Missile Bind Key

[Spanky668]

What I would like to see is a key that will fire missiles separately from other weapons in the group.

Example:
Weapons - 2 beam lasers and 1 railgun and 1 dumbfire missile
Fire group 1 - 2 beam lasers (primary) and railgun (secondary)
Fire group 2 - dumbfire missiles
Fire group 3 - kill warrant scanner and planet scanner
Fire group 4 - System scanner

Since we can only have two fire buttons, primary and secondary on a fire group, and I do not want to autofire my dumbfire missiles with other weapons, I have to have a separate fire group just for them. This means I need to switch fire groups just to use them.

What I would like is to be able to have the missiles in my fire group one with my other weapons but have a separate fire button to fire them, fire button 3. So this could be a third fire button on a weapon group or have the option in the controls to assign missiles to their own button regardless of the fire group that is active.

As it is, you only get a primary and secondary in a fire group. Two buttons. But I can see the need for up to four in a fire group. The above could also be fixed by adding more fire buttons per group.
I know this is probably not done because of screen space but I am quite sure it could be worked in.

Thanks.

 

[Magic Man]

What I would like to see is a key that will fire missiles separately from other weapons in the group.

Missiles or torpedoes? Both? What happens if you have more than one missile pack in a config? If they only fire when that weapon config is chosen then the button is redundant at other times, what does the other weapon button do then?

I have to have a separate fire group just for them. This means I need to switch fire groups just to use them.

Which is what happens in current combat aircraft. You have to select the weapon to be able to launch it.

As it is, you only get a primary and secondary in a fire group. Two buttons.

As above.

But I can see the need for up to four in a fire group. The above could also be fixed by adding more fire buttons per group.
I know this is probably not done because of screen space but I am quite sure it could be worked in.

Thanks.

Having four buttons in a fire group (plus the two buttons to select the fire group) negates the purpose of the fire group in the first place - and six buttons dedicated to weapon selection and firing is HOTAS clarinet. How many combinations of four things do you really need.

 

[Spanky668]

To answer your question first, missiles or torpedoes or both if you like as long as you have it assigned to another button in the fire group - assuming we could have four per group.
I am not sure what you know about current combat aircraft but we are in spaceships 1300 years from now. Has nothing to do with aircraft. You would think that supporting extra fire buttons per group could be figured out. I can figure it out now.
As for HOTAS clarinet, no one says you have to use all the available buttons. If you don't want to use up to four separate weapons in a fire group then don't. I am asking for more options, nothing that will impact you our hurt you two button love setup.
I think that being able to have various weapons in one fire group and the ability to fire the ones I want individually rather than have to change fire groups because of a two button limitation is a good thing.
I do think being able to assign a separate button to fire only missiles in a fire group is more difficult to setup than just have the option of four fire buttons per group.
My joystick has more than a couple of buttons and I am quite capable of using four and more at a time. I am a big boy now.
Finally, none of this negates the purpose of fire groups. Currently I have two for combat, one for interdiction and KWS and another system scanning. I only want more per group so I can select what weapons to fire without having to change fire groups. Maybe you only use one type of weapon and cannot fathom the need or desire to want more fire options in a single group.

 

[Magic Man]

To answer your question first, missiles or torpedoes or both if you like as long as you have it assigned to another button in the fire group - assuming we could have four per group.

So you're really just asking for another bindable weapon 'trigger' rather than a specific 'missile' key.

I am not sure what you know about current combat aircraft but we are in spaceships 1300 years from now. Has nothing to do with aircraft. You would think that supporting extra fire buttons per group could be figured out. I can figure it out now.

Agreed, future space craft may be totally different from today's combat aircraft but, if humans are still flying them with hand controls then we will still only have five digits per hand to control things with.

The reasons why today's combat aircraft don't have 'triggers' for each weapon will be the same in a future space ship as it is now.

Maybe you only use one type of weapon and cannot fathom the need or desire to want more fire options in a single group.

I cannot fathom the need to pepper a target with more than two different weapons at the same time, no. If/when I need to bring a third weapon to bear then a simple weapons config change (a single button press) more than suffices and keeps things logical as to what finger over what button is currently firing what weapon.

 

[Spanky668]

So you're really just asking for another bindable weapon 'trigger' rather than a specific 'missile' key.

Yes, more bindable weapon triggers instead of a specific missile key would be best.

I cannot fathom the need to pepper a target with more than two different weapons at the same time, no. If/when I need to bring a third weapon to bear then a simple weapons config change (a single button press) more than suffices and keeps things logical as to what finger over what button is currently firing what weapon.

Here is a good example. I have gimballed pulse lasers (2) and gimballed multi cannons (2). The are assigned to fire button 1 and fire button 2. I would like to replace one weapon with dumbfire missiles. But with only two fire buttons, I can either assign it to an existing group in my combat fire group when means it will fire a missile and waste it when paired with my gimballed weapon or put it in a separate fire group. I prefer to have all combat weapons in the same group so I don't have to flick back and forth. Four buttons would allow my initial setup and a third fire button just for missiles and maybe forth for torps if I swapped out another weapon.

 

[SirAdelaide]

If/when I need to bring a third weapon to bear then a simple weapons config change (a single button press) more than suffices

The issue is that if you have 2 weapon configs and a scanning one, you need to press N once to get to missiles, then twice to get to primary weapons again. It's worse if you put shield banks and chaff in a fire group also. In the heat of battle it's easy to mess up and fire off the wrong thing if the wrong group is selected.

It would be much better if we could set a super-cruise vs normal-flight tag on each group, and have 4 fire buttons (which could be assigned to keys). Or ability to select fire groups using the number keys (can we do that? I haven't tried)

 

[DaggerSnake]

There is a thread in this with developer comments on why it is a two button system. This is to best balance the large amount of controler types. Not everyone has extra input buttons or nice hotas setups. Having two fire buttons for weapons means experience, creativity and skill at fire group managent gives the advantage, not who can buy the bigger controller. I think it sounds reasonable.

I DO think that utility items should all be bindable to new keys, like heats sinks and chaff currently are.

Sorry I don't have the dev thread link, typing from a mobile device.

 

[Magic Man]

The issue is that if you have 2 weapon configs and a scanning one, you need to press N once to get to missiles, then twice to get to primary weapons again.

There is a bind to select previous group.

It's worse if you put shield banks and chaff in a fire group also. In the heat of battle it's easy to mess up and fire off the wrong thing if the wrong group is selected.

There are distinct binds for these so they can be left out of a group.

 

[Spanky668]

There is a thread in this with developer comments on why it is a two button system. This is to best balance the large amount of controler types. Not everyone has extra input buttons or nice hotas setups. Having two fire buttons for weapons means experience, creativity and skill at fire group managent gives the advantage, not who can buy the bigger controller. I think it sounds reasonable.

I DO think that utility items should all be bindable to new keys, like heats sinks and chaff currently are.

Sorry I don't have the dev thread link, typing from a mobile device.

Man, I wish you did have the post. I would have to disagree with the dev comments there. I don't have HOTAS, just normal joystick and they have been coming with 4+ buttons for many years now. Mine actually has 12. That being said, to limit it to 2 fire buttons per group so as to not offend people with controllers that do not have enough buttons is crazy. The option should be there for the many folks that do have the ability or desire to bind more to a group and those that don't have them, can get a different controller or stick with two. All bindings can be modified in the options for many things. Limiting this one aspect to dumb it down for the lowest common controller just seems ridiculous to me.

That would be like limiting the video resolution to non-widescreen resolutions because not everyone has a widescreen monitor or dumbing down the graphic resolution because not everyone has a powerful video card.
I will try to search for the post. Thanks.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Here it is!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93906&highlight=fire+groups

About 6th post down from Mike Evans.

"This isn't going to happen. We've chosen to use a two trigger system and as a result we've based a lot of the UI layout and functionality around this concept. We would not add another fire button unless we also redesigned the way the hud works to accommodate the fact that you can't just do a left/right split to show which weapons belong to which trigger. Likewise we'd need to extend the functionality of the fire group UI to add the new trigger. Having two triggers forces you to group weapons sensibly and to utilise the fire group switching functionality skilfully to maximise your ability in a fight. It also doesn't penalise those players that don't have access to extra buttons they could bind to a third trigger when such an option would be considered integral if it was available."

I think it makes sense. Once you make something easier for someone who has more money (ie better controller) then you've introduced pay-to-win. Never a good thing. I like the concept of limited control puts sensible configuration back on all pilots being equal and the one who uses it best is more skilled.

 

[Spanky668]

Here it is!
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93906&highlight=fire+groups

About 6th post down from Mike Evans.

"This isn't going to happen. We've chosen to use a two trigger system and as a result we've based a lot of the UI layout and functionality around this concept. We would not add another fire button unless we also redesigned the way the hud works to accommodate the fact that you can't just do a left/right split to show which weapons belong to which trigger. Likewise we'd need to extend the functionality of the fire group UI to add the new trigger. Having two triggers forces you to group weapons sensibly and to utilise the fire group switching functionality skilfully to maximise your ability in a fight. It also doesn't penalise those players that don't have access to extra buttons they could bind to a third trigger when such an option would be considered integral if it was available."

I think it makes sense. Once you make something easier for someone who has more money (ie better controller) then you've introduced pay-to-win. Never a good thing. I like the concept of limited control puts sensible configuration back on all pilots being equal and the one who uses it best is more skilled.

Thanks. I did find it after some searching and posted my comments there.