Much higher Fuel cost for new ship???

[Mr. Woof]

Don't understand this thread. Fuel scoops should the first upgrade you make. If you can afford that cobra then surely you afford a half decent fuel scoop? I never pay for fuel. Really. It's that simple.

me <- puzzled

It's very easy: I don't want to be forced to scoop fuel after every flight and waste time doing it, because it's boring. In real life I don't want to waste time at the gas station every 100 kilometers, either if I can help it.

In addition I think it's not fair that the Cobra uses about 8-10x as much fuel as the Eagle does while only having a bit more than three times the mass. To go back to real life: a car weighing two tonnes often does not even use twice the amount of fuel a car weighing one tonne does.

Traditionally fuel was more or less a non-issue in Elite, Frontier and First Encounters. Here it still basically is if you've got a Sidewinder, an Eagle, an Adder or a Hauler. But as soon as you start to go for something bigger than that, the fuel costs "explode" for no apparent reason. I expect a larger ship to use more fuel, but it should make the same impact to the owner in relation to the mass of the craft. IMHO fuel should either be expensive for everybody or for nobody. I thought I'd read that the Devs want us to fly around and explore this 400 billion star Galaxy. But if operating costs are so high that I have actually to think about wasting fuel when flying around (or waste my time scooping fuel after each jump) than that's kind of counterproductive in my opinion. I want fun and action in a game and not some monotonous occupational therapy like fuel scooping.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Stellar bodies and I do not get along well. Not only am I a lousy pilot, it seems the sun deities do not like me. I always take damage using a scoop.

A "Scooping Computer" might be the next suicide device, after the docking computer. I tried the docking computer on the Cobra. Worked OK for outposts, but had big trouble landing on pads *after* you got in through the toaster slot at the big stations. Got rid of it after the first 300 credit fine.

I traded down to an Adder from a Cobra, for many of the same reasons mentioned. My fun is that of a small-ship captain, not a merchant prince. Both are valid playstyles, but I enjoy myself more exploring, which the Adder does fairly well. The cockpit, though...

 

[Hank]

I bought a Cobra several days ago and knew by reading these forums fuel costs were high so I took somebody's advice and bought a Fuel Scoop. The best piece of equipment you can have IMHO. I'm up to a C2 class scoop and I never have to buy gas. I still have the 16 ton fuel tank but could probably get by with an 8 ton.
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That's my advice ... those fuel scoops are worth their weight in credits. And learn to scoop; its not hard but watch a few video's first or you will burn up if not careful. (I haven't yet and don't think I ever will ... its not that hard but it is a little spooky the first few times)
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Have a nice day

 

[Conestoga]

Traditionally fuel was more or less a non-issue in Elite, Frontier and First Encounters ...IMHO fuel should either be expensive for everybody or for nobody ... But if operating costs are so high that I have actually to think about wasting fuel when flying around (or waste my time scooping fuel after each jump) than that's kind of counterproductive in my opinion.

I don't want to put words in Frontier's proverbial mouth, but... The design decision was made that fuel limitations are part of the gameplay. Fundamentally, all operating costs go up as your ship gets more expensive as a first principle. The justification in the lore comes afterwards and sometimes may not make apparent sense, and any explanation in-game they provide should be recognized for what it is: retcanon. That's not a bad thing IMO. They view that it improves the challenge and gameplay, and that's the second thing a great professional game designer thinks about.

One might argue, as you have, that that's not fun and poor game design. But you know what they say about opinions...

 

[Kitiara]

When trading, it's pretty inconceivable to have the fuel costs for a trip exceed the profit on an additional 4 tonnes of cargo.

If you make more profit on 4 tonnes than the fuel costs, you should be putting a cargo rack in that size 2 slot, not a scoop. If the reverse is true, you should find a new route.

If you're not trading (like in my exploration cobra), then whether you fit a scoop or not is more a matter of choice. Of course, for long long trips without stations, a scoop is required (I have an A4 on mine). For mission running and combat, it's optional. I prefer docking rather than scooping, but that's just personal preference.

 

[Faerie]

Hi pilots,

I changed from my old "Hauler" to my new "Cobra MK III".
I'm flying the same route like before: ~8.8 LY costs me ~25 CR when refulling with the "Hauler".
But with the "Cobra" it costs me ~850 CR!!!!!
thats 34x times higher as before!

Is this normal?

regards,
Sandmann001

The stock Cobra is notoriously "thirsty", possibly because it's drive is struggling to haul it's mass. An upgraded drive uses less fuel over the same distance. (Trust me, I've done it)

 

[Mr. Woof]

I don't want to put words in Frontier's proverbial mouth, but... The design decision was made that fuel limitations are part of the gameplay. Fundamentally, all operating costs go up as your ship gets more expensive as a first principle. The justification in the lore comes afterwards and sometimes may not make apparent sense, and any explanation in-game they provide should be recognized for what it is: retcanon. That's not a bad thing IMO. They view that it improves the challenge and gameplay, and that's the second thing a great professional game designer thinks about.

One might argue, as you have, that that's not fun and poor game design. But you know what they say about opinions...

Well if there is fuel in the game, or course it should be limited and cost something. No harm in that. Otherwise it'd be completely stupid. And as I said before larger ships should use more fuel. Agreed on that too. But it's a question of proportionality. A ship three times as heavy shouldn't consume ten times as much fuel.

The funny thing is, that the Cobra's fuel tank interestingly enough gives me almost double the range as the Eagle's (which would correspond exactly to the specs which say that the Cobra has double the fuel tank capacity). So the Cobra does not actually consume MORE fuel. It actually consumes about the amount you get in the specs in the Outfitting Hangar: not more than 2T per jump.

So the only explanation for the higher fuel costs is that the fuel you need for the Cobra is just more expensive than the fuel for an Eagle ... Since both use Hydrogen as fuel it must be a tax thing ...

Design decision and philosphy aside. If you implent something like that you should at least make it logical and believable.

The stock Cobra is notoriously "thirsty", possibly because it's drive is struggling to haul it's mass. An upgraded drive uses less fuel over the same distance. (Trust me, I've done it)

Thanks. Will try as soon as I can scrounge up some money ...

 

[Sams]

If you think the fuel is bad... wait until you get a tiny scratch on the bigger ships and then see the repair bill for that scratch

Python's are a whole heap of fun but you need a whole heap of money to enjoy the fun

 

[MirageGuardian]

To the OP.

I upgraded from an Adder to a Cobra. Nearly feel off my seat when I found out that 1 unit of fuel was now 10x more expensive.

I can understand filling a 16 unit fuel tanking costing more than an 8 unit fuel tank, but why is the fuel per unit more expensive?.

At the moment it feels to me like I have an Escort I have to pay £1 per litre, the next person comes onto the garage forecourt with a Jag and they are told they have to pay £10 per litre.

Running with a fuel scoop now to offset the cost of fuel.

Sure fuel costs increase but the game seems to do this instead of just higher compsumptions.
You a have a Renault you pay 1€/L you have a Ferrari u pay 10€/L
That aint right.

 

[remosito]

10LY jump in a L9 costs 25k. And that's with an Max class A FSD.

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If you think the fuel is bad... wait until you get a tiny scratch on the bigger ships and then see the repair bill for that scratch

Python's are a whole heap of fun but you need a whole heap of money to enjoy the fun

got 7% dmg yesterday on my L9 from interdiction. cost me 180 grands to repair ;-)

 

[Endziel]

(if your temp starts rising above 100 , soon your ship will start taking damage)

Wrong, you can let the temp rise to 130-140 quite easily before any damage is taken.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I agree that a ton of fuels should cost the same no matter the ship. Making it different is a horrible mechanic, and fuel scoops are just a work-around. If they want to scale up costs for game balance reasons, they should scale up the amount of fuel used by bigger/faster ships, not make the same fuel cost more.

Does anybody know if the weight of fuel in your engine tanks affects your jump range? As in, can you jump farther when you're closer to empty? Because if it does not, perhaps the tonnage rating of a tank is for the tank itself rather than the fuel inside. That is a 2T tank is the mass of the materials to make the tank which holds some volume of fuel, but a 16T tank would hold vastly more fuel because volume increases as a cube function while the mass of the tank (read surface area) increases as a squared function. There are a couple of problems with this idea - namely the way scoops work and how you can fill the fuel tank from hydrogen in cargo (read about but personally untested). Even with those problems, though, this idea makes more logical sense than the price ratcheting up with the cost of the ship.

 

[SilentMage]

Does anybody know if the weight of fuel in your engine tanks affects your jump range? As in, can you jump farther when you're closer to empty?

Though I haven't experienced the results of flying near-empty on a larger ship, the answer to your question is yes. There were several threads here where others confirmed that the fuel in your ship does impact your travel distance, so if you're near-empty, you will be able to technically travel further (in terms of LY) than you would if your tank was full.