough to be rich, they need new purpose of playing. There are few options:
1. Artificial role playing. You are pretending that game offers more that it offer in reality. You may simulate wars, territory control and other "social end-game" activities.
2. True social end-game activities. Territory control, owning something bigger and more persistent than your ship which creates you new way to fight for.
3. Dive deep into procgen galaxy to see many similar looking planets! Meh...

This is absolutely their concern when it shapes the entire galaxy around them.

It IS a totally different scale of gameplay. THAT's the entire problem

Yes this it totally different scale of gameplay and this is it! As I mentioned earlier, as casual player you may play in the same way as earlier. Explore uncontrolled galaxy, missions, mining, whatever. However if you are interested in some kind of competitive gameplay, you should join some competitive faction and play alongside them. This create another layer of involvement over the existing one. Of course this must be really good designed and tweaked. For example Mega Ship should have cool down between war initiations etc. There are some many options to balance it. And I think there is nothing bad about that the bigger faction overpower smaller. Even now, BGS work in that way - if you have more players you can influence BGS harder and this is fair.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

I can say with certainly that I'm very much not a casual player lol. I head up a player faction, while not the biggest, is certainly not the smallest. I've already mentioned we'd certainly be able to purchase a "mega Ship", we have a lot of credits between us. The fact that I can empathise and see it from somebody else's perspective seems a little foreign, possibly.

However I can still see that it would be OP. Yes at the moment you can defeat a smaller faction fairly easily, so why you'd need any further assistance to do this is beyond me.

Players can already own stations (in a way) though not control them. the first step would have to be that players can in some way control their own station, but the ability to control a station which can move into another player faction's system (again especially a smaller faction) is completely OP, and would push people out of the game

 

[goemon]

Mega Ships looks like promising concept however it may be wasted if this will work like just another type of station.

stations are wasted? don't you use them?

The best opportunity for it is giving it to player factions/groups.

like stations?

When Mega Ship is ready the Group Leader may control it

... who?

you know that factions, even those backed by player groups, have NPC-characters "leading them", i'm mainly communicating with vice-presidents and progenitors, as everyone else.

your suggestion makes zero sense to me in the way factions, bgs or groups work in the game.

there are no group leaders, there are factions with npc-characters, and every player, in every mode, can work for or against them, with others, or not. neat design.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

you know that factions, even those backed by player groups, have NPC-characters "leading them", i'm mainly communicating with vice-presidents and progenitors, as everyone else..

This is true actually. While I'm the "frontier contact" etc for our player group, in our lore it's run by an NPC and we have a council which I have one vote in, so we're all "leaders" even if you discount NPCs

 

[Xender]

This is true actually. While I'm the "frontier contact" etc for our player group, in our lore it's run by an NPC and we have a council which I have one vote in, so we're all "leaders" even if you discount NPCs

It should be overhauled and control should be granted to players. This is insane that Frontier manually add players factions/groups to game rather than adding proper guild/clan system. It is good for mod or Ultime Online shard not for modern game.

 

[PBSF Pendragon]

There is no overhaul which will put me as "leader of our faction" overruling out current NPC leader and without meaning a further 12 people are also "leaders" at the same level. Yes I absolutely agree a clan / guild system would be perfect, but given the size of the elite galaxy and the fact that these players could theoretically make changes which need to be reflected in many different systems completely dynamically means it's not exactly as easy as programming dizzy prince of the yolk folk.

 

[Tryst]

As Frontier outlined many times before that they aren't planning on player owned assets and/or territory control,
I hope they will stick to their promise.

I hope they don't.
This game would be limited far too much without such things. We already have players with mega millions and nothing to spend it on and that's after only 2 years. Imagine if the game continues for 3, 4 or even 5 more years, you're going to have a lot of very bored players, (if they are still playing at all) who can buy any new toy FD bring out if it's only a standard ship. What we really need is a goal that's way out of reach, even for the mega rich.

 

[Captain Willard]

You and all yours could never afford a CAP SHIP or the upkeep. This isn't eve.