My take on exhibits aka. the Goldilocks proposal

tigris115

tigris115
So I was looking at PZ's animal exhibits (the terrariums) and IMO, while they're the perfect size for some animals, others are too big or small for the 1 size we have.
Lemme lay it down with some pictures
The human model I made is 1.8 meters tall, the green block represents the size of a green iguana, and the red block represents an average in-game bug or frog.

Below me is a comparison of both animals and a human with the stock exhibit. The iguana has some room but it's a bit on the snug side. This issue is only exacerbated when you have 2 creatures of this size for the sake of breeding. The red bugs have the opposite problem. Here, it's so small within the exhibit that you have to look through really hard just to see it.
PZexhibitrender1.png

Here's what I propose for the big guys (iguanas and maybe the anaconda. Though giant snakes can live in relatively small habitats). The length of the basic exhibit has been doubled. This means more space and more options for decoration.
PZexhibitrender2.png

For bugs and tiny frogs, here's what I propose. These tanks are on the small side (reference was Jungleworld at the Bronx Zoo in NY) but they're perfect for little critters like insects and the small frogs. You also don't need as much space, making these great for buildings (the thing itself is 2m tall and 2 and 2m wide)
PZexhibitrender3.png


I call it Goldilocks because all of these exhibits are "just right" for their respective animals
 
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DrBurrito

DrBurrito
tigris115 said:
So I was looking at PZ's animal exhibits (the terrariums) and IMO, while they're the perfect size for some animals, others are too big or small for the 1 size we have.
Lemme lay it down with some pictures
The human model I made is 1.8 meters tall, the green block represents the size of a green iguana, and the red block represents an average in-game bug or frog.

Below me is a comparison of both animals and a human with the stock exhibit. The iguana has some room but it's a bit on the snug side. This issue is only exacerbated when you have 2 creatures of this size for the sake of breeding. The red bugs have the opposite problem. Here, it's so small within the exhibit that you have to look through really hard just to see it.
https://imgur.com/WUIWD8h
Source: https://i.imgur.com/WUIWD8h.png

Here's what I propose for the big guys (iguanas and maybe the anaconda. Though giant snakes can live in relatively small habitats). The length of the basic exhibit has been doubled. This means more space and more options for decoration.
https://imgur.com/sxolxpn
Source: https://i.imgur.com/sxolxpn.png

For bugs and tiny frogs, here's what I propose. These tanks are on the small side (reference was Jungleworld at the Bronx Zoo in NY) but they're perfect for little critters like insects and the small frogs. You also don't need as much space, making these great for buildings (the thing itself is 2m tall and 2 and 2m wide)
https://imgur.com/a2k3EWK
Source: https://i.imgur.com/a2k3EWK.png


I call it Goldilocks because all of these exhibits are "just right" for their respective animals
Click to expand...
The exact same solution I had been advocating for. Glad to see the community having similar trains of thought.

An excerpt from my description of the suggested new exhibit sizes:

"The free feature update introduces 2 new exhibit sizes (2x2 and 8x4) in addition to the one in the game (4x4), and the option to use 2 meter grid paths in addition to the 4 meter grids we already have. The existing exhibits animals are redistributed between the 2x2 and 4x4 exhibits, where smaller ones like invertebrates and poison dart frogs are assigned to 2x2 exhibits, with the rest to remain as 4x4. For now the new 8x4 XL exhibit is only for the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (base roster - free content update) and the Green Anaconda (DLC). Future updates and DLC's can and will add more animals to this exhibit type. The 2x2 small exhibits can be stackable or placed irregularly on a column to suit the 4 meter ceiling height, with 2 variants based on where the actual glass exhibit is - to offer an irregular modern design and avoid identical spacing on the column/frame. If the latter is preferred, it would also eliminate the mandatory two meter height as there is no concern to stack exhibits on top of each other anymore; which would additionally create the freedom to make taller (arboreal) or shorter glass exhibits (than 2 meters) on the column. Combined with the irregular placement principle, this would result in some neat looking variety as well as function for different small species with different lifestyles."
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
DrBurrito said:
The exact same solution I had been advocating for. Glad to see the community having similar trains of thought.

An excerpt from my description of the suggested new exhibit sizes:

"The free feature update introduces 2 new exhibit sizes (2x2 and 8x4) in addition to the one in the game (4x4), and the option to use 2 meter grid paths in addition to the 4 meter grids we already have. The existing exhibits animals are redistributed between the 2x2 and 4x4 exhibits, where smaller ones like invertebrates and poison dart frogs are assigned to 2x2 exhibits, with the rest to remain as 4x4. For now the new 8x4 XL exhibit is only for the Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (base roster - free content update) and the Green Anaconda (DLC). Future updates and DLC's can and will add more animals to this exhibit type. The 2x2 small exhibits can be stackable or placed irregularly on a column to suit the 4 meter ceiling height, with 2 variants based on where the actual glass exhibit is - to offer an irregular modern design and avoid identical spacing on the column/frame. If the latter is preferred, it would also eliminate the mandatory two meter height as there is no concern to stack exhibits on top of each other anymore; which would additionally create the freedom to make taller (arboreal) or shorter glass exhibits (than 2 meters) on the column. Combined with the irregular placement principle, this would result in some neat looking variety as well as function for different small species with different lifestyles."
Click to expand...

I know this doesn't pertain to the thread in question, but why would the Cuvier's dwarf caiman require an exhibit? Their average length is 1.6m, close that of the Nile monitor. More than suitable for a habitat animal.
 

DrBurrito

DrBurrito
NZFanatic said:
I know this doesn't pertain to the thread in question, but why would the Cuvier's dwarf caiman require an exhibit? Their average length is 1.6m, close that of the Nile monitor. More than suitable for a habitat animal.
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I think we discussed the same topic a while ago on another thread, but I can roughly go over my reasoning on the source of the thread if you'd like me to. Honestly I don't want to steer this thread off-topic.
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
DrBurrito said:
I think we discussed the same topic a while ago on another thread, but I can roughly go over my reasoning on the source of the thread if you'd like me to. Honestly I don't want to steer this thread off-topic.
Click to expand...

Oh nah, if we already discussed it we probably don't need to again anyway. 😅

In any case I agree with the idea of both larger and smaller exhibits. I don't think it's necessary to separate animals by exhibit size, however. So for example, at the moment we can fit a maximum of eleven golden frogs in the current exhibit, so my thinking is that the number would be increased to twenty-two for the double-size and ~six for the half-size. The green iguana obviously won't be able to fit in a smaller exhibit, but if we say the maximum is two for the base exhibit, then it would be four for the double-size.

Part of me would love to see a larger exhibit with twenty+ frogs in it just as much as I'd love to see a smaller exhibit with only a handful of easy-to-spot frogs. It gets complicated with certain species, though; the giant centipede can only currently have a population of two, which I would say would still be acceptable for a smaller exhibit, but do they then increase the capacity of the base exhibit?
 

DrBurrito

DrBurrito
NZFanatic said:
Oh nah, if we already discussed it we probably don't need to again anyway. 😅

In any case I agree with the idea of both larger and smaller exhibits. I don't think it's necessary to separate animals by exhibit size, however. So for example, at the moment we can fit a maximum of eleven golden frogs in the current exhibit, so my thinking is that the number would be increased to twenty-two for the double-size and ~six for the half-size. The green iguana obviously won't be able to fit in a smaller exhibit, but if we say the maximum is two for the base exhibit, then it would be four for the double-size.

Part of me would love to see a larger exhibit with twenty+ frogs in it just as much as I'd love to see a smaller exhibit with only a handful of easy-to-spot frogs. It gets complicated with certain species, though; the giant centipede can only currently have a population of two, which I would say would still be acceptable for a smaller exhibit, but do they then increase the capacity of the base exhibit?
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Although I wouldn't mind being able to house the same species in different sized exhibits, that would mean more resources and man hours per species for the multiple interior designs for each exhibit size. I would rather have more species but have them assigned to specific exhibit sizes.
 

AndyZoos

A
I've been wanting this for quite a while! Would be a fantastic addition to the game, especially if they upped the number of exhibit animals significantly -- and switched back on their "small mammal" and bird stance and allowing just a smidge most customizability. I could see that really adding to the game.
 

ReptoMin

R
Great thread. I have always wanted more variety to exhibit sizes. One smaller in size and one larger sized exhibit. We definitely need to be able to see insects and spiders easier in smaller exhibits and we need a larger one for larger animals like turtles and dwarf caiman.
DrBurrito said:
and the option to use 2 meter grid paths in addition to the 4 meter grids we already have.
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There is one problem that has always made me question how this would be done since we only have minimum 4 meter grid paths for inside areas and this idea is golden, fixes all of possible design related issues.
 

DragonNTiger

D
Ah yes, the Exhibits... could definitely use some work... I actually made a thread of my own here. Love the idea of the insect exhibit; didn't think of that one... though personally I'd make them only 1m high and then make them stackable, like the various 1m wall pieces...

tigris115 said:
You could also have the option to remove the shelf in Exhibit C to make 2 into one if you want more space.
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Personally, I'd say it would make more sense just to make a 1m high version and a 2m high version and make them all stackable than try to make some modular thing... might get complicated if you suddenly decided to split or merge the two halves and there are animals already in there...
 
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Danny_zoo

Danny_zoo
You know, this is certainly a much better proposal that what we currently have in the game, much more realistic. But allow me to present a different proposal, this idea was brought up originally by NZFanatic, as a solution for the lack of birds within the game. I have only modified what he suggested and think it can be applied effectively all the way across to not only small birds, but reptiles, amphibians and even small mammals. Frontier has over complicated the exhibit animals in the game, the game is a piece by piece building simulation, not Zoo Tycoon or Zoo Sim or whatever other Zoo game gives you unrealistic genetic enclosures already fabricated. Why not provide all of these animals in looping animations, they can be static, but let them move their heads, blink their eyes, flap their wings, etc, with no box exhibits, instead give us the glass pieces (clear ones like the ones currently used as barriers or exhibits, not the dark ones currently in the game) and give us some other components, like heating rocks, hiding places, ground cover, small plants, heat lamps, fallen logs, etc, and we can then create realistic and unique animal exhibits, instead of the genetic one size fits all McDonald boxes we have.
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
Danny_zoo said:
You know, this is certainly a much better proposal that what we currently have in the game, much more realistic. But allow me to present a different proposal, this idea was brought up originally by NZFanatic, as a solution for the lack of birds within the game. I have only modified what he suggested and think it can be applied effectively all the way across to not only small birds, but reptiles, amphibians and even small mammals. Frontier has over complicated the exhibit animals in the game, the game is a piece by piece building simulation, not Zoo Tycoon or Zoo Sim or whatever other Zoo game gives you unrealistic genetic enclosures already fabricated. Why not provide all of these animals in looping animations, they can be static, but let them move their heads, blink their eyes, flap their wings, etc, with no box exhibits, instead give us the glass pieces (clear ones like the ones currently used as barriers or exhibits, not the dark ones currently in the game) and give us some other components, like heating rocks, hiding places, ground cover, small plants, heat lamps, fallen logs, etc, and we can then create realistic and unique animal exhibits, instead of the genetic one size fits all McDonald boxes we have.
Click to expand...

I would certainly see that as an excellent compromise.
 

Danny_zoo

Danny_zoo
I'm glad you see it this way, because I have come to understand that if at the end small/medium birds are not possible as habitat animals, since it would add a tremendous amount of lag to the game, then the animals in looping animations without restrictive exhibits would be an ideal solution.

When I bought this game, I had to upgrade my PC, since I had a dinosaur of a computer, just like me. Since I had no clue as to what would be most effective when running this game. Playing the game at its best performance was extremely important to me, so I made sure that i got the best gaming laptop available at the store. Granted the very informative young man who assisted me, did recommend that I bought a regular gaming PC instead of a laptop, but since I travel a lot this was not an option. He did say that the laptop I end up taking (MSI GT76 TITAN) was a monster and as good as any gaming PC. A while back I conducted an experiment, since I kept on reading about crashes, bad performances, bugs and lag in the game, and I honestly never understood where most of the players were coming from, and thought that they were just trying to play the game in systems that might be slightly out of date. So i built a pretty large zoo exhibit (An African Savanna) no visitors, since I really do not care about the human figures, they are too cartonish for my taste, and allowed the animals to procreate as much as they wanted until I will notice any lag. It finally started at around 970 animals, things did slow down a bit, nothing yet to stop me from playing the game, but it was noticeable. The next thing I tried doing was adding a cable car ride just to see if would make a difference, and it surely did, I did not like what i saw at all.

Now just short of a 1000 animals is a respectable number in my opinion for any small zoo in real life, and more than ok for a virtual zoo, however i did notice that over half of those animals were flamingos, and that is where I realize that looping animations for birds could actually end up being a much better solution for their current missing status in the game. Imagine having a bee eater exhibit, inside a sheltered viewing area in the zoo to complement your Savannah, you would not just place a few pairs, you would want 20 or 30 of them to make things realistic, and that would be the beginning of trouble. Now one very important element here, that has not been discussed is how would does looping animations work since, we can not have all of the birds moving in the same way at the same time? Any ideas? Different options of looping animations, a timer that players can control sort of what they have in Planet Coaster with animatronics? What would it be?
 

Indoraptor27

Indoraptor27
Danny_zoo said:
I'm glad you see it this way, because I have come to understand that if at the end small/medium birds are not possible as habitat animals, since it would add a tremendous amount of lag to the game, then the animals in looping animations without restrictive exhibits would be an ideal solution.

When I bought this game, I had to upgrade my PC, since I had a dinosaur of a computer, just like me. Since I had no clue as to what would be most effective when running this game. Playing the game at its best performance was extremely important to me, so I made sure that i got the best gaming laptop available at the store. Granted the very informative young man who assisted me, did recommend that I bought a regular gaming PC instead of a laptop, but since I travel a lot this was not an option. He did say that the laptop I end up taking (MSI GT76 TITAN) was a monster and as good as any gaming PC. A while back I conducted an experiment, since I kept on reading about crashes, bad performances, bugs and lag in the game, and I honestly never understood where most of the players were coming from, and thought that they were just trying to play the game in systems that might be slightly out of date. So i built a pretty large zoo exhibit (An African Savanna) no visitors, since I really do not care about the human figures, they are too cartonish for my taste, and allowed the animals to procreate as much as they wanted until I will notice any lag. It finally started at around 970 animals, things did slow down a bit, nothing yet to stop me from playing the game, but it was noticeable. The next thing I tried doing was adding a cable car ride just to see if would make a difference, and it surely did, I did not like what i saw at all.

Now just short of a 1000 animals is a respectable number in my opinion for any small zoo in real life, and more than ok for a virtual zoo, however i did notice that over half of those animals were flamingos, and that is where I realize that looping animations for birds could actually end up being a much better solution for their current missing status in the game. Imagine having a bee eater exhibit, inside a sheltered viewing area in the zoo to complement your Savannah, you would not just place a few pairs, you would want 20 or 30 of them to make things realistic, and that would be the beginning of trouble. Now one very important element here, that has not been discussed is how would does looping animations work since, we can not have all of the birds moving in the same way at the same time? Any ideas? Different options of looping animations, a timer that players can control sort of what they have in Planet Coaster with animatronics? What would it be?
Click to expand...
I don't like the idea of looping animations, it would feel very boring and repetitive. Technically the exhibit animals loop a bit, but in a more natural looking way, not quite the same as a bird flying in circles, landing, and then flying more. One of my favorite thing about Planet Zoo animals is that hardly anything they do feels scripted. The only exceptions would be climbing, those animations can be a bit wonky. Even things like mating, eating, playing with enrichment items, don't feel very scripted.
 

Danny_zoo

Danny_zoo
Indoraptor27 said:
I don't like the idea of looping animations, it would feel very boring and repetitive. Technically the exhibit animals loop a bit, but in a more natural looking way, not quite the same as a bird flying in circles, landing, and then flying more. One of my favorite thing about Planet Zoo animals is that hardly anything they do feels scripted. The only exceptions would be climbing, those animations can be a bit wonky. Even things like mating, eating, playing with enrichment items, don't feel very scripted.
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I think you might have missed the rest of the conversation, and it has been a long one, thru many different threads, and that is my fault for not being more detailed in my explanation. The thing I love the most about this game besides how it stimulates creativity is the that same element that you described, how alive the animals feel. Since the game's lineup was released, I have been pushing for birds, since they are a critical part of any zoo, to the point that it really got in the nerves of some of the other members that had other priorities in mind. The reason why i kept on pushing for them, is because i knew it was a challenge for Frontier, and I happen to know from outside sources that it had been hot in their radar. Unfortunately not every challenge can be overcome, and even if it can, as they are a business at the end of the day, if it likely that if an acceptable solution is not found, then everything collapses, and they stop trying.

Based on information from members of this forum given to me, it seems the biggest issue is our systems being able to handle birds and the calculations that this new mechanics would bring about. I was completely against birds behaving like robots, but I since understood that this is not the meaning of looping animations and they can in fact look quite realistic in behavior, so it is not how you have described at all, it is more about their movement being restrictive. Now do not get me wrong, if flying birds become possible, I will be the first one in this forum jumping up and down, I have long and deep passion for aviary design, as I have been involved in many real life projects that have left their footprint within me. However if that is not possible, then what? No birds? absolutely not, we compromise and get small/medium size birds in controlled animations and larger birds like vultures, storks, etc can join the flamingos as habitat animals. The flamingos do fly already, they just do not do it for long distances in the game, In my African grassland exhibit i created a highly complex set up for them, and one of the flamingos flew a pretty nice distance across one of the water areas, so it is there already. When it comes to small and medium size birds, with looping animations that included flight, incredible aviaries could be created, highly realistic, as long as we can control every how often this animations show up. As far as the current system for the reptiles and amphibians, not sure what you mean, since they are literally statues unless you get right up close to one of them, they are basically looping animations, the only thing I'm asking is for the box to be taken away.
 
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