Murder in Space - How it can be punished.

[Snarfbuckle]

We all know that there are people who interdict and just blow people up with a puny 6000C penalty.

It's a puny punishment that does not fit the crime or the universe.

No-One likes killers, not even killers. Why? It attracts attention and attention attracts either the law or bigger fish that gets their business ruined.

First, lets remove the places you DONT get a fine for murder.

-Anarchy Systems

There, done.

The problem here is that even WITHIN an anarchy system you still rock the boat with killing sprees and that might make the local governent angry. Also, two people play a part in a murder, or rather 4, 2 pilots and 2 ships.

EVERYONE knows that X murdered Y because Y's ship sent a databurst to Z which also X did where the confirmation is done that X really shot Y.

Long story for a small idea really.

A Solution/Help

-Attacker takes a direct reputation hit to ALL minor system factions within the system
-Attacker takes a reputation hit towards the major faction supporting the system

And the big one
-Attacker takes a reputation hit to the PILOTS FEDERATION on his Combat ELITE rating due to 'conduct unbecoming' of a Pilot Federation member.

Assassination Mission Trouble
This of course can put a dent into anyone hunting X ships in Y system since you are essentially killing people willy-nilly.

In this case it's a legitimate mission for a faction so the ELITE rating remains unafffected and the faction you are doing the job for of course.

Effect of this idea
Long term effect of this is that people will simply not like that insane serial killer anymore and he would be wanted, attacked, denied docking rights or balatantly fired upon by everyone in civilized space.

 

[lonewarrior]

We all know that there are people who interdict and just blow people up with a puny 6000C penalty.

It's a puny punishment that does not fit the crime or the universe.

No-One likes killers, not even killers. Why? It attracts attention and attention attracts either the law or bigger fish that gets their business ruined.

First, lets remove the places you DONT get a fine for murder.

-Anarchy Systems

There, done.

The problem here is that even WITHIN an anarchy system you still rock the boat with killing sprees and that might make the local governent angry. Also, two people play a part in a murder, or rather 4, 2 pilots and 2 ships.

EVERYONE knows that X murdered Y because Y's ship sent a databurst to Z which also X did where the confirmation is done that X really shot Y.

Long story for a small idea really.

A Solution/Help

-Attacker takes a direct reputation hit to ALL minor system factions within the system
-Attacker takes a reputation hit towards the major faction supporting the system

And the big one
-Attacker takes a reputation hit to the PILOTS FEDERATION on his Combat ELITE rating due to 'conduct unbecoming' of a Pilot Federation member.

Assassination Mission Trouble
This of course can put a dent into anyone hunting X ships in Y system since you are essentially killing people willy-nilly.

In this case it's a legitimate mission for a faction so the ELITE rating remains unafffected and the faction you are doing the job for of course.

Effect of this idea
Long term effect of this is that people will simply not like that insane serial killer anymore and he would be wanted, attacked, denied docking rights or balatantly fired upon by everyone in civilized space.

So basically the effect of this will remove power play from the game

 

[Snarfbuckle]

So basically the effect of this will remove power play from the game

Not at all.

Faction VS Faction warfare/assassination would count as a mission for your faction. Im talking about people who shoot people for no other reason that for "fun".

How do you figure PP would be removed from the game?

 

[Raf von Thorn]

Why do you want turn "Elite: Dangerous" into "Elite: Daycare"?

 

[Kirk-Fu]

Not at all.

Faction VS Faction warfare/assassination would count as a mission for your faction. Im talking about people who shoot people for no other reason that for "fun".

How do you figure PP would be removed from the game?

Powerplay agents are tasked with conducting illegal undercover operations in friendly or hostile territory for the benefit of a political figure who is influencing but not answerable to a minor or major faction. Very few tasks required of them are considered legal by local minor factions and getting a bounty for your work is practically expected of you. Without unrealistic legal loopholes to allow powerplay agents to murder each other without repercussion destroying their careers galaxywide would end powerplay for good.

 

[robbyp]

A major part of the game is to be on the lookout for killers. You have to be able to defend yourself. If you can't, ED is big enough to get away from them. Just go to the outer systems and you'll be in peace with only NPCs to worry about.

As regards penalties for Murder, i'm not sure a psychopath cares about any of your penalties.

No change required in my mind.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Why do you want turn "Elite: Dangerous" into "Elite: Daycare"?

Did I say I want that?

Murder in the game right now IS Elite: Daycare.

Elite is dangerous for non-combat professions but daycare for killers.

Is the universe "dangerous" for murderers in Elite? 6000c bounty/fine is hardly something dangerous.

 

[Ozmodion]

Why do you want turn "Elite: Dangerous" into "Elite: Daycare"?

lol yes please mummy.

 

[Jaeger]

Step 1 : Stop punishing the victim with egregious death penalties

Step 2 : develop an engaging competitive game not based on grief mechanics

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Powerplay agents are tasked with conducting illegal undercover operations in friendly or hostile territory for the benefit of a political figure who is influencing but not answerable to a minor or major faction. Very few tasks required of them are considered legal by local minor factions and getting a bounty for your work is practically expected of you. Without unrealistic legal loopholes to allow powerplay agents to murder each other without repercussion destroying their careers galaxywide would end powerplay for good.

Well, in the case of faction vs faction ships, both ships/pilots belong to warring factions.

Since the galaxywide computer system that handles fines, missions and other things seems to know everything it would simply not report faction vs faction killings to any other faction.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I am against making Anarchy less anarchic.

My solution would be to triple murder bounties for killing unarmed vessels that are non-powerplay enemies. Basically those that pew pew traders and explorers for fun get bigger bounties, those who engage powerplay enemies or other combat vessels are ok.
Lore reason for this: Stations want to protect their primary source of income and resources. Traders are essential for stations. (not really got a good lore reason for explorers but whatever )

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Yeah then traders will refuse to drop cargo because they know if the pirate kills to many of them which is easy to do even when targeting subs when they run that they won't be able to do anything. Whether you like it or not pirates and assassins are advertised as professions in this game

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Step 1 : Stop punishing the victim with egregious death penalties

Step 2 : develop an engaging competitive game not based on grief mechanics

This as well.

People out for blood and shooting people simply because they CAN very seldom faces serious opposition and are not facing the cost of serious monetary cost to replace ship and cargo.

 

[hanks01]

First, lets remove the places you DONT get a fine for murder.

-Anarchy Systems

There, done.

A Solution/Help

-Attacker takes a direct reputation hit to ALL minor system factions within the system
-Attacker takes a reputation hit towards the major faction supporting the system

So you'd remove the major differentiation between anarchy systems and every other system of governance thus making them irrelevant.

Minor factions do have kill missions for traders, bounty hunters etc so why would you get a rep drop for doing the dangerous work (not to mention carrying a bounty and becoming a target) in that system.

These suggestions would destroy piracy, invalidate most combat outside of combat zones; who would pvp bounty hunt if nobody ever wanted to take the steps to get wanted and essentially force everyone into just trading, mining and exploration.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Why do you want turn "Elite: Dangerous" into "Elite: Daycare"?

Remember also, im mainly talking about serious griefers, not those roleplaying.

Wanton murder NEEDS consequenses.

Hell, doing a killing spree mission taking out 10 traders gave me a paltry fine in ONE system at 62K. Sure, that became a bounty for a week so I had to dodge interdictors but such decisions should have to be made.

Griefers today suffer no penalties apart from miniscule fines and bounties. The victims are the one paying the bill.

I don want daycare, I want a realistic simulated society. And a society tends to become off when someone goes ballistic.

 

[Whiterose]

A major part of the game is to be on the lookout for killers. You have to be able to defend yourself. If you can't, ED is big enough to get away from them. Just go to the outer systems and you'll be in peace with only NPCs to worry about.

As regards penalties for Murder, i'm not sure a psychopath cares about any of your penalties.

No change required in my mind.

I concur. You will never stop the small minded who think it is okay to hit new players. The only way to stop murderers is community based. I was initially annoyed as an explorer to hear about the assassin in Sag A destroying explorers and ballers, but then realised it was good for the game. Within hours several commanders were there defending others. Community justice. Unfortunately this will not work for the individual, but if a way of life is threatened then something can be done.

 

[CMDR Dave Quakes]

Isn't the problem with higher bounties for murder is that it reintroduces credit selling? I don't think that them taking a hit to their combat ranking works as they just won't care.
I think that if the only real solution is that you get a lot more attention and quicker from the NPC cops once you start to exceed a certain threshold of murderous behaviour.

 

[Kirk-Fu]

These suggestions would destroy piracy, invalidate most combat outside of combat zones; who would pvp bounty hunt if nobody ever wanted to take the steps to get wanted and essentially force everyone into just trading, mining and exploration.

Sometimes I think there's a small but vocal group of players who would like nothing more than exactly that. All this pesky "combat" is just getting in the way of their trucking.

 

[JeffRyan]

Did I say I want that?

Murder in the game right now IS Elite: Daycare.

Elite is dangerous for non-combat professions but daycare for killers.

Is the universe "dangerous" for murderers in Elite? 6000c bounty/fine is hardly something dangerous.

And murder isn't limited to PCs. Honestly the changes made life easier for me. Now I just jump a system away and I'm clean again!

That said, multiply 6000 by the 10 or even 100, it quickly adds up.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

So you'd remove the major differentiation between anarchy systems and every other system of governance thus making them irrelevant.

Minor factions do have kill missions for traders, bounty hunters etc so why would you get a rep drop for doing the dangerous work (not to mention carrying a bounty and becoming a target) in that system.

These suggestions would destroy piracy, invalidate most combat outside of combat zones; who would pvp bounty hunt if nobody ever wanted to take the steps to get wanted and essentially force everyone into just trading, mining and exploration.

-You take faction hits to reputation within anarchy systems today when shooting wanted people within that system belonging to the ruling faction.
-This would only make it more punishing against shooting non-wanted people.
-The faction GIVING you the mission would not give you a penalty to your rep, other factions in the system will.
-YOU make the decision to turn pirate, shoot people in the face for the mission reward - MONEY.
-YOU decide as a pirate IF you HAVE to KILL every trader you meet.

I choose to take a mission that gave me 350K for killing 10 traders, and yes, you DO take a reputation hit for shooting minor faction members today.

It would also help Elite become more "Dangerous" since your reputation towards factions would go up and down depending on what you do.