More sophisticated new AI combat behaviour observed

[Truesilver]

Three new things I've seen in Beta 2.2:

1. Took modded cannons to CZ. Reduced an Anaconda's powerplant to 0% intending then to shoot out other internals and its guns after it became paralysed.

Didn't become paralysed! Kept manoeuvring as normal.

Hence AI now has power priorities preset as more prudent Cmdrs do.

2. Same Anaconda: it then rebooted its powerplant to 2% health. Intrigued, I shot it back to 0% four times in total and four times it rebooted to 2% or 3%.

Obviously, AI now uses reboot/repair also. Can't recall precise rank but it definitely wasn't Deadly or Elite.

3. At Nav Beacon, dog fighting NPC's and saw two pull full, pronounced, reverski.

(So it ain't all good, then ... sigh ...)

I don't do much PvE so apologies if these three things aren't new but afaik they're 2.2 additions.

I'd be interested to know of any other more sophisticated behaviour others have observed.

 

[Iskariot]

Three new things I've seen in Beta 2.2:

1. Took modded cannons to CZ. Reduced an Anaconda's powerplant to 0% intending then to shoot out other internals and its guns after it became paralysed.

Didn't become paralysed! Kept manoeuvring as normal.

Hence AI now has power priorities preset as more prudent Cmdrs do.

2. Same Anaconda: it then rebooted its powerplant to 2% health. Intrigued, I shot it back to 0% four times in total and four times it rebooted to 2% or 3%.

Obviously, AI now uses reboot/repair also. Can't recall precise rank but it definitely wasn't Deadly or Elite.

3. At Nav Beacon, dog fighting NPC's and saw two pull full, pronounced, reverski.

(So it ain't all good, then ... sigh ...)

I don't do much PvE so apologies if these three things aren't new but afaik they're 2.2 additions.

I'd be interested to know of any other more sophisticated behaviour others have observed.

These have indeed been mentioned before.
I like it.
I especially like that npc are now repairing their PP. That is great stuff and makes them much more interesting.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Three new things I've seen in Beta 2.2:
…

The power management to keep the ship maneuverable is new. Sure it wasn't just lag? Paralyzed weapons sound like it was intentional, but I had a few cases where the NPC didn't realize that the power plant was at 0% for a few moments (lag).

Reboot is certainly new.

Reverse flying is quite usual, most big ships use reverse flying while doing a U-turn. Since 2.1 sometimes - if triggered - NPCs do "normal" face tanking reverse flying.

If that behavior is increased in 2.2, then this is really bad news. It turns combat into a pure shield tanking numbers contest with not that much maneuvering needed.

It would be sad to see FD ruining the best part of their game - the one that involves flying a spaceship and trying to outmaneuver enemies in combat - by making the best option reverse flying and shield tanking.

What's the next step? Pre-programmed maneuvers: "orbit enemy at X m"? Spreadsheets?

 

[Tataboj]

Zadian Lichtfrost: Who knows, the OP just saw someone do reverse flying, this doesn't prove anything. Let's see for ourselves when 2.2 comes.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Zadian Lichtfrost: Who knows, the OP just saw someone do reverse flying, this doesn't prove anything. Let's see for ourselves when 2.2 comes.

That's why I wrote "if that behavior is increased…". It can be problematic (in my opinion), it depends on what changes and how big the change is.
It wasn't my intention to write something like "if that happens 2.2 will be the end of the game". I just think too much of reverse flying has the potential of making the game less fun.

We* will see, we* will adapt.


(* we used in a way that only includes those who want to be included an without the intention to exclude those who don't want to be included)

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Stop moaning. Git Gud (I think that was the cry before to the rest of us...)

 

[Faybs]

Reverse flying is quite usual, most big ships use reverse flying while doing a U-turn. Since 2.1 sometimes - if triggered - NPCs do "normal" face tanking reverse flying.

If that behavior is increased in 2.2, then this is really bad news. It turns combat into a pure shield tanking numbers contest with not that much maneuvering needed.

It would be sad to see FD ruining the best part of their game - the one that involves flying a spaceship and trying to outmaneuver enemies in combat - by making the best option reverse flying and shield tanking.

I don't do much PvP, but my understanding is that reverse face tanking is what most CMDRs do, especially if they're flying big ships. It makes sense that NPCs should behave that way as well. I am a bit sad that big ships are just oversized fighters and not lumbering behemoths bristling with small turrets and a couple of huge but slow-tracking guns.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Three new things I've seen in Beta 2.2:

1. Took modded cannons to CZ. Reduced an Anaconda's powerplant to 0% intending then to shoot out other internals and its guns after it became paralysed.

Didn't become paralysed! Kept manoeuvring as normal.

Hence AI now has power priorities preset as more prudent Cmdrs do.

2. Same Anaconda: it then rebooted its powerplant to 2% health. Intrigued, I shot it back to 0% four times in total and four times it rebooted to 2% or 3%.

Obviously, AI now uses reboot/repair also. Can't recall precise rank but it definitely wasn't Deadly or Elite.

3. At Nav Beacon, dog fighting NPC's and saw two pull full, pronounced, reverski.

(So it ain't all good, then ... sigh ...)

I don't do much PvE so apologies if these three things aren't new but afaik they're 2.2 additions.

I'd be interested to know of any other more sophisticated behaviour others have observed.

This has been happening for ages. There's been threads about it.

I've done it myself. Taken an anaconda power plant to 0% and they continue to fire and manouver as normal until you take their hull to 0.

Feels more like a bug to me
I can't shoot and move when my power plant is at 30% let alone 0%

The AI runs on a separate set of rules.

Infinite jump distance
Unlimited ammo
Modded weapons
No effect on power plant damage
Crazy manouver ability
Crazy unrealistic accuracy with non gimballed weapons (plasma accelerator is one example)
No mass lock
Can hyperspace even when drive is damaged
Sidewinders can have dual plasma weapons but don't overheat and still fly around like they have an anaconda power plant

 

[nathdixon92]

In a big ship , I'd expect nothing less than shield tanking!

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

In a big ship , I'd expect nothing less than shield tanking!

But maybe not shield tanking and reverse flying.

That's a different topic since that is more about small vs. big ship balance or gameplay.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I don't do much PvP, but my understanding is that reverse face tanking is what most CMDRs do, especially if they're flying big ships. It makes sense that NPCs should behave that way as well. I am a bit sad that big ships are just oversized fighters and not lumbering behemoths bristling with small turrets and a couple of huge but slow-tracking guns.

I agree, the biggest ships should have mental shields and hull with loads of turret weapons, but be slower than a sloth on crack.

 

[Troy_McClure]

I agree, the biggest ships should have mental shields and hull with loads of turret weapons, but be slower than a sloth on crack.

Was a sloth just a bit too slow for your example..so to give it an intense high, energy boost, increased awareness etc you added the crack dependency?

Nice attention to detail or you don't know anything about drugs..one of the two

 

[Truesilver]

The power management to keep the ship maneuverable is new. Sure it wasn't just lag?

Oh, most definitely not lag. I abandoned my prior testing plan of dissecting this ship just to watch it manoeuvre during and after four successive reductions of its power plant to zero.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I can't shoot and move when my power plant is at 30% let alone 0%

This depends very much on ship and build, though - for example, a player Python with the right build and power priorities can function almost as normal with (unmodded) power plant at 0%.

 

[ForeverN00b]

Oh noes! Reverse face tanking in space where there is no atmosphere!

Seriously, the face tanking isn't the problem, it is the joke of a flight model. There is no "top speed" or "boost speed" in space.

The smaller ships should have better acceleration in all areas, to run circles around a Cutter as the Cutter keeps accelerating. BUT.....the problem is, the Angry Birds crowd and the COD crowd don't understand Newtonian physics, so FD had to dumb down the game. That being said, space physics still win even at a paltry 800 miles per hour. This ain't WWII Spitfires and Messerschmitts, folks.

 

[Siranui]

[h=2]More sophisticated new AI combat behaviour observed

[/h]
It uses a rapier?
Offers me a brandy beforehand?

 

[Soon(TM)]

Was a sloth just a bit too slow for your example..so to give it an intense high, energy boost, increased awareness etc you added the crack dependency?

Nice attention to detail or you don't know anything about drugs..one of the two

You've seen a sloth move right?

I mean, they barely move, so yeah, they need a little speed boost or the bigger ships would just be stations if they moved like a non drug dependant sloth.

 

[Siranui]

The AI runs on a separate set of rules.

Infinite jump distance
Unlimited ammo
Modded weapons
No effect on power plant damage
Crazy manouver ability
Crazy unrealistic accuracy with non gimballed weapons (plasma accelerator is one example)
No mass lock
Can hyperspace even when drive is damaged
Sidewinders can have dual plasma weapons but don't overheat and still fly around like they have an anaconda power plant

And yet they are still massively disadvantaged against us in almost every way, being brainless and unimaginative lines of code who need such minor advantages to make them some kind of challenge.

 

[ForeverN00b]

And yet they are still massively disadvantaged against us in almost every way, being brainless and unimaginative lines of code who need such minor advantages to make them some kind of challenge.

Beat the computer at chess, then we'll talk. The Beta 2.1 AI was way more fierce than what we have now, the devs had to draw a balance between the "too easy" crowd and the "too hard" crowd.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Crazy manouver ability

Only seems crazy if you're playing this game for 2 years now and still haven't noticed there's more to manouvering than pitch and roll and that putting 4 pips into engines at the right time gives a huge boost you manouverability. 1-1-4 is a "lazy" setting, which works .. kind of .. most of the time but not always.

Try this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...silver-s-Top-Tips-Beginner-s-Guide-VR-PvP-Vid
It's not just useful for circle strafing in PvP, using all 6 directions your ship can move (and mapping the respective thrusters to some controls), brings your manouverability up to where NPCs are.
Flying FA off even above that, since SJA said some time ago NPCs don't use FA off.

Crazy unrealistic accuracy with non gimballed weapons (plasma accelerator is one example)

They don't predict at all (as in "shooting where the opponent is going to be rather than where he currently is").
Full fixed loadout is the easiest to dodge of all NPC weapon loadouts. You can fly an unshielded Hauler and they don't hit you. But keep flying in a straight line.

And yet they are still massively disadvantaged against us in almost every way, being brainless and unimaginative lines of code who need such minor advantages to make them some kind of challenge.

The biggest disadvantage they have is that they rarely attack on their own. They even put in an artificial/pirate lore delay between getting interdicted and getting shot at.
As long as you have that much time to get your ship into a favorable position before opening fire, the poor guys will always lose.

 

[Truesilver]

++ STOP PRESS ++

My opening post in this thread has just been repped by SJA, Mistress of the Minions!!

Yay, validation!!!