Multi-Crew Exploration

[CDR Michael Darkmoor]

I like the idea that a stranded CMDR might be able to be rescued by joining the crew of the rescuer...
That an SRV from one ship might be able to be accepted by another.
Logistics would actually become a "Thing" then.
.
A trip to Sag A* in < 280 jumps seems very possible (using a maxed Conda, J3's and a navigator)
Might even be able to get there in around 4-5 hours.
.
While I agree in general principle, that once everyone has had enough of the "shiny' it may well be ignored...
It certainly adds a great many new and different possible ways to go about it.

 

[Col Frost]

I personally love the idea of NPC multicrew. Having bums to fill all those empty seats in my Anaconda.
An NPC who could fly a small ship launched fighter while I fly the main ship. Obviously their skills would improve over time too.
I could get some use for that second SRV which I regret bringing and which never gets used as well.

 

[Ziljan]

How would you hand control of your ship over to someone else though when you log off? I mean, couldn't that CMDR just crash into a planet while you were away? Accidentally or intentionally?

And if they couldn't control the ship when you were logged off, what the heck would they do if you decided to go on vacation in the middle of a long trip? Just twiddle their thumbs? Eject, and get a free trip back to the bubble? Would they get to keep the exploration data? Who would get the naming rights, since the ejected pilot would obviously get back to the bubble first? (would have to be shared cred imo)

As I'm sure you can see, multi-crew raises a LOT of "legal" questions.

 

[Jaiotu]

The key question for me is whether or not additional commanders participating in multicrew will also earn credits and experience toward Pilots Federation ranking. Basically: Will a 2nd Commander be able to 'hitch a ride' on a honk-and-scoop trip to Sagittarius A* and simply walk away, go to sleep, go to work, whatever while the pilot earns him credits and rank? What safeguards will be in place to make sure that all crew members are actually participating?

 

[xondk]

The more I think about it, the better it sounds - depending on how FD will implement it.

I think it could work like this:
- First CMDR logs into session will be in the pilot seat
- If joined by another CMDR on board, he/she would sit in any of the available seats (as much as I can't stand Asp, it's lower deck looks nice for example)
- On demand the piloting seat could be switched
- Co-pilot could search the map and do route plotting
- If in a nice system, the additional ship(s) could be dispatched for detailed exploration

Some of us would probably even pay to have a seat on Allitnil's ship.

Now that was an interesting idea, maybe additionally if people in the ship shared the information scanned, maybe even while logged out?
That way for example 2 commanders could keep exploring 24/7 essentially working in shifts, or more then 2?
USS Enterconda?
USS Condaprise?

 

[Mengy]

How would you hand control of your ship over to someone else though when you log off? I mean, couldn't that CMDR just crash into a planet while you were away? Accidentally or intentionally?

And if they couldn't control the ship when you were logged off, what the heck would they do if you decided to go on vacation in the middle of a long trip? Just twiddle their thumbs? Eject, and get a free trip back to the bubble? Would they get to keep the exploration data? Who would get the naming rights, since the ejected pilot would obviously get back to the bubble first? (would have to be shared cred imo)

As I'm sure you can see, multi-crew raises a LOT of "legal" questions.

Yes it does, too many questions to make it practical IMHO.

I almost think the only way they can feasibly make multi-crew happen is like this: when you log in to the main menu you get a new option to join up with another player on your friend's list as part of their crew, and at that point a few rules would apply:

- you are now a crew member, not a commander
- the owner of the ship controls the game, and if the commander logs out then you get kicked back to the main menu
- some form of seat switching will probably be available, but only at the discretion of the commander
- some form of credit or exploration data sharing takes place while playing as a crew member
- the crewmember does not risk anything that their own commander has in game. For example, if I die as part of Ziljan's crew I would not lose any exploration data I might have in my own Asp out by the Crab Nebula, my Asp is safe and sound elsewhere. Ziljan of course loses everything!

This is how I envision it will be, or something very similar.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

I think I remember it being said that CMDRs would need to be in a wing in order to multicrew a ship. I could be wrong or it could have changed since then (it was a long time ago and I don't remember when). If that is the case, then I would guess that when the wing leader/ship owner leaves the game, then the other wingmen would find themselves back in their ships. The limitations to multicrew activities are therefore likely to be the result of the wing mechanics but I would hope that it might be possible, for example, for someone out exploring to accept a wing request from someone in the bubble and immediately effectively log out of their previous ship/location (leaving that ship where it was as if they'd logged to main menu) and into the wing leader's crew to act as navigator (or whatever role they were needed for).

 

[Mike W]

I think I remember it being said that CMDRs would need to be in a wing in order to multicrew a ship. I could be wrong or it could have changed since then (it was a long time ago and I don't remember when). If that is the case, then I would guess that when the wing leader/ship owner leaves the game, then the other wingmen would find themselves back in their ships. The limitations to multicrew activities are therefore likely to be the result of the wing mechanics but I would hope that it might be possible, for example, for someone out exploring to accept a wing request from someone in the bubble and immediately effectively log out of their previous ship/location (leaving that ship where it was as if they'd logged to main menu) and into the wing leader's crew to act as navigator (or whatever role they were needed for).

I'm thinking that this multicrew thingie is a bad idea for exploration, even just as far as the travelling goes, and not even getting into the who flies the ship, and when, who gets what, and when and how, and what happens to crew members if one or all others are offline. However they go about Multicrew, anything that allows a Cmdr to be in the bubble one second, and part of a ships crew thousands of LY away the next, and or back in the bubble, or anywhere else the next, flying another ship, Je think not. As far as exploring goes, you leave on the ship, you come back on the ship, or in a box [cool]

 

[Allitnil]

That's pretty much it. The only way to avoid exploits would be if you could only join or leave a ship if it was docked at a station, thereby making it pointless for exploration. Anything else is just going to provide a mechanism for the pay to win merchants. Want to get that > 5K LY from home stat to access Palin or just visit Sag A*? Just pay $5 to join the ship of a CMDR already out there. We all know this will happen if the game doesn't explicitly stop it.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

That's pretty much it. The only way to avoid exploits would be if you could only join or leave a ship if it was docked at a station, thereby making it pointless for exploration. Anything else is just going to provide a mechanism for the pay to win merchants. Want to get that > 5K LY from home stat to access Palin or just visit Sag A*? Just pay $5 to join the ship of a CMDR already out there. We all know this will happen if the game doesn't explicitly stop it.

It all depends on the execution. If it is done right, no harm will be done for solo exploration.

But this highlights how utterly difficult it is for FD to please everyone with an update. Pretty much impossible...

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

However they go about Multicrew, anything that allows a Cmdr to be in the bubble one second, and part of a ships crew thousands of LY away the next, and or back in the bubble, or anywhere else the next, flying another ship, Je think not. As far as exploring goes, you leave on the ship, you come back on the ship, or in a box [cool]

+1

I know FD have a history of making nonsensical gameplay decisions, but surely they aren't as short-sighted as to do something as hideous as that? They must realize what a complete mockery of the whole game something like that will be and how it would pretty much ruin any chance of emergent gameplay.

Short cuts around the galaxy was one thing the devs were adamant would never be implemented back in the design discussion days - I hope they haven't forgotten how vehemently they defended that decision when players asked for wormholes and super highway jumpgates to far off places. If they turn multicrew into another gimmick Mr Braben needs to sit up and begin seriously questioning the people who are making such decisions, because I don't think they're coming from him anymore.

 

[mls]

Personally i have no worries about the multicrew feature for exploration, as long as it is implemented in a realistic way (like if it were a real exploration).

For me that would mean, i have to dock at a port and can only join on someones ship when it's docked at the same port. I would get assigned a position within the crew and my own ship is then stored at the station. This means you can only go multicrew at stations with a shipyard (not sure if that's a good thing yet).

Then you fly along with your mate in his ship and if one goes to sleep, the other one can take over just like on a real ship where people can leave the bridge and go about their own business and the rest of the crew continues to operate the vessel.
Of course the actual owner should be able to lock the ships systems for everyone else so when he goes offline he can prevent the other crew members from wrecking the ship by accident. This can be very useful when you have a friend who is a very bad pilot that wants to tag along your exploration to try it out. You wouldn't want him to disintegrate your ship into some star or a planetary surface.

The thing about the received exploration data is another thing and i currently see two legitimate options. One, everyone aboard the vessel gets all the data received while on the ship. Good thing for teamwork exploration, bad thing for exploits where you'd just take 3 of your mates on your cruise and effectively multiply the rewards by 4. Two, everyone on the ships gets the data received while on the ship and logged into the game so you can still work in shifts but you'd only get the rewards for your own shift.
The first i actually like better because i can see no logical explanation that would prevent sharing exploration data between crew members on the same ship tho I'm sure someone can figure it out.

The next important thing for me would be materials. When you go down in several srvs and start prospecting, the gathered materials would obviously be assigned to the crew member gathering the materials. But when it comes to using them for synthesis on the ship it would be nice if everyone aboard can throw in some mats into the pot.

Then there is the dying thing ...
When the ship goes, everyone goes except for those on the surface in an srv. I can't really see why it shouldn't be possible to drop someone off on a planet and then go back to cruising in the ship (regarding realism, not technical issues). Then you'd have to go back for your crew members and pick them up again.
When an srv goes then respawn on the ship just like now which also solves the problem about when you sit in your srv and the ship face planted a mountain. You can decide to keep driving on the surface and gather mats to stay alive until someone comes to pick you up (you essentially board another ship) or you blow up your srv to get respawned back at the ship which means back at the last docked port.
This would make deep space rescue missions very attractive. There is this commander that cracked his canopy so he's stuck on some planet 40kly from sol but his exploration data is stored with him in his srv. Someone else comes along and picks him up, getting a decent chunk of his data as reward so the stranded guy doesn't lose everything and gets back home safe.

just a few thoughts ...
mls

Edit: i like this idea very much and think this could be very cool or even cooler. Not sure which way it's gonna go tho.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Personally i have no worries about the multicrew feature for exploration, as long as it is implemented in a realistic way (like if it were a real exploration).

For me that would mean, i have to dock at a port and can only join on someones ship when it's docked at the same port. I would get assigned a position within the crew and my own ship is then stored at the station. This means you can only go multicrew at stations with a shipyard (not sure if that's a good thing yet).

Then you fly along with your mate in his ship and if one goes to sleep, the other one can take over just like on a real ship where people can leave the bridge and go about their own business and the rest of the crew continues to operate the vessel.
Of course the actual owner should be able to lock the ships systems for everyone else so when he goes offline he can prevent the other crew members from wrecking the ship by accident. This can be very useful when you have a friend who is a very bad pilot that wants to tag along your exploration to try it out. You wouldn't want him to disintegrate your ship into some star or a planetary surface.

The thing about the received exploration data is another thing and i currently see two legitimate options. One, everyone aboard the vessel gets all the data received while on the ship. Good thing for teamwork exploration, bad thing for exploits where you'd just take 3 of your mates on your cruise and effectively multiply the rewards by 4. Two, everyone on the ships gets the data received while on the ship and logged into the game so you can still work in shifts but you'd only get the rewards for your own shift.
The first i actually like better because i can see no logical explanation that would prevent sharing exploration data between crew members on the same ship tho I'm sure someone can figure it out.

The next important thing for me would be materials. When you go down in several srvs and start prospecting, the gathered materials would obviously be assigned to the crew member gathering the materials. But when it comes to using them for synthesis on the ship it would be nice if everyone aboard can throw in some mats into the pot.

Then there is the dying thing ...
When the ship goes, everyone goes except for those on the surface in an srv. I can't really see why it shouldn't be possible to drop someone off on a planet and then go back to cruising in the ship (regarding realism, not technical issues). Then you'd have to go back for your crew members and pick them up again.
When an srv goes then respawn on the ship just like now which also solves the problem about when you sit in your srv and the ship face planted a mountain. You can decide to keep driving on the surface and gather mats to stay alive until someone comes to pick you up (you essentially board another ship) or you blow up your srv to get respawned back at the ship which means back at the last docked port.
This would make deep space rescue missions very attractive. There is this commander that cracked his canopy so he's stuck on some planet 40kly from sol but his exploration data is stored with him in his srv. Someone else comes along and picks him up, getting a decent chunk of his data as reward so the stranded guy doesn't lose everything and gets back home safe.

just a few thoughts ...
mls

Edit: i like this idea very much and think this could be very cool or even cooler. Not sure which way it's gonna go tho.

I agree with everything here except the part about having to be in a station to join a crew. I think it should be possible to have people join your crew out in the depths too - for example if you're a lone explorer whose ship is somehow destroyed while you're in your SRV, you're essentially marooned unless another ship comes by, lands, and allows you to hop aboard and join their crew. The point is, you have to be physically present with the ship you want to join, before you can join.

Rescue missions and other emergent play should be in the thoughts of the designers when they begin talking about this expansion.

Another thing they should consider are small drone craft like imperial fighters - but used solely for localized exploration. So each crew member has access to small exploration ships as well as SRVs when they land on a planet to explore.

I like the idea of the ship owner, the captain, being able to give roles to other members who can take control of the ship and fly it at times when others are offline. This would encourage people to trust their crew, befriend them etc, anyone handing control over to some random guy they picked up along the way should be aware of the consequences if random guy decided to crash the ship on purpose. If people understand the risks from the outset they're usually sensible enough to work with them.

I think the biggest issue for FD to overcome is the boredom factor for crew on long trips - what can they do while the commander does the flying? I think that is stuff that can be fleshed out over time and needn't be there from day one of multicrew release - people on the whole would understand interesting non-piloting activities are something that would probably need an expansion of its own (possibly when we can walk around in ships).

 

[mls]

I agree with everything here except the part about having to be in a station to join a crew. I think it should be possible to have people join your crew out in the depths too - for example if you're a lone explorer whose ship is somehow destroyed while you're in your SRV, you're essentially marooned unless another ship comes by, lands, and allows you to hop aboard and join their crew. The point is, you have to be physically present with the ship you want to join, before you can join.

Rescue missions and other emergent play should be in the thoughts of the designers when they begin talking about this expansion.

Another thing they should consider are small drone craft like imperial fighters - but used solely for localized exploration. So each crew member has access to small exploration ships as well as SRVs when they land on a planet to explore.

I like the idea of the ship owner, the captain, being able to give roles to other members who can take control of the ship and fly it at times when others are offline. This would encourage people to trust their crew, befriend them etc, anyone handing control over to some random guy they picked up along the way should be aware of the consequences if random guy decided to crash the ship on purpose. If people understand the risks from the outset they're usually sensible enough to work with them.

I think the biggest issue for FD to overcome is the boredom factor for crew on long trips - what can they do while the commander does the flying? I think that is stuff that can be fleshed out over time and needn't be there from day one of multicrew release - people on the whole would understand interesting non-piloting activities are something that would probably need an expansion of its own (possibly when we can walk around in ships).

Totally agree with you too.

My thoughts on the boarding at stations was the following. If you can board on planets too, what happens to your own ship then? So either you can only board at stations or - which i like a lot better - you can only board at a station when you're with your own ship but you can board anywhere when your ship is in a different system (destroyed while you were in your srv or maybe one of the exploration drones you described which i totally want right now btw )

 

[Mengy]

I think some of you are expecting too much. They put CQC into the game as a mode where even an explorer on the far side of the galaxy can quickly log in and dogfight with anyone else from anywhere else in the galaxy. Multi crew will be a mode with convenience put in as a larger priority over realism, and FDev will have no problem with that. Although a lot of us would not have any issue with a “realistic” version of MC like what mls posted above, can you imagine how the combat and pirate crowd would react to that? They’d scream bloody murder and raise all manner of a fuss. FDev won’t do anything to make them upset, there are just too many drawbacks to a realistic approach, it’s too limiting for most action oriented players. I’m betting that MC will be as simple as a new mode you log into from the menu screen where you just log in and pick a commander from your friends list who has also logged into the multi crew mode, and you can just pick a vacant seat on someone’s ship to fill.

Fighters in 2.2 will probably be similar, the fighter seat will just be another “seat” in the multi crew ship that you can log in and fill.

That’s my gut feeling based on FDev’s track record so far.