Mobius suggests how to get 50,000 players back into Open

Being the founder of Elite’s biggest PVE community with 50,000 members, I feel that I can offer a few suggestions to get pretty much everyone to want to play in open.

I was all up for open from the start, but even during the early days it was shown that there would be zero consequences for unwanted pvp, I suggested that what was needed was some sort of crime and punishment system similar to that which was in such games as EVE Online(something of a poor version of this has recently been implemented) I also suggested that a faction style bounty system be put in place where viable targets from opposing factions become wanted and are viable targets in an opposing faction territory ( again something like this will be implemented soon).

instead what happened with Elite was a small collection of minority groups of salt mining players out to ram ships outside stations for the lols, attacking players at newly discovered alien ruins or attacking players at various community goals for no other reason than to post youtube videos of players being blown up for the sheer fun of it, any reason for a community to get together was always hindered by such groups.

When I backed Elite during the kickstarter having a galaxy of players sounded wonderful but the Alpha showed that Frontier was not interested in what the DDF( Design discussion forum) had to say and released a game thinking that everyone would get along.

If frontier wants everyone to play in open then I suggest the following.


  • Players are required to choose a universal faction that being Empire, Federation, alliance or independent.



  • Players that are from the above factions are legitimate targets from opposing factions and will show up as a viable target, independent players are not shown as a viable targets and are protected by the local factions law enforcement.


  • Players choosing independent that attack others as a murder pirate outside an anarchy system are flagged as wanted in all factions and will be attacked by the factions security force on entering a faction system.


  • Aligning yourself to a faction will offer players unique faction powers with the exception of independent players that will not show at viable targets, maybe some sort of rock, paper, scissor system.


  • players that are aligned to a universal faction that have zero bounty that enter another factions territory are not protected by that factions security force but will show that they are not aligned, players wanting to attack will receive no bounty/Elite or wanted status for the destruction of said player unless wanted.


  • Bounty hunters are required to register with a faction to bounty hunt players, these players will avoid being harassed by local security when a bounty scan has been completed.( a new bounty scanner will be provided by the faction).


  • Player factions within a universal faction that are at war are legit targets against each other and will only be attacked by the ruling faction security of that system when an opposing faction attacks a faction member. Independent factions that are not at war attacking player faction will be treated as a pirate and dealt with by the ruling security force.


  • All Anarchy systems are a free for all and have zero security forces to protect either players or player faction within that system and players will also not show as being wanted or that they are aligned to any other faction.


  • Systems have a security status. Low to high, high meaning that certain death comes to those attacking a player that does not have a bounty on their head or is not from an opposing faction.


  • Local security will not attack players from another faction but will only defend players from their faction, if a faction player interdicts a non faction player, security will not intervene to protect them.


  • Players wanting to perform piracy within their chosen faction against players that are not aligned to their faction are not penalised in other factions as long as they do not murder a non faction member.


  • Bounty Hunters are required to be an independent force, all bounty hunters will automatically see who is wanted regardless of what faction the wanted player flies in( only by getting a licence to bounty hunt will these players receive this ability), this means that bounty hunting becomes a legitimate role within the game.

Basically players need a legitimate target, being a legitimate target offers risk as there may be a Hugh trade profit on entering a system that is not aligned to your chosen faction. If players want to defend their chosen faction from players trying to profit then there is nothing stopping them from performing piracy as long no one dies.

playing within your chosen faction offers protection for those who enjoy a pve game, players wanting to gain a high profit need to risk themselves by entering a non faction system, this gives players that risk vs reward that all pvpers go on about and also gives those players that were not into pvp a good enough reason to enter into pvp to protect their factions.

I believe that using the above points will give players that want to play without unwanted pvp are protected by the system, and that those who want to pvp are free to do so.

What this all boils down to is offering protection to those players who are not interested in PVP while at the same time giving players a reason to enter into PVP/

I’m open for discussion as I am sure a few points will need some fine tuning.
 
Honestly that sounds kind of sweet. As long as the punishment for murdering an innocent legal commander was hefty enough to have meaningful consequences. Not the notoriety we have now which can simply be AFK'd away, I mean meaningful, game changing consequences.
 
Maybe for some of those "hiding" in PGs. I'm in Solo for very different reasons though. I'm not really interested in the respawn arena death match elements of the game so much. I might consider Open more if they get rid of the insurance rebuy system altogether though, which will never happen, unfortunately. Oh well; their loss.
 
this would require frontier to remove their thumb from their backside and make this Elite 4.0, I feel that if frontier was to take these ideas onboard it would be the beginning of the end of the PVE community.

players not wanting a pvp life style would choose to be an independent faction, this would offer them protection in all security systems. frontier would need to implement a deadly NPC security force to protect such players, but those players who were not adverse to pvp would chose to take the benefits of aligning themselves to a power faction to either reap financial rewards or influence their faction.


I also suggest that players wanting to change faction would lose all faction ability's and enter into a 48 hour cool down period as an independent faction player. if an independent players chooses a faction to join its an instant process. basicly being an independent player means that you do not get any faction missions and as such are unable to influence any BGS.
 
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From a player who has joined your group(s) since first hearing about board hopping (oh wait...)

Id absolutely find the setup described normal acceptable, and where to go. You could easily remove the distinction we currently have between open and solo with that.

Some flourishes for the idea:

- Create real incentives to go to anarchy systems. We need an very desirable incentive to run the gauntlet. To make this work effectively, this probably can't be in every anarchy system, but a dozen or so around the bubble. Regardless of how annoying pvpers can be, making it to the no fire zone of a golden station should be manageable by all.

- Ensure new players start in a bubble of hi sec zones and make them aware of it. Ensure its possible to outfit to some minimum level within that bubble.

- EDIT2: Rebalance outfitting to reduce the utility cost of combat fit. This is probably the elephant against open for me. I don't like anything to do with pvp nearly enough to take the utility hit when being combat outfitted.

Edit: Just another factor for consideration. While all the above is good, in every other online game i've always selected pve servers. I seek out pvp when its time and im ready. While a universal setup is probably the high ground, there's something right about being able to select what i usually do. That's actually a valuable thing from a pve players perspective.
 
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Honestly that sounds kind of sweet. As long as the punishment for murdering an innocent legal commander was hefty enough to have meaningful consequences. Not the notoriety we have now which can simply be AFK'd away, I mean meaningful, game changing consequences.

Players who murder innocent commanders who are not legit faction/PP targets anywhere but Anarchy must pay both the victims rebuy, and a fine not less than 25% of their credit balance, up $5 million credits.

Meanwhile, murderers and criminals get discounts and other bonuses in pirate faction anarchy systems, because what society sees as noteriety, pirates see as cred, and reward.

Want to play as a psychotic murderer, fine. The galaxy will treat you as one.
 
Being the founder of Elite’s biggest PVE community with 50,000 members, I feel that I can offer a few suggestions to get pretty much everyone to want to play in open.

I was all up for open from the start, but even during the early days it was shown that there would be zero consequences for unwanted pvp, I suggested that what was needed was some sort of crime and punishment system similar to that which was in such games as EVE Online(something of a poor version of this has recently been implemented) I also suggested that a faction style bounty system be put in place where viable targets from opposing factions become wanted and are viable targets in an opposing faction territory ( again something like this will be implemented soon).

instead what happened with Elite was a small collection of minority groups of salt mining players out to ram ships outside stations for the lols, attacking players at newly discovered alien ruins or attacking players at various community goals for no other reason than to post youtube videos of players being blown up for the sheer fun of it, any reason for a community to get together was always hindered by such groups.

When I backed Elite during the kickstarter having a galaxy of players sounded wonderful but the Alpha showed that Frontier was not interested in what the DDF( Design discussion forum) had to say and released a game thinking that everyone would get along.

If frontier wants everyone to play in open then I suggest the following.


  • Players are required to choose a universal faction that being Empire, Federation, alliance or independent.



  • Players that are from the above factions are legitimate targets from opposing factions and will show up as a viable target, independent players are not shown as a viable targets and are protected by the local factions law enforcement.


  • Players choosing independent that attack others as a murder pirate outside an anarchy system are flagged as wanted in all factions and will be attacked by the factions security force on entering a faction system.


  • Aligning yourself to a faction will offer players unique faction powers with the exception of independent players that will not show at viable targets, maybe some sort of rock, paper, scissor system.


  • players that are aligned to a universal faction that have zero bounty that enter another factions territory are not protected by that factions security force but will show that they are not aligned, players wanting to attack will receive no bounty/Elite or wanted status for the destruction of said player unless wanted.


  • Bounty hunters are required to register with a faction to bounty hunt players, these players will avoid being harassed by local security when a bounty scan has been completed.( a new bounty scanner will be provided by the faction).


  • Player factions within a universal faction that are at war are legit targets against each other and will only be attacked by the ruling faction security of that system when an opposing faction attacks a faction member. Independent factions that are not at war attacking player faction will be treated as a pirate and dealt with by the ruling security force.


  • All Anarchy systems are a free for all and have zero security forces to protect either players or player faction within that system and players will also not show as being wanted or that they are aligned to any other faction.


  • Systems have a security status. Low to high, high meaning that certain death comes to those attacking a player that does not have a bounty on their head or is not from an opposing faction.


  • Local security will not attack players from another faction but will only defend players from their faction, if a faction player interdicts a non faction player, security will not intervene to protect them.


  • Players wanting to perform piracy within their chosen faction against players that are not aligned to their faction are not penalised in other factions as long as they do not murder a non faction member.


  • Bounty Hunters are required to be an independent force, all bounty hunters will automatically see who is wanted regardless of what faction the wanted player flies in( only by getting a licence to bounty hunt will these players receive this ability), this means that bounty hunting becomes a legitimate role within the game.

Basically players need a legitimate target, being a legitimate target offers risk as there may be a Hugh trade profit on entering a system that is not aligned to your chosen faction. If players want to defend their chosen faction from players trying to profit then there is nothing stopping them from performing piracy as long no one dies.

playing within your chosen faction offers protection for those who enjoy a pve game, players wanting to gain a high profit need to risk themselves by entering a non faction system, this gives players that risk vs reward that all pvpers go on about and also gives those players that were not into pvp a good enough reason to enter into pvp to protect their factions.

I believe that using the above points will give players that want to play without unwanted pvp are protected by the system, and that those who want to pvp are free to do so.

What this all boils down to is offering protection to those players who are not interested in PVP while at the same time giving players a reason to enter into PVP/

I’m open for discussion as I am sure a few points will need some fine tuning.

I don't agree with your preamble, particularly because I think you have mis-characterized the motivation of some, but I'd support what you are suggesting re game-play . Of course this would mean removing solo pg entirely (imo).

I happen to think this is one of the most constructive posts you've ever made. I happen to believe that one of the reasons why folks salt mine is because there isn't any meaningful way to play the game in an adversarial way.

So if I understood it correctly, if people want to opt out of 'pvp' they align themselves with independents..

I think you are on to something..
 
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I would hope that being an indipendat faction pilot offers a very high protection, while not being able to influence any background simulation with the exception of a Community goal.

being an indipendant faction pilot would basicly mean that you are either a bounty hunter or a pve player. you are not a target whatever system you enter.
bounty hunters having a licence could influence a faction power state but just being an indipendant faction player means that you can go about your businsness knowing that pvp players have no reason to attack you.

i belive my suggestions has a foundation to get everyone back into open. I see it as those who do not want pvp can be a zero target and those who are not adverse to pvp without reason can make them available.

if frontier was to even comment on this, it would show that these changes have merit.

it would take a major update to implement these ideas but if it meant having frontier to allow a community to fracture as it is currently doing or have a community playing as one only time will tell.
 
Please, do not take this the wrong way, but PVE players meeting others in Open to be pirated, bounty hunted, and fight in Anarchy...never going to occur. Add on the instancing issue of 12 players per instance..that points to one of the larger problems with the game...the other one? A group of 50k players that have their own PVE mode, without dealing with any of the aforementioned.

I give you huge rep for dealing with this issue as long as you have and as graciously as you have. I would not wish anyone the day to day operations that you and your admins must have. I have nothing but respect for what you have grown and done within the game. I just think, at some point, you should give the PVE game back over to FDev...whether they can get their thumbs out or not.
 
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...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd PG fans will stil be yelling "OPEN HAS EXLUSIVE FEATURES, YOU'RE FORCING US TO OPEN WHERE IS NOTHING BUT DEATH AND SUFFERING".
p.s. your system is not going to work either if it's implemented somewhere expect open
 
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I'm almost exclusively in the Mobius group on both the PC and XBox. These ideas could very well draw me out into the open.
 
what im suggestiing is that players chosing an indipendant faction would be considered pve. these players would recieve full protection from all faction security, pvp groups wanting to be hats would not last long and would be severely penalised for attacking independent players. the pvp argument goes like this, " all private group players can effect the BGS and its unfair that we cant blow them up" .
playing in open as an independent faction means that they are unable to affect the BGS and as such are not a viable target. hats that still want to go around blowing up random independent faction players will find out two things, 1: that blowing up said indi faction player without a bounty has meant that they pay their insurance and they then have a bounty on their head that does not allow them to enter a system without being destroyed by the local security, thus costing them the price of their own insurance, and 2: that buy blowing them up has made no deference to the BGS at all.

over time these hats will learn that it is counter productive to attack players that have chosen an independent faction and as such will leave them alone and focus on other faction players.
 
I like a lot of that OP, bonus points for trying to find the common ground.

As far as player numbers are concerned I can only see positives for the Open population, and I assume groups and solo will still be available with the same rules?
 
I belive my suggestions has a foundation to get everyone back into open. I see it as those who do not want pvp can be a zero target and those who are not adverse to pvp without reason can make them available.

Logic and simple consideration would suggest this, absolutely. Providing purpose and meaning to various aspects of the game, including commander interaction, is of course a sensible and well reasoned approach with much merit. But it would not pull 50,000 people across. Your own people will fight you (ironically) on that. With some degree of conviction.

The how, has never really been the problem; it's simply execution of mechanics and ideas in form that is easily understood and digested. It's that Frontier invented a 'why' when they created seperate experiences, that create differing outcomes against a single simulation. The validity and logic of the thing is the least of Frontier's issues at this point, combined with a forum that's several years old that may share no semblance of continuity with the broader community.

And both are something I believe FDev are truely, only now, coming to understand.
 
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I also suggest that if all these suggestion were to be implimented then private groups be set as an automatic indipendant faction, Solo groups would have the same option and abilitys as open with one or two exceptions.

again frontier would need to make a major update for all this. solo players have their reason for playing solo.
 
Being the founder of Elite’s biggest PVE community with 50,000 members, I feel that I can offer a few suggestions to get pretty much everyone to want to play in open.

I was all up for open from the start, but even during the early days it was shown that there would be zero consequences for unwanted pvp, I suggested that what was needed was some sort of crime and punishment system similar to that which was in such games as EVE Online(something of a poor version of this has recently been implemented) I also suggested that a faction style bounty system be put in place where viable targets from opposing factions become wanted and are viable targets in an opposing faction territory ( again something like this will be implemented soon).

instead what happened with Elite was a small collection of minority groups of salt mining players out to ram ships outside stations for the lols, attacking players at newly discovered alien ruins or attacking players at various community goals for no other reason than to post youtube videos of players being blown up for the sheer fun of it, any reason for a community to get together was always hindered by such groups.

When I backed Elite during the kickstarter having a galaxy of players sounded wonderful but the Alpha showed that Frontier was not interested in what the DDF( Design discussion forum) had to say and released a game thinking that everyone would get along.

If frontier wants everyone to play in open then I suggest the following.


  • Players are required to choose a universal faction that being Empire, Federation, alliance or independent.



  • Players that are from the above factions are legitimate targets from opposing factions and will show up as a viable target, independent players are not shown as a viable targets and are protected by the local factions law enforcement.


  • Players choosing independent that attack others as a murder pirate outside an anarchy system are flagged as wanted in all factions and will be attacked by the factions security force on entering a faction system.


  • Aligning yourself to a faction will offer players unique faction powers with the exception of independent players that will not show at viable targets, maybe some sort of rock, paper, scissor system.


  • players that are aligned to a universal faction that have zero bounty that enter another factions territory are not protected by that factions security force but will show that they are not aligned, players wanting to attack will receive no bounty/Elite or wanted status for the destruction of said player unless wanted.


  • Bounty hunters are required to register with a faction to bounty hunt players, these players will avoid being harassed by local security when a bounty scan has been completed.( a new bounty scanner will be provided by the faction).


  • Player factions within a universal faction that are at war are legit targets against each other and will only be attacked by the ruling faction security of that system when an opposing faction attacks a faction member. Independent factions that are not at war attacking player faction will be treated as a pirate and dealt with by the ruling security force.


  • All Anarchy systems are a free for all and have zero security forces to protect either players or player faction within that system and players will also not show as being wanted or that they are aligned to any other faction.


  • Systems have a security status. Low to high, high meaning that certain death comes to those attacking a player that does not have a bounty on their head or is not from an opposing faction.


  • Local security will not attack players from another faction but will only defend players from their faction, if a faction player interdicts a non faction player, security will not intervene to protect them.


  • Players wanting to perform piracy within their chosen faction against players that are not aligned to their faction are not penalised in other factions as long as they do not murder a non faction member.


  • Bounty Hunters are required to be an independent force, all bounty hunters will automatically see who is wanted regardless of what faction the wanted player flies in( only by getting a licence to bounty hunt will these players receive this ability), this means that bounty hunting becomes a legitimate role within the game.

Basically players need a legitimate target, being a legitimate target offers risk as there may be a Hugh trade profit on entering a system that is not aligned to your chosen faction. If players want to defend their chosen faction from players trying to profit then there is nothing stopping them from performing piracy as long no one dies.

playing within your chosen faction offers protection for those who enjoy a pve game, players wanting to gain a high profit need to risk themselves by entering a non faction system, this gives players that risk vs reward that all pvpers go on about and also gives those players that were not into pvp a good enough reason to enter into pvp to protect their factions.

I believe that using the above points will give players that want to play without unwanted pvp are protected by the system, and that those who want to pvp are free to do so.

What this all boils down to is offering protection to those players who are not interested in PVP while at the same time giving players a reason to enter into PVP/

I’m open for discussion as I am sure a few points will need some fine tuning.

This idea does make the fed imp choice more personal and permanent. But will this idea lock you into faction specific ships?
 
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