Mining Lance - Useless

[CATPAIN KIRK]

seriously, my guess?
PP weapons were simply not finished and rushed out.
i guess we can expect some more variation in the future, based on the existing ones

Doubt it - if FD had wanted a medium lance, the assets for the models would already have already been there. Some weapons (like Mahons) at least explicitely stated it would be small.

Anyway - FD still seem to consider the ability to mine with a small beam laser such a huge advantage, it has to be counterbalanced with insane fitting requirements, heat issues and whatnot.

So yesterday, I decided I'd give mining another go for the first time since beta - found a pristine metallic belt and actually did fit two mining lances on my Anaconda because the station didn't have medium regulars in stock. Actively did it for about 4 hours.

Found the range bonus to be pretty useless as even with an A5 collector limpet controller, my limpets wouldn't collect at the lances max range.

Made about a mill cr/h including the bounties, so not worth it (was a pretty soothing experience though). I'm sure the cr/hr could be optimised, given I'm completely inexperienced and took it easy.
I made decent amounts of Gold, Slver, Osmium, Painite, Palladium and Platinum - however I could have made the same amount in ~30 minutes of trading.

Given my previous statement on why including a mining laser with a power presiding the Imperial Slaver Association and running a mining corporation whilst paying less for mined materials at the same time in most systems, it must be trolling.

Giving it to Aisling for instance would have made sense - they liberated all the slaves, so they have to do the mining themselves - hence it makes sense to provide the faction with a mining laser.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Giving it to Aisling for instance would have made sense - they liberated all the slaves, so they have to do the mining themselves - hence it makes sense to to provide the faction with a mining laser.

Maybe WE are the slaves, and the Blue Beam is just there to identify us? Torvals Faction Color is Blue
Maybe it is that bad because we have to work longer for even less credits now?
D:

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Guys, you all miss the whole point, this thing is awesome!

1) Pledge Archon, get to rank 3, wait 4 weeks. You can now equip the Cytoscrambler and tear the shield of your opponent as long as he is less than 500m away from you (and be very patient).
2) Once the shield is depleted, tear its hull with the lance since you are still within 500m.
3) Go back to your asteroid, fire both the lance and the scrambler for a very "disco" effect (Discoscrambler?).

Oh, and haven't you heard of the legendary modified version of the Sidewinder which trades shield and armor for greater agility? You may get it after pledging at least 4 weeks in all existing Powers! And there are only 10 available!

 

[Deadlock989]

Sidewinders are great for mining.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Oh, and haven't you heard of the legendary modified version of the Sidewinder which trades shield and armor for greater agility? You may get it after pledging at least 4 weeks in all existing Powers! And there are only 10 available!

Call me intrigued - does it come with a bobblehead?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Call me intrigued - does it come with a bobblehead?

Yes, and some bacon slices on the dashboard...the smell should wake you up when you have fuel scooped that star for too long :-D

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Yes, and some bacon slices on the dashboard...the smell should wake you up when you have fuel scooped that star for too long :-D

or when you have used the Lance for too long...should have the same effect.

 

[Zhadnost]

I think the issue is that people were expecting these to be straight upgrades rather than equal to existing items.

This lets you take a mining laser that is still capable of dealing some damage, at the cost of mining efficiency.

Well, presumably Arissa's shield is an upgrade so surely everyone else's unique module should be.

 

[Quineloe]

I think the issue is that people were expecting these to be straight upgrades rather than equal to existing items.

This lets you take a mining laser that is still capable of dealing some damage, at the cost of mining efficiency.

Yeah, except if you have Rank 3 with Torval, you're probably not mining in a sidewinder anymore, where this was an issue.

Someone disturbs me while mining, I deploy 4 large laser turrets.

 

[Quineloe]

ok finally 4 weeks as a Torvaluable, I have to say.

The Mining Lance Beam Laser (as it's called with its full name) is probably the ONLY power play weapon that is actually an upgrade. At least for some.

Here's a short list of common mining ships where the MLBL is not a good choice:

Adder
Asp
Cobra
Federal Dropship
Hauler
Imperial Clipper
Python
Any Lakon Type transporter

Of course, it's also not a good idea to fit these on non mining ships
Diamondbacks
Eagle
FdL
Orca
Vulture
Viper

This leaves us with exactly one ship to use the mining Lance on.
This right here

Spoiler

This comes with a few distinct advantages over the two medium mining lasers you'd usually run on this.
First: Range. I managed to pop the cherry of an asteroid at 1700m. Given you can either drop Limpets on the asteroid or fly really, really close (which is painful in an Anaconda), that's a big plus.
Second: it comes with a nice built in timer on when the asteroid is depleted. You'll be overheating pretty much as soon as you popped 12 fragments.

[video=youtube;myq3C23YD6s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq3C23YD6s[/video]

Seriously, the heat generation is whack. If I can fire four LARGE burst lasers nonstop and barely raise my heat, four of these SMALL beams should not overheat my Anaconda from 30% in 10 seconds. And the only way this weapon performs better than 2xc2 mining lasers is if you equip four of them. The only other ship where the hardpoint loadout would suggest this is the Type 6 transporter - because it has 4 small hardpoints and therefore can't equip C2 mining lasers. I'm not sure you wouldn't just burn your ship up in the process of using these.
Every other mining ship would be better off using C2 mining lasers, just because you can't sacrifice 4 hardpoints on most other ships anyways. If you have to user fewer, you're better off with a regular mining laser for faster fragment popping.

It is however ironic that this weapon is still better than any other non-empire weapon, as it actually is a straight upgrade in some departments. How's that for Empire bias?

 

[Surly_Badger]

Why would anyone assume a small weaponized mining laser would out-perform a full-sized weaponized weapon?

C'mon.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

ok finally 4 weeks as a Torvaluable, I have to say.
The Mining Lance Beam Laser (as it's called with its full name) is probably the ONLY power play weapon that is actually an upgrade. At least for some.

Here's a short list of common mining ships where the MLBL is not a good choice:

Adder
Asp
Cobra
Federal Dropship
Hauler
Imperial Clipper
Python
Any Lakon Type transporter

Of course, it's also not a good idea to fit these on non mining ships
Diamondbacks
Eagle
FdL
Orca
Vulture
Viper

This leaves us with exactly one ship to use the mining Lance on.
This right here

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/mvdA6Wy.png

This comes with a few distinct advantages over the two medium mining lasers you'd usually run on this.
First: Range. I managed to pop the cherry of an asteroid at 1700m. Given you can either drop Limpets on the asteroid or fly really, really close (which is painful in an Anaconda), that's a big plus.
Second: it comes with a nice built in timer on when the asteroid is depleted. You'll be overheating pretty much as soon as you popped 12 fragments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq3C23YD6s

Seriously, the heat generation is whack. If I can fire four LARGE burst lasers nonstop and barely raise my heat, four of these SMALL beams should not overheat my Anaconda from 30% in 10 seconds. And the only way this weapon performs better than 2xc2 mining lasers is if you equip four of them. The only other ship where the hardpoint loadout would suggest this is the Type 6 transporter - because it has 4 small hardpoints and therefore can't equip C2 mining lasers. I'm not sure you wouldn't just burn your ship up in the process of using these.
Every other mining ship would be better off using C2 mining lasers, just because you can't sacrifice 4 hardpoints on most other ships anyways. If you have to user fewer, you're better off with a regular mining laser for faster fragment popping.

It is however ironic that this weapon is still better than any other non-empire weapon, as it actually is a straight upgrade in some departments. How's that for Empire bias?

2 km range is actually pretty good to get a sample of the asteroid without using prospectors (which are slow!) or getting 500m close to the asteroid.

I personally would equip only one for this very purpose, and equip regular mining lasers to be used once I know the asteroid contains precious only.

EDIT: Anyway, staying 2km away from an asteroid is not the best method since it would take way too long for your colelctors to travel back and forth from the fragments to your hatch. To speed up, better be at about 200m from the fragments.

BTW, what were you doing in a rocky ring? You know that only metallic (not even metal rich!) are worth mining?

- - - Updated - - -

Why would anyone assume a small weaponized mining laser would out-perform a full-sized weaponized weapon?
C'mon.

You like to argue with everyone about anything, uh?
The real question is: why FD did not implement a class 2 version here...if you have a constructive answer about that, i'd be glad to hear it.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

The Mining Lance Beam Laser (as it's called with its full name) is probably the ONLY power play weapon that is actually an upgrade. At least for some.
[...]
It is however ironic that this weapon is still better than any other non-empire weapon, as it actually is a straight upgrade in some departments. How's that for Empire bias?

2 km range is actually pretty good to get a sample of the asteroid without using prospectors (which are slow!) or getting 500m close to the asteroid.

I personally would equip only one for this very purpose, and equip regular mining lasers to be used once I know the asteroid contains precious only.

EDIT: Anyway, staying 2km away from an asteroid is not the best method since it would take way too long for your colelctors to travel back and forth from the fragments to your hatch. To speed up, better be at about 200m from the fragments.

BTW, what were you doing in a rocky ring? You know that only metallic (not even metal rich!) are worth mining?

- - - Updated - - -


You like to argue with everyone about anything, uh?
The real question is: why FD did not implement a class 2 version here...if you have a constructive answer about that, i'd be glad to hear it.

Well...
i would call Prismatic, Pack and the Disruptor upgrades, but not the Lance.
Mining Lance and Cyto are the two only weapons where they are downgrades instead.
I mean...seriously...the Lance generates heat (almost) equal to beamlaser and mininglaser combined, needs energy like a beamlaser...all for a fancy blue beam that has more range?
It even deals less damage than a beamlaser...so here an example:
Ship with 4 small slots.

	4x Lance	2x Beam	2x Miner	2x Beam + 2x Miner
Damage	12 (4x3)	8 (2x4)	-	8
Heat	12 (4x3)	4 (2x2)	4 (2x2)	8

Whats the problem?
2 beams deal a bit less damage compared to 4 lances, but adding a third beam would result in the same damage. but the lance has one more issue...it basically fires you mininglaser together with the beamlaser all the time.
The Lance produces 200% more heat (12/4) for just 50% more damage (12/8) compared to a beam/miner setup (you would not attack with the Miner, just with the beams). thats not an upgrade. Not to mention that the Lance drains energy much faster.
So why would you even use it, when a "split system" gives you better values without overheating you or draining your energypool?
I mean...seriously...you wouldnt attack a ship with your mininglasers right? The lance is like a newbie who uses all his weapons in one firegroup and wonders why he cant survive.
Not to mention that you can use a beamlaser in gimballed or turret

 

[Quineloe]

2 km range is actually pretty good to get a sample of the asteroid without using prospectors (which are slow!) or getting 500m close to the asteroid.

I personally would equip only one for this very purpose, and equip regular mining lasers to be used once I know the asteroid contains precious only.

EDIT: Anyway, staying 2km away from an asteroid is not the best method since it would take way too long for your colelctors to travel back and forth from the fragments to your hatch. To speed up, better be at about 200m from the fragments.

BTW, what were you doing in a rocky ring? You know that only metallic (not even metal rich!) are worth mining?.

You do realize my collectors say "out of ammo"?

Rocky ring was closest to home and I just wanted to test the fragment popping for a few minutes. I had no intention to collect.

Lazerus, the Prismatic shield generator isn't a weapon, and the only upgrade the pack missiles are is visually. The damage they do seem to be on par with regular missiles. Granted, that can feel like an upgrade.

As you can see from my video, I do not need the mining lance to actually defend myself. Which is another argument supporting my conclusion that only maxed anacondas can use this thing. I already said the heat is too high.

The big advantage really is popping asteroids at max range, then checking if you want to mine that asteroid without having your drones already run after the piece you cut out, regardless whether you want it.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

You do realize my collectors say "out of ammo"?

Rocky ring was closest to home and I just wanted to test the fragment popping for a few minutes. I had no intention to collect.

Lazerus, the Prismatic shield generator isn't a weapon, and the only upgrade the pack missiles are is visually. The damage they do seem to be on par with regular missiles. Granted, that can feel like an upgrade.

As you can see from my video, I do not need the mining lance to actually defend myself. Which is another argument supporting my conclusion that only maxed anacondas can use this thing. I already said the heat is too high.

The big advantage really is popping asteroids at max range, then checking if you want to mine that asteroid without having your drones already run after the piece you cut out, regardless whether you want it.

Prismatic is still a power specific module that can replace an existing one.
Pack is an upgrade since it can overwhelm Point Defense, fire all 4 shots in rapid succession, and has overall a few more shots in total. Damage and cost is the same, also the ECM weakness seems to be the same.
The only advantage the Lance has is its range, and even range is not a problem if you know how to fly.
"popping" asteroids with a laser will become useless anyway when the mentioned prospector buff arives (they will allow you to get more ore)
in a conda i would use 2 mediums instead, speed > range (not that mining would be worth the time though)

 

[Quineloe]

lol you believe that buff is coming any time soon?

Miners already had to wait half a year for the *worst* paying profession in the game to receive a few small goodies and collector limpets.


Yes, even exploration made more money, if you know how to do it.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

lol you believe that buff is coming any time soon?

Miners already had to wait half a year for the *worst* paying profession in the game to receive a few small goodies and collector limpets.


Yes, even exploration made more money, if you know how to do it.

never said that it would come soon, but atleast it is planned^^