Ship Builds & Load Outs Multi-Cannon changes

[Lazerus Artificial]

Actually I think the real reason they don't exist is that a six meter wide twelve meter long (or whatever the numbers are) minigun just looked stupid. No other reason.

What you suggest does exist with missiles and needs to exist with more weapons.

That being said, I wouldn't be against the no-clip multi-cannon, if its spin up time was a third of a second longer.

i remember a quote about that, i think that was actually the real reason for it. a large multicannon would have looked stupid.

balance wouldnt be that hard, even our other 4 size weapons are not that much different from eachother, the biggest difference is the penetration value against larger ships. a size 1 cannon should have a hard time penetrating a conda, while a size 4 cannon doest that with ease, but still doesnt onehit a sidewinder.

edit: here is the dev update that describes the damage model
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170205

So a small pulse laser (20) would deal full damage to a sidewinder (also 20), but less than a third damage to an anaconda (65). The main intent of this mechanic is not to penalise small ships, but to make large weapons effective against large ships without one-shotting smaller vessels - they don't actually do that much more flat damage than a small weapon but by piercing much better are far more effective against the harder target.

edit 2: wasnt it said that we will get a large multicannon this season?
also what about this?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=130531&page=2&p=1999751#post1999751

 

[slothman320]

That's quite large. I'd adjust my numbers to .50 cal bmg for the small multi and then 25mm for the medium. Without a visual aid I can't quite make an educated guess.

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Also I really believe that if you want automatic physical weaponry throw out the rotary cannon concept and go for just a really big machine gun. Auto cannons are cool, slow sustainable chugging fire that does the equivalent of a class 3 multicannons in terms of DPS but is actually firing fewer shots in more time to do it.

 

[CariadocThorne]

Also I really believe that if you want automatic physical weaponry throw out the rotary cannon concept and go for just a really big machine gun. Auto cannons are cool, slow sustainable chugging fire that does the equivalent of a class 3 multicannons in terms of DPS but is actually firing fewer shots in more time to do it.

This is something I've said before too.

The larger MC could easily be a single barreled weapon with a much slower rate of fire. Base DPS when firing would only need to be a little higher than the class 2 (which should alleviate concerns about balance), the longer periods of sustained fire before reloading would boost the DPS over time, and being a large weapon it wouldn't suffer the penalty against large hulls, further increasing effective DPS. It would also last a lot longer without needing to restock, making it more sustainable.

Finally, with only one barrel, there would be no need for "spin-up time" further increasing its usefullness.

 

[slothman320]

Honestly I really want the multi cannons to have better sound effect when you shoot them besides the "ring a ding" of you hitting your target. It's too quiet, too subtle. This is a MINIGUN and one of my ultimate pet peeves for ANYTHING with a MINIGUN in it is when they don't sound very good or aren't very effective. That thing is the pinnacle of rapid fire ballistics technology and it sounds like someone rattling a drawer full of silverware. Come on FD beams missiles and even the POINT DEFENSE sound good why can't we have a good sounding multicannons

 

[Psycho Romeo]

The larger MC could easily be a single barreled weapon with a much slower rate of fire.

As I understand, we're getting large/huge burst fire weapons not unlike what stations have. I believe they're calling it the auto-cannon and it's very much like the rapid cannon in CQC.

 

[slothman320]

As I understand, we're getting large/huge burst fire weapons not unlike what stations have. I believe they're calling it the auto-cannon and it's very much like the rapid cannon in CQC.

So can someone explain to me WHY THERES GUNS IN CQC THAT ARENT IN THE REST OF THE GAME?!? What in gods name frontier?!?

 

[Psycho Romeo]

So can someone explain to me WHY THERES GUNS IN CQC THAT ARENT IN THE REST OF THE GAME?!? What in gods name frontier?!?

Because CQC ships operate under a different set of constraints and rules than live.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

So can someone explain to me WHY THERES GUNS IN CQC THAT ARENT IN THE REST OF THE GAME?!? What in gods name frontier?!?

Because CQC ships operate under a different set of constraints and rules than live.

Also it was never said that we wont get them.
The Plasma Repeater for example is in the main-game, some NPCs use it...we just can buy it yet.
And some of the weapons like the heatbeam are also kinda there, atleast the effects of them.
I think we will see more of them with the Crafting update

 

[slothman320]

Also it was never said that we wont get them.
The Plasma Repeater for example is in the main-game, some NPCs use it...we just can buy it yet.
And some of the weapons like the heatbeam are also kinda there, atleast the effects of them.
I think we will see more of them with the Crafting update

But why can't we buy them? If its in use for PVP and the AI use it then clearly its a balanced weapon or it wouldn't be present. With how starved for hardware we already are and people begging for more variety wouldn't it make sense to let us buy the thing we're already asking for that is in the game and right in front of our faces?

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

But why can't we buy them? If its in use for PVP and the AI use it then clearly its a balanced weapon or it wouldn't be present. With how starved for hardware we already are and people begging for more variety wouldn't it make sense to let us buy the thing we're already asking for that is in the game and right in front of our faces?

Soon™

the current weapons are not finished, not balanced or work perfect.
i want to have working missiles that i can use against ships other than a sidewinder, i want a setup that doesnt use pulse lasers only...
yes i want more variety, but also i want a working, balances weaponsystem.

 

[slothman320]

Soon™

the current weapons are not finished, not balanced or work perfect.
i want to have working missiles that i can use against ships other than a sidewinder, i want a setup that doesnt use pulse lasers only...
yes i want more variety, but also i want a working, balances weaponsystem.

That's my main issue with this games combat. I love the game. It's fun to dog fight and it's a beautiful looking game. The ships are fun to fly. But the guns man. Unless you've got a large amount of hard points you can't mix up your weaponry. It takes a good number of hard points to fit the proper weaponry to deal reliable damage. I want to be able to have multiple weapons but they aren't very good. Pulse larges are the best weapon in the game right now.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

That's my main issue with this games combat. I love the game. It's fun to dog fight and it's a beautiful looking game. The ships are fun to fly. But the guns man. Unless you've got a large amount of hard points you can't mix up your weaponry. It takes a good number of hard points to fit the proper weaponry to deal reliable damage. I want to be able to have multiple weapons but they aren't very good. Pulse larges are the best weapon in the game right now.

That's a personal issue. Once you get four hard points or so you have plenty of room to fit what you need.

 

[slothman320]

That's a personal issue. Once you get four hard points or so you have plenty of room to fit what you need.

My issue is that if you want physical damage two multi cannons aren't going to do the trick, same with energy. In order to keep up your DPS you'll need one of two things: the ability to stay on target no matter what, or have enough weapons that the time you do get to engage your target you can make up for the down time

 

[Psycho Romeo]

My issue is that if you want physical damage two multi cannons aren't going to do the trick, same with energy. In order to keep up your DPS you'll need one of two things: the ability to stay on target no matter what, or have enough weapons that the time you do get to engage your target you can make up for the down time

Maybe you're rather new but this doesn't reflect reality very well. Two multi-cannons are incredibly powerful, and just because you're not bottoming out your distributor all the time doesn't mean you're not being efficient.

The reality is that there are some tradeoffs involved, but it's not nearly as bad as you describe.

 

[slothman320]

Maybe you're rather new but this doesn't reflect reality very well. Two multi-cannons are incredibly powerful, and just because you're not bottoming out your distributor all the time doesn't mean you're not being efficient.

The reality is that there are some tradeoffs involved, but it's not nearly as bad as you describe.

240+ hours and 89% master. Multicannons are far from "incredibly powerful".

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The only time I've found my multicannons effective is when I had four mounted on my FDL and could use my PA to drop shields.

 

[CariadocThorne]

My main build on my DBS uses a PA and 3 frag cannons. Since they are all fixed, you aren't firing continuosly, only during brief windows when you are lined up on target as you twist and turn. The PA and frags deal massive damage during those short windows of opportunity, and just 2 pips to weapons is more than enough to sustain fire, even against bigger, clumsier ships which are easier to line up shots against.

I've also used all fixed frag recently on the DBS, and I've actually been destroying NPC targets of all sizes as quickly or quicker than I ever did with gimballed laser and MC combos. And it only needs a single pip to weapons.

I've also used railgun and gimballed cannon combos to good effect against larger targets for extreme PP sniping, although it struggles a bit against small nimble targets.

I think most of the weapons in the game are actually pretty well balanced. That includes lasers, MCs, Railguns, cannons, frag cannons and PAs. You just have to know what each weapon is good for and what isn't good for.

That said there are certainly a few missiles, sorry, I mean weapons, which definitely need rebalancing.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Multicannons are far from "incredibly powerful".

They're extremely effective against both shields and appropriately sized hulls. Multi-cannons are a reliable, long lasting, high velocity kinetic. If you're struggling to find this effective it's probably a result of target choice or piloting skill.