General / Off-Topic Metformin, should we take it?

There is considerable ignorance of basic science even among some of the Ph.D guys doing the research.

hey, let's not be so negative! it's said it cures cancer and holds the secret to eternal youth! what's not to like?

(actually, yeah, this world is getting very complicated to manage and maybe it would be a good idea to let natural selection do its thing).
 
How did you do that?

Keep hoping there would be an answer to this from somebody who actually did it,
But failing that, I know 5 ways to potentially do it.

  • Kempner Rice diet ( sounds dubious, but the evidence is compelling)
  • Bariatric Surgery
  • Newcastle Protocol ( large scale UK study running now)
  • Whole Food Plant Based diet
  • Low Carb Keto Diet ( I would avoid this )

A guy named McDougall in the US has some encouraging results with number 4 above.
 
Keep hoping there would be an answer to this from somebody who actually did it,
But failing that, I know 5 ways to potentially do it.

  • Kempner Rice diet ( sounds dubious, but the evidence is compelling)
  • Bariatric Surgery
  • Newcastle Protocol ( large scale UK study running now)
  • Whole Food Plant Based diet
  • Low Carb Keto Diet ( I would avoid this )

A guy named McDougall in the US has some encouraging results with number 4 above.

My experience of the low-carb Keto diet is that it's similar to the Newcastle Diet (which is basically fasting). It's something you can do for a relatively short period of time in order to shift weight, but you can't do it indefinately and unless something changes in your diet you'll just return to the same weight as before.

I do think "something else" is going on with obesity and we haven't worked out what it is yet. It's not as simple as "Calories in, Calories out".
 
How did you do that?
2 things helped:
  • Learning about what Diabetes actually is. (Insulin resistance - understand how insulin works, etc. and you're halfway there)
  • Diet, specifically a low carb diet, combined with intermittent fasting.

Being diabetic means you're insulin resistant; the key is to reverse that resistance by trying to keep it low, by being careful what you eat, and how often.

Metformin is used to control your blood sugar - simply going on a keto diet would eliminate the need for medication (or at the least, drastically reduce the dosage)

I strongly recommend the book by Dr Fung entitled "The Diabetes Code" - there's a bit of 'blah blah' in there, but generally his advice is solid.

In all cases, consult with your doctor prior to ensure they are on board and can monitor/help you.

My experience of the low-carb Keto diet is that it's similar to the Newcastle Diet (which is basically fasting). It's something you can do for a relatively short period of time in order to shift weight, but you can't do it indefinately and unless something changes in your diet you'll just return to the same weight as before.

I do think "something else" is going on with obesity and we haven't worked out what it is yet. It's not as simple as "Calories in, Calories out".
That isn't true .. well, more accurately, you can Intermittently Fast for your entire life, as long as you know what you're doing. Even as simple as TRE (Time Restricted Eating), which is condensing your meal times into a block 8 hours or less - so 16/8 is normal (16 hours don't eat, then 8 hours consume all your calorific needs); 20/4 is what i do; 23/1 is OMAD (One Meal a Day) which works for some, most effective at reversing T2, but it can be hard to get all your calories into a single sitting.

You are 100% correct about it not just being "calories in/calories out". (Fung goes into this a lot more)

Keep hoping there would be an answer to this from somebody who actually did it,
But failing that, I know 5 ways to potentially do it.

  • Kempner Rice diet ( sounds dubious, but the evidence is compelling)
  • Bariatric Surgery
  • Newcastle Protocol ( large scale UK study running now)
  • Whole Food Plant Based diet
  • Low Carb Keto Diet ( I would avoid this )

A guy named McDougall in the US has some encouraging results with number 4 above.
Pure plant based diets I don't agree with; I don't know what the Newcastle Protocol is sorry; the rice diet (without investigation) sounds bad anyway for a diabetic as rice is mostly carbs, so eating it would spike your insulin levels - depends how often and how much I suppose; surgery is extreme, and generally used for weight loss (a side effect of being insulin resistant/diabetic); the only one I can comfortably comment on is the low carb keto diet being as that is what I do .. not sure why you would avoid that, but its a topic for discussion on another time perhaps.

*EDIT: Ah, OK, Newcastle Protocol is a low calorie meal replacement system of 600 calories per day, with a supplement of 200 calories of veg. Well, you will deffo loose weigh which will start to fix things, but in the process your metabolism will become wrecked. As soon as you stop that diet, and go back to "normal" eating you will pile it all back on. Coming off those kinds of diets can be tricky. Not something I would consider, but if it works - go for it.
 
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. Even as); the only one I can comfortably comment on is the low carb keto diet being as that is what I do .. not sure why you would avoid that, but its a topic for discussion on another time perhaps.

Thanks for posting.

We can cover this briefly, I think.
There is a lack of clear data in humans as to how best to proceed at the moment. If something is working, there's no reason to change anything. Different individuals might benefit from different approaches too.

Loss of insulin sensitivity seems to be the underlying problem. This means that after insulin binds to the receptor the molecular machinery it switches on is not working.
Intracellular fat messes with the machinery. That's how weight loss helps.

Eating a high fat diet is likely to maintain the presence of intracellular fat. We can predict that insulin resistance will worsen, if that is true.

And this preliminary trial in rats confirms that it does. So what happens to people long term? We don't really know.

Not eating carbohydrate and getting good blood sugars is like not having accidents by never driving. It will work, but driving ability will not get better. It will get worse. We stop making enzymes we are not using. Things get "rusty".

Whst happens if we combine worse insulin sensitivity with better blood sugars? Nobody knows. Maybe it won't matter? Thing is, insulin does a LOT of other jobs.

So, this study finds an increase in death rates with low carb. This is not promising.

Because of the uncertainty, I prefer other options, if they can be made to work.
 
Loss of insulin sensitivity seems to be the underlying problem.
Yes - agreed - and that fix is to intermittently fast, so that your insulin levels drop and allows your cells (over time) to become sensitive again. That is the primary fix for T2 diabetes. What you eat in between is arguable, but its the periods of fasting that allows your cells to return to normal is what fixes you. To help with periods of fasting, so that you don't feel hungry all the time, is why I try to remain Keto. A high fat diet (enough to satiate), low carb, and enough protein to maintain is done so that you control your insulin spikes when you do eat. Eating anything will cause it to rise, so what diabetics need to do is ensure that it doesn't rise too much to require medicine (to control the associated blood sugar increase).

Being overweight is a symptom of insulin resistance, not the root cause. Loosing weight helps diabetics, not because you're losing fat, but rather because your food intake is reduced, more controlled, hopefully restricted to 2-3 meals (not the average of 6 [inc snacks] that people have migrated towards) and most likely a control of sugar. During this diet phase your insulin, hopefully, will lower between meals.
 
Yes - agreed - and that fix is to intermittently fast, so that your insulin levels drop and allows your cells (over time) to become sensitive again. That is the primary fix for T2 diabetes. What you eat in between is arguable, but its the periods of fasting that allows your cells to return to normal is what fixes you. To help with periods of fasting, so that you don't feel hungry all the time, is why I try to remain Keto. A high fat diet (enough to satiate), low carb, and enough protein to maintain is done so that you control your insulin spikes when you do eat. Eating anything will cause it to rise, so what diabetics need to do is ensure that it doesn't rise too much to require medicine (to control the associated blood sugar increase).

Being overweight is a symptom of insulin resistance, not the root cause. Loosing weight helps diabetics, not because you're losing fat, but rather because your food intake is reduced, more controlled, hopefully restricted to 2-3 meals (not the average of 6 [inc snacks] that people have migrated towards) and most likely a control of sugar. During this diet phase your insulin, hopefully, will lower between meals.

Doubtless: this understanding is why you succeeded, along with discipline. I agree with practically everything.

Ketogenics from fasting is probably the most powerful tool in the arsenal at present. It can reestablish the insulin response. ( Everybody ought to fast for short periods just for protection, IMHO)

Here are a couple references to the intracellular lipid mechanism if anybody is interested. Fasting cleans it out, for free.



I read this stuff all the time, so you guys kindly excuse me for linking technical stuff. Not sure when it becomes too much. We still can't clearly establish what to do in specific cases to optimise treatment, and there might not be only one way to succeed.
 
I read this stuff all the time, so you guys kindly excuse me for linking technical stuff. Not sure when it becomes too much.
There is a YouTuber who I follow who links to research - after doing a Masters I agree with this approach (and yours) as it lends credibility to what is claimed. Science isn't always correct, but it's better than speculation. I like the links, read them, so thank you.
 
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