My humble opinion on ED

TL;DR: to grind or not to grind, Frontier screwed up.
Before you all shoot me down with what you think is the culture of the game and so on, I know the game's got history but who here wants a repeat of the world wars?
Anyways, first, the grind and game design. There are F2P games out there that relies on the grind or cash shop (practically all MMOs out there), then there's the like of EVE where you pay for the hours you play, and then there's games you pay for the game and have reasonable progression speed rather than a dragged out grindy so the dev can make more money on the hours you play. You know where ED falls on those categories. I can understand dragging out character progression if you're charging by the game hour, which if it's the case I wouldn't be playing the game to begin with because I think it's stupid to spend my hard earned cash on something that's designed to be a time sink, but at least it's by design and I know that up front. Since you're not charging by the hour, your cash shop are items you can't obtain in game anyways, why not let the players do what they want? Isn't that the intent of the game? That you can be whatever you want? Why do you have to put in an asterisk there that says if and only if you have the hours to grind. There are other ways to reward players which I'll elaborate in a bit, but at the moment you're making in-game cash the only incentive in the game. Use your imagination to see where that'll lead.

Second, the grind and life. Yes, more to address the grind. It's been said enough times. "I have a 40 hours job, I don't need another one". I'm sure you can reach max level in other MMOs in a few weeks, again with a few asterisks, have someone power level you and/or you spend your waking moments playing the game for those weeks. I'm sorry but those who says we need more grind have more time to spare for your own good. I've got a job, a child, a family, and I'm looking to do another job on top of it, and my own professional development, etc... Frontier, do you want your audience to be teenagers who play game all day without working toward their future, or would you like to include the old folks who played your original game and are spending non-game time to earn money which then in turn possibly put some of that into this game of yours? Use your economic sense.

Third, priorities. I've posted this before in ED forum and got shot down pretty quick citing culture of the game and so forth. I want to settle down in the game, I don't want to be homeless, pushing around a warp-capable shopping cart with all my worldly possessions. Some quick to disregard it as possibility to allow player-owned enterprises to exist, but that's the other extreme. I want a place to call home for reasons other than "I just make it my home". This is one of many other things that I feel Frontier probably isn't too stupid to realize but doing it on purpose. Powerplay was a pointless addition to the game, IMO. It's another mean to get credit, which we have plenty of, and none really satisfy all the player-base, because guess what, if getting credit is your only objective and someone finds a way to get a ton of credits easily, everyone's on to it, and it gets nerfed and we're back to being divided on different camps. This leads to my next point

Fourth, design choices. So you get rich quick, you have money to buy your ship and then what? This is what you all worried about right? This is what Frontier's worried about right? That the game is so shallow that if most of player base got rich quick and get what they want then they'll be bored and leave the game? If this is how you design the game then yes that's exactly what will happen. At least I can speak for myself, I wanted to walk around the ship, I wanna fly across planets. If you buy a new ship and all you can do with it is fly around in it, yes no matter how big and expensive your ship is, you'll be bored of it quick! This is why I think Frontier shot themselves in the foot by not adding space legs first. You keep players by the content, not by making them grind their way to another shallow content. When I buy a new ship, I want to walk around it, explore it, learn about it. Yes that's content to be added, and it should have been added a long time ago instead of powerplay and the likes. If I dock at a station and have more to do than missions/trading/refueling/spending credits on more shallow content that I can do at any other stations, I'd be more inclined to differentiate one from another. As they are at the moment, stations might as well be numbered for all I care. At least I can type numbers with 1 hand. Space legs should have been added before horizons IMO. Different kind of rewards should have been added too, engineering is a good example, we need more of those. If space leg was added instead of landing on planets, you could have your engineers on the stations instead of planets, and you tell me how much easier that would have been to develop than landing on planets. While the players are busy with those content, you can take your time developing planetary landings. Rewards that aren't just credit will provide other incentives for players to explore different sides of the game other than making banks. At the moment, making banks is the only thing on everyone's mind. Whatever you wanna do come after you've got your bank.

Fifth, progression. Or back to the grind. This is a suggestion. How hard is it to make the progression dynamic for the players? If you play 100 hrs/week, you progress 10x slower than someone who spends 10hrs/week. The rewards dynamically scale down as you spend more time in the game in case you ask how I'd tell 100 hrs/week from 10 hrs/week players. That way you'd be inclusive of both camps of nerf or not to nerf (or buff or not to buff), as well as your player demographics. I don't know if ED does this whether it'd be the first or not but wouldn't it worth a shot?
 
Path of least resistance will always be the "Go-to" if you add a feature like you have suggested, and that would be bad for ED in the long run IMO ... It might not be popular but if someone has more time to put into a game they will always gain the 'benefits' quicker than those that don't, as they should.

Anyone that has enjoyed playing any of the Elite games in the past has put in less than 100+ hours into it. (and that is a very low estimate)

That's Elite, it takes a long time to progress and it should be that way.
 
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Path of least resistance will always be the "Go-to" if you add a feature like you have suggested, and that would be bad for ED in the long run IMO ... It might not be popular but if someone has more time to put into a game they will always gain the 'benefits' quicker than those that don't, as they should.

Anyone that has enjoyed playing any of the Elite games in the past has put in less than 100+ hours into it. (and that is a very low estimate)

That's Elite, it takes a long time to progress and it should be that way.

Wow, this is the worst-constructed argument ever. Of all time. "This game mechanic is bad, obviously so, but it should stay that way because bad game mechanics are the entire point of the game."
 
Wow, this is the worst-constructed argument ever. Of all time. "This game mechanic is bad, obviously so, but it should stay that way because bad game mechanics are the entire point of the game."

Worst constructed argument ever. of all time ... hmm ok [wacko]

I never said the mechanic is bad, so not obviously so ... I like the way this game plays and I don't think that things taking time is a bad game mechanic..
 
I have to agree with all of this. Especially the time sink. Which is the biggest        g problem this game has. It's more work than game, without the added benefit to actually achieve anything credits are absolutely meaningless.
You can't buy anything.
You can't own anything.
You can't do any missions that are actually fun because they lack depth.

The only reason to stick around is for what might be coming. Landing on airless planets is a crap dlc which doesn't add any depth to the game.

FDs lack of social tools *IN GAME* despite this being an MMO. (A preemptive "Yes it is")

It smells like Free to play. It looks like Free to play. It even has the same format as a free to play.

-long winded rant into the abyss-
 
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I am never going to get the min/max must-grind mentality.

I disagree with almost everything and applaud their innovative continuing work on the best space sim going AND one of the top 3 VR experiences. While the project is rooted in nostalgia it's also attached to some pretty ambitious and thoroughly geeky dreams a few steps ahead of the pack, that they are achieving even some of their goals at this stage of development should be applauded instead of sneered at so ineffectively.

As they cross off components of "the list," items on it that seemed more daunting and impossible are a helluva lot easier to implement.
 
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I am never going to get the min/max must-grind mentality.

I disagree with almost everything and applaud their innovative continuing work on the best space sim going AND one of the top 3 VR experiences. While the project is rooted in nostalgia it's also attached to some pretty ambitious and thoroughly geeky dreams a few steps ahead of the pack, that they are achieving even some of their goals at this stage of development should be applauded instead of sneered at so ineffectively.

As they cross off components of "the list," items on it that seemed more daunting and impossible are a helluva lot easier to implement.

And that's fine for you, but the rest of us would like to do something other than hit "J," thanks.

And daunting/impossible? Hardly. While, admittedly, CGI are a much larger team, they've managed to make CryEngine do things it was never meant to. That others said was impossible. Meanwhile, FD can't seem to write working netcode or complex mechanics into an engine they built themselves (if I remember correctly). Don't take this as me advocating for SC; I'm just confused as to how people can be impressed with what FD are doing.
 
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Fifth, progression. Or back to the grind. This is a suggestion. How hard is it to make the progression dynamic for the players? If you play 100 hrs/week, you progress 10x slower than someone who spends 10hrs/week. The rewards dynamically scale down as you spend more time in the game in case you ask how I'd tell 100 hrs/week from 10 hrs/week players. That way you'd be inclusive of both camps of nerf or not to nerf (or buff or not to buff), as well as your player demographics. I don't know if ED does this whether it'd be the first or not but wouldn't it worth a shot?

This is the most absurd idea I ever seen... Gaming socialism, where the least one does the more one gets. Like socialism, I understand the appeal this could have to certain people.
 
Bro, I just want to fly space ships.

In Elite: Dangerous, I get to fly space ships.

I have three space ships right now, an Eagle, a Diamondback Explorer, and a Keelback.

That is more space ships than I can fly at one time!

If you skipped all of the content in the game by grinding for the maximum possible credits/hour after reading a guide on a forum and wrote off everything in the BGS, Missions, and Powerplay as just useless nonsense because, like, GalNet is just like words, man, then that's on you. If the only goal that you can envision is having the most fake spacebux, then Elite didn't fail you. You failed Elite.

This is the most absurd idea I ever seen... Gaming socialism, where the least one does the more one gets. Like socialism, I understand the appeal this could have to certain people.

Actually that's how Capitalism works. The workers do all of the work and those who do the least, the most wealthy capitalists, don't have to do anything at all.
 
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why not let the players do what they want? Isn't that the intent of the game? That you can be whatever you want? Why do you have to put in an asterisk there that says if and only if you have the hours to grind. There are other ways to reward players which I'll elaborate in a bit, but at the moment you're making in-game cash the only incentive in the game. Use your imagination to see where that'll lead.

Sorry for compressing your text, but I think these are the most salient points, from which the others follow.

In a Galaxy-Scale-Sandbox-Space-Sim, your premise would be correct. Be, do and go, as you please. But 'Elite' isn't a Galaxy-Scale-Sandbox-Space-Sim. The game has a story, a set of way-points & objectives, however well hidden, however much ignored. Elite has all the fundamental elements of a linearly progressing campaign. The fact that it is set in a galaxy rather than a building, town or city goes some way to obscuring these elements, but they are present none the less.

Choosing to mostly ignore the campaign and do largely as you please is an added bonus, but the campaign elements will still direct the ways in which you can ignore them. You cannot escape the BGS, you cannot escape the NPC's. They will always affect your game and you will always affect them. You will indirectly affect the games of other players as they affect yours.

In-game cash is not the objective, and I struggle to see that as a rational critique. In-game credit is a means to an end; ships, outfits & cargo. Those are the means to another end; participation in BGS, Power Play and Engineers, and they are the means to yet another end; the future... [insert Thargoids here]

With its massive development timetable you can expect further updates from FDev that might appear to be meaningless grind for CR, but which ultimately have an extraordinary role to play in whatever end-game is ultimately developed.
 
Well, much as i look forward to playing star citizen as well at some point, keep in mind it doesn't exist as a full game yet, so I'm sure there will be as many server issues, glitches, grinding etc, so it's not really fair to say "this is rubbish, this other thing is going to be so much better", let's wait and see.
Yeah it's grindy, but you don't have to play grindy. I have phases, if I have time and want something I'll do the grind for a while, otherwise I look for new things to try, some killing, trying out the fighters, some missions, some exploring, i have little goals, visit jacques, canyon racing, move up a rank, those don't have to be grindy. Sure I'd love more content, but every game ever could do with more content, at least it's starting to appear in elite :)
 
Path of least resistance will always be the "Go-to" if you add a feature like you have suggested, and that would be bad for ED in the long run IMO ... It might not be popular but if someone has more time to put into a game they will always gain the 'benefits' quicker than those that don't, as they should.

Anyone that has enjoyed playing any of the Elite games in the past has put in less than 100+ hours into it. (and that is a very low estimate)

That's Elite, it takes a long time to progress and it should be that way.

I'm quoting you here since it's most relevant to what I'm about to say, but scroll up and see how divided the players are.
I'm not saying it shouldn't take a long time, I'm saying the game as it is right now "punishes" players unfairly. Please tell me how will dynamic progression create a go-to path of least resistance? That players will just play as little as possible? As for "benefits", I've elaborated that credit shouldn't be the only benefit in the game. Create other benefits for the players to play for.

As it stands right now, players with a tone of time on their hands will take advantage of all the exploits, all the good credit runs, bleed it dry or until Frontier nerf it. Elite or not, they gain an advantage over players who don't have as much time to play because they have more banks. If you want to make this into a leveling game, say so. As it stands your elite status means no advantage in the game other than name recognition, it is currently a skill-based game, yet this grind for credit hammers it all. I could be more skilled than the next guy but if I'm stuck in a sidy while he gets a        g Cutter because he has a ton more time than me, then how is this a skill-based game? Tell me if I'm wrong when I think of this game as skill-based game. If I'm not wrong then Frontier is going down the wrong path by making credit ascension the equivalent of leveling up.

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This is the most absurd idea I ever seen... Gaming socialism, where the least one does the more one gets. Like socialism, I understand the appeal this could have to certain people.
If you game for a living, then yes you're right in comparing this to a social policy. If you want to game for FUN, you are welcome to grind your life away on virtual properties. And you don't even understand what I'm proposing, which is to make the guy who plays 10hrs/wk progresses as much as the other guy who plays 100hrs/wk. Equal. Never said the guy plays less gets more. Maybe if you spend a bit more time outside of gaming you'd not be so quick to bash others like an angry teenage kid.
 
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Hmmm lets hit the points in order.

1. I do what I want already. You can absolutely do whatever you want easily from the beginning in small ships.

2. Game and life -Ahahahahaha. I'm finally on vacation after working 50-60 hours a week for the past 6 months and I still managed an hour or two most evenings.

3. You can settle down, it's called the BGS.

4. Design choices - anything you don't like was a bad design decision. Since you mentioned space legs you should probably know that when ships get designed the interiors are as well. Commander creator is on the way so they are laying the ground work. Manage your expectations.

5. You want to punish people that are able to play the game more often?

All in all a pretty skewed and entitled humble opinion.
 
Bro, I just want to fly space ships.

In Elite: Dangerous, I get to fly space ships.

I have three space ships right now, an Eagle, a Diamondback Explorer, and a Keelback.

That is more space ships than I can fly at one time!

If you skipped all of the content in the game by grinding for the maximum possible credits/hour after reading a guide on a forum and wrote off everything in the BGS, Missions, and Powerplay as just useless nonsense because, like, GalNet is just like words, man, then that's on you. If the only goal that you can envision is having the most fake spacebux, then Elite didn't fail you. You failed Elite.

I'm not the first to raise the question of earn credits, buy bigger ships, earn more credits, then what?
The reason why I wrote off everything in BGS, Mission, and Powerplay because they have a common end goal: credits
At best, you do mission for a group, or powers, so you gain rep, so you can have more lucrative missions, which also translate to credits.
Credit is the only way the game rewards you at the moment. Sure I can't pilot all 3 ships at once, nor do I want to. I personally have a T7, Asp Explorer, Cobra Mk 3, Viper Mk 4, and the 1st sidy I started in just for sentimental value. And aside from the larger cargo hold, the longer jump range, the aesthetics of the ship that I can only look through the debug camera, there's NOTHING else differentiate the ships from each other. NONE. That's why I said space legs should have been added first, for more content, for the rewarding experience when you get a new ship. Besides, what else in the game do I have to live for at the moment? I don't have a home so I can't exactly "fight for my country" now can I? Aside from arbitrarily call myself 1 side or another, there's nothing that ties me into it. NONE. Again, should have added space legs and homes and storage and so forth. A homeless man will go where his pan gets more money, in this case, credits, and that's shallow.
 
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