Missions theorycrafting - what do you want to see?

[El Grillo]

I have no idea if anyone is as interested in this as me but...

One of the things I'd like to see fleshed out more in Elite - and one of the things I like discussing and debating ideas for - is the missions system. Since launch there haven't really been many new types of in-space missions added - and those which have been added are often just the same as the old missions except with a few different labels attached.

What I'm saying is that when I'm doing missions today it still seems like the format is always basically 'go to X generic bit of empty space/X station, kill Y/drop off cargo Y'.

It's widely agreed that Elite has some of the best space sim mechanics of any game ever. So let's discuss how could Frontier introduce some new mission formats, or add more variety to existing ones, which would take better advantage of these (very satisfying and awesome) mechanics.

So... post your idea(s) for mission formats you'd like to see in the game (or improvements to/variants of current mission formats)!
I've posted a couple below - use the template if you like.

Try to keep them realistic - remembering (a) Frontier doesn't have massive resources at its disposal and (b) they have to work within the procedural systems of the Stellar Forge. I'm no game dev so please excuse anything I say that seems ridiculous or impossible lol. Anyone with more experience in game design, chip in with your thoughts!


A couple of ideas to start us off:
Genre: stealth/combat/speed-run
Format: heist/sabotage!
Idea: New mission template: go to X location, and by any means steal Y cargo container/upload Y virus/steal Y data/destroy Y cargo container/etc.
Benefits: docking, stealth and cargo scooping are all mechanics in Elite which require a little skill to do, and a decent amount of skill to do well. What about an open format of missions that requires the player to use some of these skills under pressure? Missions where the player can choose how to do them based on what kind of ship they have (stealth/combat/speed).
This would probably require instanced locations like the ones in the suggestion below. So for example, your mission is to get into an enemy(/abandoned?) Coriolis station and steal the cargo container inside. You can choose to speed-run it, getting in and out quickly enough that enemy ships can't take you out before you warp. Or you can choose to stealth it in and out of the station using silent running. Or you can choose to take out the enemy ships and then take the cargo.
Other variants in this format might require you to dock at an enemy installation of some kind, directly upload a virus (perhaps using a custom ship module provided to you for the mission) and get out of there alive. Same principle applies, you can use whatever method you prefer.
Technical challenges/benefits: I don't think it would necessarily need a massive load of new AI behaviours, after all there are already station patrolling AI (system security) in the game. But it would need an 'alarm' mechanic for the heist missions, and a few bits and pieces for the data theft/virus upload missions (which wouldn't have to be complex on the front-end, just new UI options really, but the back-end... well I have no idea). Really it's just mechanics to set the player to hostile if they trigger certain events I suppose - players can already control their faction hostility in combat zones, so maybe this wouldn't be too impossible.


Genre: combat
Format: generic kill missions (go to X, kill X)
Idea: these missions could be spiced up a lot by introducing specific target locations. So instead of 'go to system X and hunt around in SC/Res sites/nav beacon', what about 'go to faction/pirate X's base in Y belt in Z system'. Or 'go to ship graveyard Y in Z system'.
Benefits: first of all this cuts down on the amount of time the player is wandering around in SC or popping into Res sites hoping the right targets will spawn. Less random chance means less time wasted waiting for RNG to spit out the right result for you. It makes things a bit more accessible for new players and allows experienced players to hop into the game and know they can go (try and) complete a combat mission for their chosen faction within their hour's play time. It doesn't have to be all generic kill missions but it could be some.
But secondly, remember this trailer? Yeah, it's a cinematic depiction, but notice how they chose to set most of it in a combat scene with ships flying around a station? Wouldn't that be much more interesting than just fighting in empty space?? Point is, I think this suggestion could provide a whole lot more interesting combat scenarios. Instead of fights being exactly the same as if you were bounty hunting or whatever else, here you could have fights centered around specific locations and AI behaviour to match.
So if your mission was to go hunt pirates in some system, you could be told they're hanging out at a derelict/abandoned station, and you could have the AI not just fighting you like normal, but purposefully sticking to their base and trying to use the environment to their advantage, or protecting a certain member of their wing or a certain area of the environment or whatever. Suddenly the fight's about more than the usual open-space dogfight - and it requires you to be more aware of your surroundings and even use the terrain to your own advantage.
Locations could be anything - renegade pirate outposts, ship graveyards, cargo dumps in space/on a planet surface, industrial facilities, large asteroids/comets (when they're added)... whatever.
It would break up the monotony of all PVE combat being effectively the same.
Technical challenges/benefits: there are a ton of assets (stations, CQC assets, industrial structures, megaships, ship graveyards) that could be used or repurposed for use in missions.
But it would require two things: new AI behaviours (as discussed above), and mission locations instancing. Missions are generated procedurally and in order for them to be able to send you to a location it would probably have to be generated just for that mission, at a random (but specified) location in the destination system. This could easily be explained, depending on the type of environment, as an off-grid/abandoned site, or just a temporary site (e.g. cargo dumps or temporary industrial sites) or perhaps even an under-construction station or whatever.

 

[Villany]

What I really would like to see is mission chains, similar to miniature story lines. For example, escort a convoy to destination x. Then they ask you to take out pirate y (insert a generic mission here). You are done, a couple days passed, and they contact you that they need you to escort some valuable cargo. That done, they'll ask you to help track down and neutralize a pirate nest. Pirates dealt with, suddenly you get an emergency message that they leader of the group you are working for is under attack, and needs immediate assistance. Rescue succesful, they are very grateful. Sometimes they approach you with more escort missions, sometimes they ask you to destroy some vessels that have been causing them trouble near some small settlement. On some of these escort missions, the ones you escort get attacked by "angry ppl", some other time they'll dock with a station in hurry, often using silent running. Then they ask you to disable the defenses of a settlement. You do, they come in, capture the occupants and go off to sell them as slaves. At this point you have more choices: Either rescue the civvies or not, then either leave them on their own, join them or, hunt them down. (Further missions according to your choice follows)

The chain ends by either declining a mission in the line, or (in this case) leaving the slavers, destroying them, or if you joined them, authorities / bounty hunters / weirdos come and destroy them.

Basic idea is that not only one can get better paying missions from a faction, but also have a chain of missions that unveil a mini-story. Some are boring and nothing exciting is going on (for example, escort missions for eternity), some need you to defend the good guy from the bad guy (or reverse), and some they'll trick you and turn on you (for example if you have been NPC bounty hunting a lot in a system, they may decide to lure you into a trap by offering a mission, sometimes making you eliminate their rivals, then sending you to a place thats crawling with enemy deliberately, finally organizing a "fleet on fleet" battle, but they all turn against you)

 

[dekot]

I like your idea about having fights take place near objects instead of just out in open space.

 

[Spatial]

Group missions - and not ad hoc ones like Community Goals.

What's the point of being online and having multiplayer if the game cannot occasionally facilitate players to get together in small groups and achieve a common goal?

 

[El Grillo]

What I really would like to see is mission chains, similar to miniature story lines. For example, escort a convoy to destination x. Then they ask you to take out pirate y (insert a generic mission here). You are done, a couple days passed, and they contact you that they need you to escort some valuable cargo. That done, they'll ask you to help track down and neutralize a pirate nest. Pirates dealt with, suddenly you get an emergency message that they leader of the group you are working for is under attack, and needs immediate assistance. Rescue succesful, they are very grateful. Sometimes they approach you with more escort missions, sometimes they ask you to destroy some vessels that have been causing them trouble near some small settlement. On some of these escort missions, the ones you escort get attacked by "angry ppl", some other time they'll dock with a station in hurry, often using silent running. Then they ask you to disable the defenses of a settlement. You do, they come in, capture the occupants and go off to sell them as slaves. At this point you have more choices: Either rescue the civvies or not, then either leave them on their own, join them or, hunt them down. (Further missions according to your choice follows)

The chain ends by either declining a mission in the line, or (in this case) leaving the slavers, destroying them, or if you joined them, authorities / bounty hunters / weirdos come and destroy them.

Basic idea is that not only one can get better paying missions from a faction, but also have a chain of missions that unveil a mini-story. Some are boring and nothing exciting is going on (for example, escort missions for eternity), some need you to defend the good guy from the bad guy (or reverse), and some they'll trick you and turn on you (for example if you have been NPC bounty hunting a lot in a system, they may decide to lure you into a trap by offering a mission)

Escort missions are a really good idea, and rescue missions too. Maybe in a rescue mission you would have to fight off a certain number of opponents/take the enemies' aggro for a certain amount of time so the rescuee can get their ship's systems back online and jump out.
I definitely think there's a lot more room to involve structures and large structures' systems (defenses or whatever) in mission gameplay. So having to disable a station's defenses for example, or taking the station's power offline altogether or whatever.
Chain missions have been talked about for quite a while right? Seems like it should be possible within the proc gen system but it might be obscenely complicated to work out a series of rules to generate the different chains, based on the different factions and stations and so on which are actually present in each system..

 

[DragonIV]

Hop into a shots fired USS, wipe out the attackers, and get an immediate payment from the merchant you rescued, who now recruits you to escort them to their destination, which no doubt will incur a number of other "incidents," perhaps of an escalating nature. Final escort payment should match the level of resistance, and the merchant should quantify the likely risk entailed (perhaps by mentioning the reward available). It better make sense, too--no escorting a hauler with biowaste for 1M CR and he's beset by Elite FDLs every few minutes.

Changes required: ability to wing up with AI (limited scope, mission only).

 

[Villany]

I did not think of it like ur doing missions for factions, more like for random blokes (who are noone in the grand scheme of things) with randomly chosen story templates, lightly based on past player activities, like a harmless combat rank wont be asked to do escort missions, when the player cashes in a big bounty, theres a chance for the revenge line to happen (with a delay, ofc), things like this would not require tracking player activities maybe only if the bounty is player / NPC bounty, removing some of the complexity. I dont think even the ones doing the avenging has to be the same (if it removes some of the complexity).

The main point is to have some wider consequences of ones actions and to add some colour into the game.

Edit:

I think of it as a pool of mission chain templates that can be triggered (each triggering has a couple templates to randomly choose from, no guarantee for a trigger)
Within the templates there would be some fixed events, and there would be some randomly generated events similar to mission boards.

 

[El Grillo]

Hop into a shots fired USS, wipe out the attackers, and get an immediate payment from the merchant you rescued, who now recruits you to escort them to their destination, which no doubt will incur a number of other "incidents," perhaps of an escalating nature. Final escort payment should match the level of resistance, and the merchant should quantify the likely risk entailed (perhaps by mentioning the reward available). It better make sense, too--no escorting a hauler with biowaste for 1M CR and he's beset by Elite FDLs every few minutes.

Changes required: ability to wing up with AI (limited scope, mission only).

Nice! Yeah of course when doing escorts you should wing up with the AI, somehow hadn't thought about that.

Personally I'm not much of a fan of using USS's for missions, although I guess if there are player who just like to potter around in SC and pick up whatever random thing might crop up, then this would be a bonus for them! I imagine most players tend to spend their playtime on things like missions, trading, bounty hunting or whatever and so USS's are just things they see in passing and ignore... but I could be totally wrong!

Either way, it's still a cool idea as the mission could just be 'escort me [the merchant or miner or whoever] to this place, make sure you have a wake scanner so if I get interdicted you can come in and rescue me *hint hint*'.

- - - Updated - - -

I did not think of it like ur doing missions for factions, more like for random blokes.

Yeah that actually simplifies things quite a bit doesn't it. I'd only really been thinking of it from the perspective of the BGS and factions. If they had missions from random non-affiliated people that would open up a whole load of options... and allow them to put more missions on the lists without affecting the BGS! Would be awesome!

 

[Itaki]

Great thread

Event: Stop the seige. Cooperative PVE. NPCs from some NPC faction overrun a coriolis station, an outpost and a planetary base in a particular system. Truckers can move an ever-changing variety of items needed to help the authorities resume control and quell the hostilities. Like weapons, ammo, bombs, etc. Combat pilots are given small enemy targets to find and destroy or they can wing up with NPCs to take out a big target. Event objectives would change unpredictably ( if possible ) and enemy NPCs would push back (rebuys might need to be suspended or else covered by the local authority) for this event.

There could be ground warfare with SRVs. We need some beefier SRVs, eh? How about sky to ground bomb dropping? Do you need atmosphere for that? Or just gravity? Some players might like stealing things so thieves could infiltrate storage areas to get usable items for the anti-siege effort. Some players might need to use their hacking skills to unlock/access places or send viruses into enemy controlled areas to wreak havoc.

It's possible that the NPCs could win, leaving a station unusable for a while or some other negative effect. Player reward could be money, local rep or superpower rep.

The whole seige is initiated and run by the server. FD does not need to get involved manually. It could last a few hours. A larger one could last a few days.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I've done this a few times, but why not?

1. Scout the Enemy
Genre: Intelligence
Format: Scan ships of a given faction to collect "Intelligence Data". Collect X "Intelligence Data" to complete the mission.
Idea: These are non-combat missions meant for small, fast craft, to determine the the strength and capabilities of an enemy's fleet.
Benefits: As a non-combat mission, combat skills are not required. Escape skills may be required, as it is likely an enemy ship may not take kindly to being scanned, and you may even be chased down to prevent you from delivering those "Intelligence Data"s you've collected. It's more a variant-on-a-theme, but one that is based on logic and gives us something different to do than we've had.
Technical challenges/benefits: Aside from the creation of a new data type to collect, and ensuring that data can be gathered only from the indicated ships, there should be little in the lines of actual challenge to create this. The benefits - aside from a new mission type, are the opening of a number of other possible missions types based on this format.

2. Defend the Convoy
Genre: Combat
Format: CZ variant.
Idea: Transport ships are departing from a Planet/Station. Enter a Conflict Zone in that area and prevent the destruction of those transport ships by any means necessary. The more transport ships able to jump out the more you get paid.
Benefits: A combat-variant, with a variable payout based on performance, and the added challenge of actually having to defend ships and peel off or eliminate attackers before those ships are destroyed.
Technical Challenges/benefits: Some obvious technical/coding challenges to pull off - tracking transports to ensure they exit the zone without being destroyed. Opens the way for more similar types of missions.

3. Attack the Convoy
Genre: Combat
Format: Similar to the above, but this time you're the aggressor taking out convoy ships before they get away.
Idea: As above, but in reverse.
Benefits: Variable pay based on degree of success.
Technical Challenges/benefits: As above, some coding challenges to properly increment and ensure the correct targets only in correct zones only, but paves the way for more similar types of missions.

4. My Fiance(e(é)) Is Going to Kill Me!
Genre: Transport
Format: Transport mission, short timer.
Idea: A passenger mission, but with the destination being a Wedding Barge with a short time-limit to get your passenger to their own wedding on time.
Benefits: High-pressure mission (short time frame), challenge of finding a single ship in space.
Technical Challenges/benefits: Coding challenges to pull off, but not terribly complex. Pure entertainment value.

5. My Fiance(e(é)) is Trying to Kill Me!
Genre: Transport
Format: Transport Mission, variant initiation.
Idea: As above, but these would originate at a Wedding Barge, and require you to take your passenger as far from the barge as you can, as quickly as you can, while being pursued by hostile ships meaning to cut your escape short.
Benefits: Again, a high-pressure mission more based on entertainment value.
Technical Challenges/benefits: As above, though likely easier to initiate.

6. Dude, Where's My Ship?
Genre: Exploration
Format: Similar to tip off/salvage missions and Assassination missions.
Idea: Track down a missing ship - could be on a planet, or out in space.
Benefits: Potentially low-pressure, could serve as an initiator for chained quests.
Technical Challenges/benefits: No major challenges, standard mechanics. As above, can be a chained-quest initiator.

7. Go To Jail, Go Directly to Jail. Do Not Pass GO, Do Not Collect 200Cr
Genre: Transport/Combat
Format: Standard transport mission
Idea: With the addition of Prisoner cabins, new destinations can include penal colonies, to deposit prisoners. Higher valued prisoners may attempt to escape/be rescued by attacking ships causing significant hull damage to warrant prisoner passengers ejecting.
Benefits: Potential high-value missions, combat challenges.
Technical Challenges/benefits: Only need to add new destinations. More different missions are always a benefit.

7. These Are Not the Supplies You're Looking For
Genre: Freight
Format: Cargo hauling with a unique twist
Idea: Join a convoy by meeting up at a Mission Convoy Beacon to haul supplies through a region of space with a high pirate population. You are flying a decoy ship, and can expect to be interdicted and scanned, but as a decoy, you're not carrying what the pirates are looking for.
Benefits: Freight variant with variable payouts based on the number of times interdicted.
Technical Challenges/benefits: Keeping count of interdictions by correct faction pirates and variable payouts. Can be used as a base for other mission types.

Just a few ideas I've shared before in other formats. Like everything Elite, variety in missions means less mission burn-out.

 

[El Grillo]

^^^hot damn. Those are awesome. I love the one-off comedy ones, even if they would have to be offered pretty sparingly by the system The scouting idea is really good too, and the lost ship one would actually mean there'd be another use for the SRV's scanner which would be good...

Great thread

Event: Stop the seige.

Blimey. I love this. I think you'd have to keep it to systems maybe near the outer edges of the bubble, make it a sort of frontier problem (pun intended) where small systems with lower levels of control can be in danger of being overrun in a short period of time. It'd mean there's an actual difference between the core systems and the outer systems! And of course offer decent rewards to make up for any losses that players might have taken when the emergency state began (like if they were doing missions which they then couldn't complete because they can't access a station any longer, or whatever).

Group missions - and not ad hoc ones like Community Goals.

What's the point of being online and having multiplayer if the game cannot occasionally facilitate players to get together in small groups and achieve a common goal?

Absolutely. What would be cool would be missions that require a variety of ships serving different roles. Not that I'm a huge fan of regular MMO design but something where you needed a tanking ship, a support ship and a fast runner for example.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Currently all out of good suggestions for missions but I want to voice how much I approve of this thread. Genuinely enjoyed reading this and for what it's worth these sound great to me.

For the person that asked. Chained missions are in 2.3 update coming soon. Branching ones are on the list but not yet in game or beta.

 

[Andovar]

Chained missions are in 2.3 update coming soon. Branching ones are on the list but not yet in game or beta.

I really feel that these can be a huge game changer once they get more fleshed out. Multi-level chained missions with branching decision trees. That's the kind of stuff I could get lost in.

Another thing I'd like to see is something along the lines of "Local CG's"
Basically mini CG's that you'd only find if you were actually in the system OR if you're allied with the faction running it.
So if you're allied with the Meathead Minions of Marmosette, and there's a sudden outbreak at their station, they'd send out a broadcast message to all allied commanders for emergency medical supplies needed. It would be a short campaign, say 24 hours, and have success/failure criteria even if no CMDR's got involved. (usually failure, but still a chance that the NPC's pull through on our behalf)

I want my faction alliances to feel like they mean something beyond simply more lucrative mission board missions.

 

[El Grillo]

I really feel that these can be a huge game changer once they get more fleshed out. Multi-level chained missions with branching decision trees. That's the kind of stuff I could get lost in.

I think it has the potential to be good, but it looks at the moment like Frontier has just chained together similar types of missions with a bit of text to explain why you're getting the next mission. Which is cool, but if they're the same missions as have been in since release and there's no variety... we come back to the same problem which prompted me to start this thread.

One thing I think could be improved about the whole system is making it so we don't have to dock so much to interact with mission givers. So, for example, if you have one of these chains of missions, sure you have to visit the station and 'introduce yourself' to the mission giver in person in order to pick up the mission, but after that they could surely just send you the next one via mail.
We already get the option of picking up -some- missions via comms message panel while we're out flying around in space. Once you've gotten to a certain rep level with a faction, or perhaps once you've established a reputation with non-faction mission-givers in a station (if we ever get to the point where we have non-faction mission-givers..), it seems to me there's no need to make the player dock/land on planet every time they want to do a mission for their faction. Just have a few missions be sent to the player every time they log in. If it's a cargo mission or whatever then they'll have to dock of course, but if it's combat or something else they can just get on with it!

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I think it has the potential to be good, but it looks at the moment like Frontier has just chained together similar types of missions with a bit of text to explain why you're getting the next mission. Which is cool, but if they're the same missions as have been in since release and there's no variety... we come back to the same problem which prompted me to start this thread.

One thing I think could be improved about the whole system is making it so we don't have to dock so much to interact with mission givers. So, for example, if you have one of these chains of missions, sure you have to visit the station and 'introduce yourself' to the mission giver in person in order to pick up the mission, but after that they could surely just send you the next one via mail.
We already get the option of picking up -some- missions via comms message panel while we're out flying around in space. Once you've gotten to a certain rep level with a faction, or perhaps once you've established a reputation with non-faction mission-givers in a station (if we ever get to the point where we have non-faction mission-givers..), it seems to me there's no need to make the player dock/land on planet every time they want to do a mission for their faction. Just have a few missions be sent to the player every time they log in. If it's a cargo mission or whatever then they'll have to dock of course, but if it's combat or something else they can just get on with it!

Yeah the surrounding fluff could be done a lot better but mechanics-wise it's a big jump from isolated missions to chained ones which is what has got quite a few people more excited for the future.

 

[Andovar]

One thing I think could be improved about the whole system is making it so we don't have to dock so much to interact with mission givers.

Agree.
I would love to see more dynamic/on-the-fly missions coming my way.
They do a little of this now, but it's always felt out of place and contrived to me.
Like the times I've been mining, and after blasting rocks for half an hour I get a popup message from a faction about me needing to take out some pirate. What the...???
I'm in a T7 equipped with mining lasers. Surely there's other CMDR's out there better suited for your task?
They seem completely random, without any context.

Another thing I'd like to see (sorry, still a bit off topic) is some large scale PvE group missions. Say something along the lines of having to reclaim a rogue outpost or planetary base. Unfortunately, I don't see how that would be feasible given the existing gameplay mechanics in ED.

 

[El Grillo]

^^^yeah, unless (again) they introduce 'pop-up' instanced mission locations, which is what Eve does and it works pretty well.