Merits, just Merits

[Julio Montega]

Ahoy lads,
can we please have a reiteration on the design process of mertis?
Currently merits are not earned for homeland defense by destroying hostile ships within the own sphere of influence.

Dozens of CMDRs flog to hostile territory opposing expansions, as they are the most tasty stuff meritwise for a combat role.
Doing things, that actually benefit the own power is not rewarded accordingly, 1 merit per ship-kill in Violent protests, Military strikes, or whatever you call it, just is outrageous.
The effort to expand is rising exponentially with a small power, and we have a lot of fine lads pulling on one string to advance and expand,
yet we are left to the same lame merit-per-kill ratio and have expenses, that skyrocket.

Please think about the merits again, FD.
Give all players an incentive to further important tasks of their respective power!

 

[Battleship Kickass]

I'll give you a bump for this and full agreement. Merits earned for actions are extremely unbalanced in every way I can think of.

I can only suspect that the guy who originally put the values in combat zones at a couple thousand cr per kill for a basic fighter and for a full combat anaconda and thought it was balanced was placed in charge of balancing amounts and ways in which merits are earned.

I'm sure they will be changed eventually, but it sure took a long time to get CZ's rewards updated, so don't hold your breath.

 

[Ozmodion]

I dont bother with PP cus i just dont think the merit system works enough for me to bother with it.

 

[HurstLlama]

I'd add my endorsement to the OPs suggestion. We have people in my faction performing selflessly at defending key systems, including our capital, against intruders so that other members can trade and gain merits by picking up and delivering the packages. Yet those stout defenders are very poorly rewarded in comparison the the member who, because of their efforts, is able to fly in in his under-armed trade ship and run deliveries that earn him lots of merits and thus cash.

I should have thought 15 merits a kill whilst on the defensive would not be unreasonable.

 

[Jmanis]

I've said this in multiple other threads too, but a big boost to the merit value of stealing cargo (which is the *only* way to undermine factions aligned to the same major power) is needed. It is far more effort than pulling ships out of supercruise and killing them, very likely unsuccessful, and only earns 1 merit per tonne. It needs to be more like 10 merits per tonne.

 

[Julio Montega]

I've said this in multiple other threads too, but a big boost to the merit value of stealing cargo (which is the *only* way to undermine factions aligned to the same major power) is needed. It is far more effort than pulling ships out of supercruise and killing them, very likely unsuccessful, and only earns 1 merit per tonne. It needs to be more like 10 merits per tonne.

Yes that is an issue aswell,
i was picking up stuff undermining factions of the same alignment and wondered,
why the killing of a transport wasn't rewarded, along with the male 1 merit per tonne stuff.

I was wondering if it would be logical to include a reward fro stealing other faction's cargo,
who are on a different alignment and selling it to the black market would be working too.
Why not have someone else do your dirty work and pay him for his "covert" effort opposing
your "allies".

 

[paranormal]

Yeah, totally agree on that. It's a big time and effort sink there, but not much rewarding on progress.

I dont bother with PP cus i just dont think the merit system works enough for me to bother with it.

And imagine how many others are thinking the same.

Also, thanks to the Fuel Rats! I hope you guys are doing well and prosper.

 

[Julio Montega]

Oh sweet enlightenment, now we got another update which
didn't take merits for one into account but even increased the work necessary for expansion to 5 times the effort?

Dear FD please keep in mind, there are small factions participating in pp, too,
which you just backstabbed by this update.

Having an advantage in expansion now requires like 6k to actually expand into a system?
Do you really think, anybody is going to be interested in expanding (1 merit per kill!!!!)
playing a 24/7 combat zone without getting compensated for the effort, apart from the hardcore
power players?

Was this really necessary?

 

[Dbrn47]

Oh sweet enlightenment, now we got another update which
didn't take merits for one into account but even increased the work necessary for expansion to 5 times the effort?

Dear FD please keep in mind, there are small factions participating in pp, too,
which you just backstabbed by this update.

Having an advantage in expansion now requires like 6k to actually expand into a system?
Do you really think, anybody is going to be interested in expanding (1 merit per kill!!!!)
playing a 24/7 combat zone without getting compensated for the effort, apart from the hardcore
power players?

Was this really necessary?

With how quickly some factions are expanding, yes. It also increases the workload for undermining. This increases the strategy involved instead of just expanding everywhere. It will likely be increased again. The balancing act isn't over.

 

[DJ]

This thread makes me

 

[Julio Montega]

With how quickly some factions are expanding, yes. It also increases the workload for undermining. This increases the strategy involved instead of just expanding everywhere. It will likely be increased again. The balancing act isn't over.

While that is true and opens up several strategical issues needing to be dealt with, try to get into the role of a small power,
who has lower numbers and needs it's combat pilots be on expansion duties 24/7,
we don't even get awarded for throwing our time and money at the goals necessary to keep the power alive.

Why?!

 

[Valander]

Oh sweet enlightenment, now we got another update which
didn't take merits for one into account but even increased the work necessary for expansion to 5 times the effort?

Only fortification and undermining were increased to 5x levels. Expansion, opposition, and preparation were not touched, according to the patch notes.

 

[callahan44]

I get jumped by NPCs 1-3 times *everytime* I'm in my faction HQ system. A 600cr bounty is pitiful for a wing containing an Anaconda, Python, (some fodder)

 

[Julio Montega]

Only fortification and undermining were increased to 5x levels. Expansion, opposition, and preparation were not touched, according to the patch notes.

You might wanna check the ingame stats then, here is some sweet data:

Expansions before ( neither strong nor weak expansion wise)
LTT 17165 CC value 102 per cycle trigger somewhere around 1,6k (Pop 2,2 Million)
HIP 4005 CC value 35 per cycle trigger around 1,2k (Pop 8,3 Million)

Expansions now (neither strong nor weak):
Maikoro CC value 113 per cycle trigger 6,5k??!! (Pop 4.9 Million)
Gorringa cc value 76 per cycle trigger 5,6k??!! (Pop 32 Million)

So as you see the population isn't taken into account, but the cc per cycle are,
but before the trigger was way lower than now.
So much to "not touch expansion" then, huh?

 

[Valander]

You might wanna check the ingame stats then, here is some sweet data:

Expansions before ( neither strong nor weak expansion wise)
LTT 17165 CC value 102 per cycle trigger somewhere around 1,6k (Pop 2,2 Million)
HIP 4005 CC value 35 per cycle trigger around 1,2k (Pop 8,3 Million)

Expansions now (neither strong nor weak):
Maikoro CC value 113 per cycle trigger 6,5k??!! (Pop 4.9 Million)
Gorringa cc value 76 per cycle trigger 5,6k??!! (Pop 32 Million)

So as you see the population isn't taken into account, but the cc per cycle are,
but before the trigger was way lower than now.
So much to "not touch expansion" then, huh?

Well, can't check in-game, as I'm at work... but that blows if true, because the patch notes only mention expansion and opposition:

Balance change log:

- The number of votes assigned to players has been increased
- Requirements for fortify and undermine have been increased by 5 times – this is to encourage more tactical play and we believe this will need increasing further but will review on the next cycle.

Thanks!

That said, I completely agree with the original point of this thread that the merits are just not reasonably allocated in comparison to the various tasks.

 

[Dbrn47]

While that is true and opens up several strategical issues needing to be dealt with, try to get into the role of a small power,
who has lower numbers and needs it's combat pilots be on expansion duties 24/7,
we don't even get awarded for throwing our time and money at the goals necessary to keep the power alive.

Why?!

I don't know how to argue with that because I feel rewarded. I'm getting +70% bounties, will have access to a multi shot railgun, and a 5m credit stipend. If I really push hard, I can get Rating 5 to get those perks. This feels like a reward to me, so I have no real counter to your feelings. Maybe you picked the wrong power to support? I don't know how you play, but as a bounty hunter I'm getting a lot out of my power.

 

[Julio Montega]

I don't know how to argue with that because I feel rewarded. I'm getting +70% bounties, will have access to a multi shot railgun, and a 5m credit stipend. If I really push hard, I can get Rating 5 to get those perks. This feels like a reward to me, so I have no real counter to your feelings. Maybe you picked the wrong power to support? I don't know how you play, but as a bounty hunter I'm getting a lot out of my power.

You have chosen one of the largest powers player count wise,
you do not have to contribute into expansion targets at all,
to get any expansion and stay in the tops, because of others doing the
work.

So you can just focus farming merits by opposing other powers' expansion systems and get a high reward per kill,
bounty hunt in the meantime to make money, or else.

I love my power, i love the friends i have made by joining it and the communal effort,
but i will not stand by and watch us having the worst share of the cake.

We are on our toes, constantly, and not getting rewarded for responding to emergencies
toppling our plans for the in-game evening.
There have been several occasions we had to redeploy to actually keep the power's interest up.

What do we get for it?
Cumulative ammo cost, repairs, time spent,
and a measley 1 merit per kill, yielding in about 200 merits per evening,
where i could have made 1,6k merits by just opposing someone else...

 

[Dbrn47]

You have chosen one of the largest powers player count wise,
you do not have to contribute into expansion targets at all,
to get any expansion and stay in the tops, because of others doing the
work.

So you can just focus farming merits by opposing other powers' expansion systems and get a high reward per kill,
bounty hunt in the meantime to make money, or else.

I love my power, i love the friends i have made by joining it and the communal effort,
but i will not standby and watch us having the worst share of the cake.

We are on our toes, constantly, and not getting rewarded for responding to emergencies
toppling our plans for the in-game evening.
There have been several occasions we had to redeploy to actually keep the power's interest up.

What do we get for it?
Cumulative ammo cost, repairs, time spent,
and a measley 1 merit per kill, yielding in about 200 merits per evening,
where i could have made 1,6k merits by just opposing someone else...

I chose based on the rewards that suit my play style though, there would have been no way for me to know it'd be the popular choice. If it wasn't, I'd still be there and still be grinding for those rewards in a way that helps us expand. Can you not also kill ships in opposing control systems to gain the same amount of merits? If you can't, well, I'd imagine that flying to the combat zone pockets for expansions would yield quite a bit when flying in a wing since your kill speed would be much higher. I know my merit gains were increased exponentially when I flew with a wing.

 

[Julio Montega]

I chose based on the rewards that suit my play style though, there would have been no way for me to know it'd be the popular choice. If it wasn't, I'd still be there and still be grinding for those rewards in a way that helps us expand. Can you not also kill ships in opposing control systems to gain the same amount of merits? If you can't, well, I'd imagine that flying to the combat zone pockets for expansions would yield quite a bit when flying in a wing since your kill speed would be much higher. I know my merit gains were increased exponentially when I flew with a wing.

You can fly into hostile territory to oppose other powers and get 15 merits per kill,
however to expand you have to get into "combat zones" rewarding 1 merit per kill,
the numbers i gave you are based on a full wing action for 5 hours.
This takes getting there and returning safely along with network issues and instancing bugs into account.

Opposing hostile territory does not contribute to expansion, and we need every pilot on expansion to reach the new triggers...

 

[Dbrn47]

You can fly into hostile territory to oppose other powers and get 15 merits per kill,
however to expand you have to get into "combat zones" rewarding 1 merit per kill,
the numbers i gave you are based on a full wing action for 5 hours.

Opposing hostile territory does not contribute to expansion, and we need every pilot on expansion to reach the new triggers...

I understand how the game works... I'm sorry you chose the power you did. Really nothing else to say about it. Be ready for them to increase it again though.