Missile Lock Warning

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Unless I'm missing something, the game doesn't tell you when a ship is attempting to lock on you for a guided missile or torpedo launch.

So, I'd like a warning please!

Doesn't have to be a text warning, last thing I'd want in combat is to be spammed by "Warning: Missile Lock Detected" every few seconds.

But it would be nice to have a lock attempt warning, so while they're trying to lock on you, you get a warning beep, and when they do get a solid lock, you get a solid tone.
Or something like that.

A flashing to solid light somewhere on the HUD would be good for hearing impaired players too, as well as a visual que if things are already noisy.

This would help you time ECMs, and take evasive action. And at the same time, not directly nerf any missile combat.
Although it would make suprise cascade torpedo strikes much more difficult, but the reward for successful hit is already very high.


Thoughts?

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Tornado]

Correct me if i am wrong but don't the missiles use passive sensors? ie heat seekers If so there is no way of detecting if someone has a lock on you, and so it is not possible to give a warning of a lock.
Fly Safe.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I believe that is the case...

But don't they still trigger warnings in real life? Or is that after release?

Maybe I played to many simulators as a kid. Lol I forget.
Technically, the ship is doing the targeting, which could be its detectable.


Ignoring whether it's in the lore or not, a suprise torpedo strike comes with no warning other than the contract turning in to a hollow triangle. And these attacks are usually fatal.
I do believe it would add to combat, rather than take anything away.
You still wouldn't know who are locking on, just that you was being locked on too.

You could also use it to scare people. Lol

Pirate: "Drop your cargo!"
Hauler: "Or what?..."
*Boop... Boop.. Boop. Beeeeeeeeeep!*
Hauler "Ok! Ok!"

 

[Tornado]

I believe that is the case...

Technically, the ship is doing the targeting, which could be its detectable.
"

In real life an aircraft can use an active sensor (Usually RADAR or LASER) to designate the target or provide an initial lock and this could be detectable, but as the ships in ED don't have RADAR or LASER they cannot use this method to lock up the target.
Fly Safe

 

[Tryst]

In real life an aircraft can use an active sensor (Usually RADAR or LASER) to designate the target or provide an initial lock and this could be detectable, but as the ships in ED don't have RADAR or LASER they cannot use this method to lock up the target.
Fly Safe

They must have something because a seeker missile takes a few seconds to lock. That something must be detectable. If you bounce any kind of signal off me to lock a missile on, I should be able to pick up that signal too.

 

[X-Terminator]

Well see it as a "oh hell I got a missile incoming" button by selecting Nearest Threat! I wish it didn't as I still want to target the Ships instead after switching gimbles on/off.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

They must have something because a seeker missile takes a few seconds to lock. That something must be detectable. If you bounce any kind of signal off me to lock a missile on, I should be able to pick up that signal too.

My thinking exactly.

If we had Fire and Forget missile systems (new idea?), the target wouldn't receive any warnings, until launch.
But the ship requires a lock, not the missile for all current guided missiles.
Otherwise, a lock would need to be re-established after each launch.

Adding a lock warning, plus a fire and forget subgroup of missiles, would add an interesting mix to the game.

 

[Tornado]

They must have something because a seeker missile takes a few seconds to lock. That something must be detectable. If you bounce any kind of signal off me to lock a missile on, I should be able to pick up that signal too.

That's exactly the point there is no signal bounced off your ship. The missile has a passive heat sensor. If it were an active sensor it would be much faster to lock on.
Fly Safe

 

[Tryst]

That's exactly the point there is no signal bounced off your ship. The missile has a passive heat sensor. If it were an active sensor it would be much faster to lock on.
Fly Safe

Relativity: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
"Passive" is not as passive as you think. If you are looking at a heat signature, you use infrared detection. That infra red can still be picked up which is why modern aircraft can still get lock warnings for heat seekers.

Even without detecting the infra red, you still have radar that can identify certain signals and "make an educated guess as to what the object is" by using speed, size and trajectory. If your radar picks up something small and fast on your tail that moves with you, it's a sure bet you have a missile that's locked on.

 

[Jabezz]

With the risk of appearing arrogant does anyone actually worry about missiles when in the middle of a full on fight?

The only time I'm aware of them is when either my point defence pops off a salvo or I see the explosion when they hit me but they hardly scratch the paint.

Maybe if you're in a Sidey it's a worry but not much as you start to progress. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[lilmoo]

Use POINT DEFENCE modules in UTILITY SLOTS.

 

[Tornado]

Relativity: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
"Passive" is not as passive as you think. If you are looking at a heat signature, you use infrared detection. That infra red can still be picked up which is why modern aircraft can still get lock warnings for heat seekers.

Even without detecting the infra red, you still have radar that can identify certain signals and "make an educated guess as to what the object is" by using speed, size and trajectory. If your radar picks up something small and fast on your tail that moves with you, it's a sure bet you have a missile that's locked on.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. A passive heat seeker does not emit anything. It locks on to your heat. If it is a pure heat seeker, and in ED it can not be anything else, you cannot under any circumstance detect the lock. Modern aircraft cannot detect a passive heat sensor, but as I mentioned before some times an active sensor can be used to tell the missile what to lock too, this can be detected, but as active sensors are not used to lock the missile a missile lock simply cannot be detected. A missile launch however is a different kettle of fish
Fly Save

 

[trollson]

Relativity: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
"Passive" is not as passive as you think. If you are looking at a heat signature, you use infrared detection. That infra red can still be picked up which is why modern aircraft can still get lock warnings for heat seekers.

No thats not how it works.

Your ship is outputting a shed load of thermal (and other) energy which the missile sensors can detect. They, the missiles, do not need to "illuminate" the target because it is already quite bright and distinct enough.

The same is true for current day missiles which use thermal based sensors - they don't emit, just detect the heat from their targets. These have been around since shortly after WWII, and have been getting more sophisicated in recent years - notably by the Russians and Chinese, as it quietly side steps "stealth" technologies designed to counter monostatic radar systems.

Your example seems more in keeping with security cameras with IR lamps - which use the IR lamp to illuminate an area without visual light polution. The IR in this case is near-infrared, just outside the visual spectrum, and not the same as detecting, say, body heat (which would be another example of passive sensor).

 

[Tryst]

No thats not how it works.

Your ship is outputting a shed load of thermal (and other) energy which the missile sensors can detect. They, the missiles, do not need to "illuminate" the target because it is already quite bright and distinct enough.

The same is true for current day missiles which use thermal based sensors - they don't emit, just detect the heat from their targets. These have been around since shortly after WWII, and have been getting more sophisicated in recent years - notably by the Russians and Chinese, as it quietly side steps "stealth" technologies designed to counter monostatic radar systems.

Your example seems more in keeping with security cameras with IR lamps - which use the IR lamp to illuminate an area without visual light polution. The IR in this case is near-infrared, just outside the visual spectrum, and not the same as detecting, say, body heat (which would be another example of passive sensor).

From the way you are talking, you have a missile boat and that's the only reason you are against it. Every argument you have made so far is negated by the fact that modern systems on combat aircraft can detect even a heat sensor lock.

You do realise of course that EVERYTHING has emissions, no matter how small. Hence my point about relativity. Even the human brain emits signals that can be picked up with the right equipment. Thermal imaging hardware emits an EM signal that is quite unique and can therefore be detected by the right hardware. You can't shield it because, in doing so, you must shield the image sensors themselves from the very thing they need to lock on to. Much like a tank needs a small hole for the driver to see where they are going.

Now consider that this is space and the nearest signal may be many LS away from you. Do you honestly think a unique and noticeable EM signature of a heat sensor wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb? The missile may as well be broadcasting Sky Movies.

 

[Tornado]

Every argument you have made so far is negated by the fact that modern systems on combat aircraft can detect even a heat sensor lock.

What evedence do you base this "fact" on? Having worked in and for the RAF for the last 35 years I have yet to hear of a system that can detect a passive ir sensor lock. Please let me know how it is done so I can inform my employer as possibly save many pilots lives.
Fly safe

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Eeek! I've created a monster!

 

[trollson]

From the way you are talking, you have a missile boat and that's the only reason you are against it. Every argument you have made so far is negated by the fact that modern systems on combat aircraft can detect even a heat sensor lock.

No. Nearly thirty years working in the defence sector - as a research scientist in missile technology and countermeasures, and in the commercial defence sector, and some degrees in physics and astrophysics.

Your turn.

 

[Tornado]

Eeek! I've created a monster!

No you just woke one up
Fly Safe