Mysteries of "And Here the Wheel" (may contain spoilers)

madbilly · Jan 26, 2018

Hi everyone, (mods if this is better in Official Fiction please move it)

I've not read all of the ED official fiction, but I've enjoyed AHTW so much I've now read it three times. The last time was mainly to help me try and fathom some of the things that were remaining mysterious to me, and it worked for some, but there are still many mysteries (or loose ends).

So I want to share these mysteries with you. WARNING, I've tried not to give away any of the storyline with these mysteries but there are probably still a few spoilers in there.

I've also included a list of things that are not in game as far as I can tell, and therefore are still mysteries for us as players. (also some things that are in game, plus some other things I thought were nice).

Enjoy!

General

The second scene on the Behemoth confirms the FFE main storyline and that the Dark Wheel didn't find Raxxla.

Garry

On New California why does use "Ryder" as a fake name? Is it random or subconciously?
In the Ceeper base, why didn't Garry break his cuffs on the cell's plasma bars?

Gunn

How come Gunn doesn't think Garry looks like Oberon?
Where and how did Gunn try to commit suicide? Why was it very public? The Kum Bay Yar sect held hostages there, and in FFE they were based on Peter's Eden in the Arexack system. Are they still there?
What happened on Thomson's World? How did Gunn's drink problem nearly ruin the peace process?

The Circle of Independent Elite Pilots

Where was Oberon's coffin ship going?
Oberon's black coffin had a bird-style crest on it, sounds like Elite symbol, with the Latin words underneath. What are the latin words?
How did the Circle find them at Skardee IV after the misjump?
What's going on with the architect, his grandson, the pink room and his daughter?
What happened to the CIEP elders? Where did they go? Are they still out there?
What about the other CIEP bases? There were between 4-7 because the project endure message went to seven people, four were base commanders. Are these other bases now abandoned, waiting to be found?
What happened to Whithers and Gunn's other Ceeper "colleagues"?

The Alliance

The Alliance helped stop a rebel imperial plot at Fort Donalds, Achenar. I believe that this is a nod to the FFE fan-fiction "Huge Plasma Accelerator" saga.

The Empire

Was it definitely the hidden tracking device on Gunn's ship, put there by the Imperial clone agents, which led the Empire to the INRA mothership?
Who was flying the Bismarck that attacked INRA?
The next in line to the throne after Harald is called the "butcher" of Reorte, or "Saviour" by the Empire. Who is it? Denton Patreus?

The Federation

What was FEDSOD operation Thunderstruck?
Why didn't Blond and Brown double cross Garry and side with INRA? After all, the remaining INRA were all Federation, not Imperial.

INRA

Does the Admiral know that Garry is really a Ceeper?
Is crimson the uniform colour of INRA? Is this the uniform that also appears in Tales from the Frontier?
Some INRA ships got away, where are they now? Are they still out there, regrouping?

Thargoids

Is the green alloy that INRA Admiral McKowsky has from a thargoid ship? Meta-alloy?

Other groups

Was the Calsace pirate gang from Calsace? I can't find that system, so maybe it's a family name.
What involvement have the children of Raxxla? Why mention them in the new (note non-canon) appendix?

Locations which are not yet in game (AFAIK)

Which system is Gunn's hidden circle space station in? It is probably a former imperial system since the rotation generates imperial standard gravity. It's somewhere explored, in the frontier, but apparently uninhabited apart from the Ceepers. The base is round a blue-white-green striped gas giant orbiting outside an asteroid belt around a red dwarf; it wasn't destroyed, so where is it?
CD 32-331 system appears to be completely missing from game (in fact doesn't even appear in star catalogue). The Middleton gas giant is also missing.
Garry base is at Hoopertown, but which system?
The Garry clan raided a Wreaken Mining platform, the last place he saw his kilt! (until Varia Malin gave it back to him). Which system? Anything to do with the Wreaken from "Protest against Wreaken" or just chance?
Arouca system, planet New Aberdeen, Granite City; planet Orkney, Kirkwall outpost. The system is there but the planets and stations are not - odd.
Mariner Doldrums between Cemiess and Vequess, some sort of interstellar phenomena. What are these ?
Achenar, Fort Donalds is where the alliance stopped a rebel imperial plot. Fort Donalds is missing… where would a space station go?!
Has anyone seen the Thargoid war graves out past Leesti?
Olcanze is where Robert and Jordan were prisoners once. Apparently some sort of Imperial mining location. Unfortunately it seems to be missing from the game.
CD-73 253 system is there but the planet Tarlak is missing.
Delta Phoenecis is there as well as the planets Anka, Kerkes and Garuda (the latter where they find the Imperial fleet), but planet Benu is missing.
Smuggler 's junction is a pirate base hidden in an asteroid belt. The system apparently has two rogue planets and red dwarf star, but where is it?
Aaymiay is mentioned in a song, is it a planet or a city?

From the new appendix so not canon:

The Gibraltar's Run pirate den, not in game as far as I know.
The Mastopolos Mining Incorporated strip mine is on Jennings Hollow in the Enayex System. The system exists but where is the planet?

Locations which are in game

Skardee IV, the baking hot planet
Leesti continental reef - but can't visit the reef yet!
CIEP stole the Starburst weapon from Eta Cassiopeia… but which base?
Brohman system, planet Villist, Tranquille Base - but can't land at Tranquille Base yet
Tau Ceti coffee from Taylor's Landing - Taylor's Landing must be on the planet Taylor's Colony
Morgue's Mortuary, planet in Eta Eta Cassiopeia where the Federation navy train
Lanaest, where the CIEP tested the weapon on a gas platform
Epsilon Eridani, New California, Masseyville, worldcraft corp, - can't land at Masseyville yet
Cemiess
Vequess, Agnews' Folly, where they first tried to stop the Ceepers
Andceeth, lots of rich bankers there apparently
Delta Pavonis, there's a ship dealer who sells Kraits there apparenently
Grandmort, where the little statute is from
HR 4790, where Jordan was once ambushed by the Federation
Peter's Wreck in Facece, Imperial military and possibly prison world

References to things we should be able to do or use in-game, but currently can't

The Lanner has a generation 3 hyperdrive which Sirius Corp couldn't make misjump; Garry did it by reactivating it just as they enter hyperspace, and NO manoeuvring. Is this possible in ED?
The ability to over (or under) power modules - this would give more options for cool running, bravely-Sir-Robinning, etc.
Sonic depth charges for bombing gas giants
Riedquat ultra coffee - a rare good that's missing in game
Starburst weapon, although to be honest it's a bit like an energy bomb, not exactly "balanced"!
Eagle Explorer - is this just an Eagle fitted for exploration or a specific model? It is capitalised so assume a new model.
Lakon Type IV freighter - in ED they start at type 6, so what happened to the type 4?
Unidentified INRA ships, or are they just Condors?
Imperial Bismarck battlecruiser
Docking tubes used for large ships at space stations
Federation Behemoth capital ship
Liquid Inferno (a narcotic) - another potential rare good
What is a "Carrack Killer" Asp?

Noteworthy background "colour" stuff

Siloplastan acceleration couch
Tollett and Marks, Vega Corp, Graves, Kenematic Armaments make weapons

Cheers

Hanerib · Jan 27, 2018

Yes, I've been searching for Riedquat Ultra Coffee too ever since I heard about it from the book. Filling both coffee dispensers in my Gunship would perhaps finally make my aiming right. The area surrounding Grandmort and Soontill has plenty of quiet, dark systems that could hide all manner of secrets, but so far they have eluded me. There must be a place somewhere, just going to need a few tonnes, thank you.

Louis Calvert · Jan 27, 2018

Nice post, I enjoyed AHTW a lot! You've compiled an interesting list.

I'm not sure I have and ideas on a lot of these things, but I've been researching hyperdrive as much as possible for other projects, I've got two ideas for an explanation of what we get in AHTW:

Idea 1:
Between 3175(ish) and 3290(ish) we used the 2b, as you know, and I found reference to that drive being continually developed (just like the FSD is), so by the time of AHTW in the late 3290's it was pretty much at the peak of development for that tech and there was already a handover to FSD taking place. I suspect that the version that Garry used wasn't the same "Type 3" developed by Sirius that was based on the same tech as the FSD, I think it was more likely a development of the 2b.

The travel times they mention in AHTW are much slower than FSD but slightly faster than the 2b, sometimes it only takes then a few hours to jump to other systems that would (I think) have taken days using the 2b from FFE. I think basically it's supposed to represent the pinnacle of the 2b technology just before the FSD was widespread. They don't seem to have Supercruise either, but they also don't seem to use Stardreamer.

OR! Alternatively. Idea 2:

AHTW is set in the late 3290's after FSD was released, but it would have taken a while to convert every ship to FSD, and I imagine for quite a while people used the 2b until they could upgrade (I expect a lot of people are still using the 2b even in 3304, hence all the shipwrecks we keep finding!). It's also supposed to be that many of the older ship models couldn't be converted to FSD, that's why we don't have Lanners or Sakers and things like that any more.

There's also lore references to FSD being rapidly developed by lots of rival companies once it was released by Sirius in sort of a arms-race to make the best version possible. So it's possible that the hyperdrive they mostly use in AHTW is an early version of FSD - slower than current FSD, but faster than the 2b, with some quirks.

We can date it:

by the dedication plaque under Garry's statue:
‘We were dead in the water. Defeated. Gone. But I heard the screams and we came running. What else could we have done?’ – Robert Garry, Commander, August 31st, 3293"

The other thing to maybe add to your list:

Soontil as described in AHTW doesn't seem to match Soontil as located in ED. The system doesn't seem to be where it's supposed to be, there's no "gas ring" obscuring the planet, I'm not sure the planet would have cooled down in only 10 years or so (I would have expected them to use the lava planet model?), and Soontil in the novel is Dark System, it's not in ED.

I wonder if in ED Soontil has been deliberately mis-identified?

madbilly · Jan 29, 2018

Hanerib said:
Yes, I've been searching for Riedquat Ultra Coffee too ever since I heard about it from the book. Filling both coffee dispensers in my Gunship would perhaps finally make my aiming right. The area surrounding Grandmort and Soontill has plenty of quiet, dark systems that could hide all manner of secrets, but so far they have eluded me. There must be a place somewhere, just going to need a few tonnes, thank you.

I remember it wasn't the only type of coffee in the game, but I didn't note down the others. Little things like this are what would join the books up with the game, it's a big shame they've not made it in. But I know why...

madbilly · Jan 29, 2018

Louis Calvert said:
Nice post, I enjoyed AHTW a lot! You've compiled an interesting list.

I'm not sure I have and ideas on a lot of these things, but I've been researching hyperdrive as much as possible for other projects, I've got two ideas for an explanation of what we get in AHTW:

Idea 1:
Between 3175(ish) and 3290(ish) we used the 2b, as you know, and I found reference to that drive being continually developed (just like the FSD is), so by the time of AHTW in the late 3290's it was pretty much at the peak of development for that tech and there was already a handover to FSD taking place. I suspect that the version that Garry used wasn't the same "Type 3" developed by Sirius that was based on the same tech as the FSD, I think it was more likely a development of the 2b.

The travel times they mention in AHTW are much slower than FSD but slightly faster than the 2b, sometimes it only takes then a few hours to jump to other systems that would (I think) have taken days using the 2b from FFE. I think basically it's supposed to represent the pinnacle of the 2b technology just before the FSD was widespread. They don't seem to have Supercruise either, but they also don't seem to use Stardreamer.

OR! Alternatively. Idea 2:

AHTW is set in the late 3290's after FSD was released, but it would have taken a while to convert every ship to FSD, and I imagine for quite a while people used the 2b until they could upgrade (I expect a lot of people are still using the 2b even in 3304, hence all the shipwrecks we keep finding!). It's also supposed to be that many of the older ship models couldn't be converted to FSD, that's why we don't have Lanners or Sakers and things like that any more.

There's also lore references to FSD being rapidly developed by lots of rival companies once it was released by Sirius in sort of a arms-race to make the best version possible. So it's possible that the hyperdrive they mostly use in AHTW is an early version of FSD - slower than current FSD, but faster than the 2b, with some quirks.

I think you're right about the hyperdrives. When John was writing the book it was before the idea of the FSD existed in game as we know it.

Louis Calvert said:
We can date it:

by the dedication plaque under Garry's statue:
‘We were dead in the water. Defeated. Gone. But I heard the screams and we came running. What else could we have done?’ – Robert Garry, Commander, August 31st, 3293"

Interestingly, my e-copy says 3393, which I'm sure is a typo.

Louis Calvert said:
The other thing to maybe add to your list:

Soontil as described in AHTW doesn't seem to match Soontil as located in ED. The system doesn't seem to be where it's supposed to be, there's no "gas ring" obscuring the planet, I'm not sure the planet would have cooled down in only 10 years or so (I would have expected them to use the lava planet model?), and Soontil in the novel is Dark System, it's not in ED.

I wonder if in ED Soontil has been deliberately mis-identified?

Good spot. I've not actually visited Soontill in game yet because it's taking me ages to get back from the Distant Worlds expedition (yes, really ages).

I don't know if Soontill in game has been deliberately misidentified, but it wouldn't be the only significant place in an ED book that didn't appear correctly in game. The asteroid base in Elite: Legacy is an obvious example - Michael Brookes even wrote that book, but the base wasn't put in an asteroid belt until recently.

For Legacy I don't really understand why they didn't do it. However, more generally for book things missing from the game: for the other ED books which were produced with the Kickstarter writers' packs I think FDev took a very tough stance on putting stuff in game. The reason is because the authors paid for the Writers' packs which did not include unlimited ability to name and put stuff in game. I think strictly they were limited to one system, one planet, no rare goods... basically the kickstarter tiers below the writers' pack pledge level.

[optimism] If we made enough NOISE perhaps FDev would finally link the games and the books better? [/optimism]

madbilly · Jan 29, 2018

Tarlak is mentioned in game: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/283758-The-lost-quot-Garbage-World-of-Tarlac-quot
But isn't actually there!

Note that John Harper actually calls it Tarlac on his website.

Thargoid · Jan 31, 2018

Hi

Firstly, thanks everyone for the interest in the novel, its very appreciated. If you did enjoy it and haven't written an amazon review yet, I would really love it if you could please

More reviews helps with Amazon algorithms for exposure, etc, etc.

Now, some answers:

General
The second scene on the Behemoth confirms the FFE main storyline and that the Dark Wheel didn't find Raxxla.

WHILE AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS WAS TRUE AS PER INFORMATION PROVIDED BY FD, THE FIRST ENCOUNTERS STORYLINE WAS LATER REDACTED.

Garry
On New California why does use "Ryder" as a fake name? Is it random or subconciously?

AHHHH, I WONDER?

In the Ceeper base, why didn't Garry break his cuffs on the cell's plasma bars?

HE DIDN'T WANT TO BREAK OUT, HE WAS WAITING FOR GUNN

Gunn
How come Gunn doesn't think Garry looks like Oberon?

HOW MUCH DO YOU LOOK LIKE YOUR GRANDFATHER?

Where and how did Gunn try to commit suicide? Why was it very public? The Kum Bay Yar sect held hostages there, and in FFE they were based on Peter's Eden in the Arexack system. Are they still there?
What happened on Thomson's World? How did Gunn's drink problem nearly ruin the peace process?

THERE IS A WHOLE ORIGIN STORY HERE FOR GUNN AND REVISITING THESE DEMONS WOULD BE A CRITICAL PART OF THE SEQUEL (IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN), SO WON'T REVEAL ANYTHING AT THIS STAGE....THERE WAS MORE ABOUT THIS IN THE 'DIRECTORS CUT' VERSION OF THE NOVEL, BUT MUCH WAS REMOVED IN THE EDITED RELEASE...IF YOU WANT THE DIRECTORS CUT VERSION OF THE EBOOK THEN PM ME.

The Circle of Independent Elite Pilots
Where was Oberon's coffin ship going?

HOME

Oberon's black coffin had a bird-style crest on it, sounds like Elite symbol, with the Latin words underneath. What are the latin words?

YES IT WAS THE ELITE SYMBOL, SIGNIFYING HIS ELITE COMBAT RANKING. FROM MEMORY THE LATIN PART CAME FROM THE DARK WHEEL

How did the Circle find them at Skardee IV after the misjump?

ALL THEIR TECH IS UPGRADED AGAINST STANDARD HUMAN TECH, DUE TO THE USE OF THARGOID TECH FROM SOONTILL

What's going on with the architect, his grandson, the pink room and his daughter?

NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN

What happened to the CIEP elders? Where did they go? Are they still out there?

THEY EVACUATED SOONTILL. THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE.....

What about the other CIEP bases? There were between 4-7 because the project endure message went to seven people, four were base commanders. Are these other bases now abandoned, waiting to be found?

THOSE BASES WOULD STILL BE THERE. SOONTILL WAS THE MAIN BASE AND THE SOURCE OF THEIR TECHNOLOGICAL PROWESS. NOW THEY ARE A WEAKENED FORCE.

What happened to Whithers and Gunn's other Ceeper "colleagues"?

MOST WOULD HAVE DIED IN THE VARIOUS BATTLES.

The Alliance
The Alliance helped stop a rebel imperial plot at Fort Donalds, Achenar. I believe that this is a nod to the FFE fan-fiction "Huge Plasma Accelerator" saga.

*WINK*

The Empire
Was it definitely the hidden tracking device on Gunn's ship, put there by the Imperial clone agents, which led the Empire to the INRA mothership?

YUP

Who was flying the Bismarck that attacked INRA?

THIS ISN'T CLEAR DUE TO THE EDITING, BUT SHOULD BE CLEARER IN THE DIRECTORS CUT - IT WAS THE IMPERIAL CLONE AGENTS AND OTHER IMPERIAL STAFF. WHEN THE IMPERIAL HALF OF INRA RETURNED HOME THEY WERE LOCKED UP /EXECUTED, ETC, BUT THE EQUIPMENT AND SHIPS WERE KEPT AROUND

The next in line to the throne after Harald is called the "butcher" of Reorte, or "Saviour" by the Empire. Who is it? Denton Patreus?

THIS ONE IS A BIT TRICKY....

The Federation
What was FEDSOD operation Thunderstruck?

I BELIEVE THE TECHNICAL TERM WOULD BE 'CLUSTER F__K'

Why didn't Blond and Brown double cross Garry and side with INRA? After all, the remaining INRA were all Federation, not Imperial.

INRA WERE ENEMIES OF THE STATE. AND BROWN HAD A SOFT SPOT FOR GARRY WHO WAS CLEARLY A FEDERATION 'CITIZEN' RATHER THAN JUST A CIVILIAN. BROWN IS A GOOD JUDGE OF CHARACTER.

INRA
Does the Admiral know that Garry is really a Ceeper?
HE DOES SEEM TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT HIM, DOESN'T HE?

Is crimson the uniform colour of INRA? Is this the uniform that also appears in Tales from the Frontier?

NOT SURE RE TALES FROM THE FRONTIER.

Some INRA ships got away, where are they now? Are they still out there, regrouping?

YES, SOME SURVIVED....

Thargoids
Is the green alloy that INRA Admiral McKowsky has from a thargoid ship? Meta-alloy?

YES, IT WAS PART OF THE HULL OF A THARGOID SHIP...IN THE 68000 SERIES OF ELITE GAMES, THARGOIDS WERE GREEN.

Other groups
Was the Calsace pirate gang from Calsace? I can't find that system, so maybe it's a family name.

FAMILY NAME.

What involvement have the children of Raxxla? Why mention them in the new (note non-canon) appendix?

BROWN WANTS TO KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW. IT'LL MAKE SENSE FOR THE SEQUEL.

Locations which are not yet in game (AFAIK)

I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED HERE. FOR MOST EXAMPLES I ASKED FD FOR WHAT I NEEDED IN TERMS OF SPATIAL POSITIONS AND STUFF IN THE SYSTEM AND FD CAME BACK WITH NAMES FOR ME TO USE.

Which system is Gunn's hidden circle space station in? It is probably a former imperial system since the rotation generates imperial standard gravity. It's somewhere explored, in the frontier, but apparently uninhabited apart from the Ceepers. The base is round a blue-white-green striped gas giant orbiting outside an asteroid belt around a red dwarf; it wasn't destroyed, so where is it?

SECRET

CD 32-331 system appears to be completely missing from game (in fact doesn't even appear in star catalogue). The Middleton gas giant is also missing.

MAYBE SOME OF THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN TRANSPOSED?

Garry base is at Hoopertown, but which system?

SECRET

The Garry clan raided a Wreaken Mining platform, the last place he saw his kilt! (until Varia Malin gave it back to him). Which system? Anything to do with the Wreaken from "Protest against Wreaken" or just chance?

WREAKEN IS A BIG CORPORATE. THEY HAVE PLATFORMS IN MANY MANY SYSTEMS

Arouca system, planet New Aberdeen, Granite City; planet Orkney, Kirkwall outpost. The system is there but the planets and stations are not - odd.

YES, ODD.

Achenar, Fort Donalds is where the alliance stopped a rebel imperial plot. Fort Donalds is missing… where would a space station go?!

IT WAS THERE IN THE PREVIOUS GAME, WHICH WAS THE INFORMATION USED AT THE TIME OF WRITING AS THE GAME WASN'T FINISHED WHEN THE STORY WAS WRITTEN, GUESS THE NAME GOT CHANGED OR THE STATION WAS REMOVED FOR THE NEW GAME.

Has anyone seen the Thargoid war graves out past Leesti?

THE EDITING PROCESS CHANGED THIS WHOLE SPEECH, THE DIRECTORS CUT SHOULD HAVE THE COMPLETE SPEECH.

Olcanze is where Robert and Jordan were prisoners once. Apparently some sort of Imperial mining location. Unfortunately it seems to be missing from the game.

AGAIN THIS WAS IN THE PREVIOUS GAME, OBVIOUSLY IT WAS DECIDED TO REMOVE THIS SYSTEM FROM THE UNIVERSE FOR THE CURRENT GAME

CD-73 253 system is there but the planet Tarlak is missing.

YET THE SYSTEM IS DESCRIBED AS HAVING TARLAK. ODD.

Delta Phoenecis is there as well as the planets Anka, Kerkes and Garuda (the latter where they find the Imperial fleet), but planet Benu is missing.

I USED THE INFORMATION PROVIDED TO ME BY FD FOR THIS SYSTEM.

Smuggler 's junction is a pirate base hidden in an asteroid belt. The system apparently has two rogue planets and red dwarf star, but where is it?

SECRET

Aaymiay is mentioned in a song, is it a planet or a city?

SYSTEM, FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME.

From the new appendix so not canon:
The Gibraltar's Run pirate den, not in game as far as I know.

NOT SURE

The Mastopolos Mining Incorporated strip mine is on Jennings Hollow in the Enayex System. The system exists but where is the planet?

NOT SURE?

Locations which are in game
Skardee IV, the baking hot planet
Leesti continental reef - but can't visit the reef yet!
CIEP stole the Starburst weapon from Eta Cassiopeia… but which base?
Brohman system, planet Villist, Tranquille Base - but can't land at Tranquille Base yet
Tau Ceti coffee from Taylor's Landing - Taylor's Landing must be on the planet Taylor's Colony
Morgue's Mortuary, planet in Eta Eta Cassiopeia where the Federation navy train
Lanaest, where the CIEP tested the weapon on a gas platform
Epsilon Eridani, New California, Masseyville, worldcraft corp, - can't land at Masseyville yet
Cemiess
Vequess, Agnews' Folly, where they first tried to stop the Ceepers
Andceeth, lots of rich bankers there apparently
Delta Pavonis, there's a ship dealer who sells Kraits there apparenently
Grandmort, where the little statute is from
HR 4790, where Jordan was once ambushed by the Federation
Peter's Wreck in Facece, Imperial military and possibly prison world

References to things we should be able to do or use in-game, but currently can't
The Lanner has a generation 3 hyperdrive which Sirius Corp couldn't make misjump; Garry did it by reactivating it just as they enter hyperspace, and NO manoeuvring. Is this possible in ED?
The ability to over (or under) power modules - this would give more options for cool running, bravely-Sir-Robinning, etc.
Sonic depth charges for bombing gas giants
Riedquat ultra coffee - a rare good that's missing in game
Starburst weapon, although to be honest it's a bit like an energy bomb, not exactly "balanced"!
Eagle Explorer - is this just an Eagle fitted for exploration or a specific model? It is capitalised so assume a new model.
Lakon Type IV freighter - in ED they start at type 6, so what happened to the type 4?
Unidentified INRA ships, or are they just Condors?
Imperial Bismarck battlecruiser
Docking tubes used for large ships at space stations
Federation Behemoth capital ship
Liquid Inferno (a narcotic) - another potential rare good
What is a "Carrack Killer" Asp?

Noteworthy background "colour" stuff
Siloplastan acceleration couch
Tollett and Marks, Vega Corp, Graves, Kenematic Armaments make weapons

madbilly · Jan 31, 2018

Thargoid said:
Hi

Firstly, thanks everyone for the interest in the novel, its very appreciated. If you did enjoy it and haven't written an amazon review yet, I would really love it if you could please More reviews helps with Amazon algorithms for exposure, etc, etc.

Now, some answers:

General
The second scene on the Behemoth confirms the FFE main storyline and that the Dark Wheel didn't find Raxxla.

WHILE AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS WAS TRUE AS PER INFORMATION PROVIDED BY FD, THE FIRST ENCOUNTERS STORYLINE WAS LATER REDACTED.

Garry
On New California why does use "Ryder" as a fake name? Is it random or subconciously?

AHHHH, I WONDER?

In the Ceeper base, why didn't Garry break his cuffs on the cell's plasma bars?

HE DIDN'T WANT TO BREAK OUT, HE WAS WAITING FOR GUNN

Gunn
How come Gunn doesn't think Garry looks like Oberon?

HOW MUCH DO YOU LOOK LIKE YOUR GRANDFATHER?

Where and how did Gunn try to commit suicide? Why was it very public? The Kum Bay Yar sect held hostages there, and in FFE they were based on Peter's Eden in the Arexack system. Are they still there?
What happened on Thomson's World? How did Gunn's drink problem nearly ruin the peace process?

THERE IS A WHOLE ORIGIN STORY HERE FOR GUNN AND REVISITING THESE DEMONS WOULD BE A CRITICAL PART OF THE SEQUEL (IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN), SO WON'T REVEAL ANYTHING AT THIS STAGE....THERE WAS MORE ABOUT THIS IN THE 'DIRECTORS CUT' VERSION OF THE NOVEL, BUT MUCH WAS REMOVED IN THE EDITED RELEASE...IF YOU WANT THE DIRECTORS CUT VERSION OF THE EBOOK THEN PM ME.

The Circle of Independent Elite Pilots
Where was Oberon's coffin ship going?

HOME

Oberon's black coffin had a bird-style crest on it, sounds like Elite symbol, with the Latin words underneath. What are the latin words?

YES IT WAS THE ELITE SYMBOL, SIGNIFYING HIS ELITE COMBAT RANKING. FROM MEMORY THE LATIN PART CAME FROM THE DARK WHEEL

How did the Circle find them at Skardee IV after the misjump?

ALL THEIR TECH IS UPGRADED AGAINST STANDARD HUMAN TECH, DUE TO THE USE OF THARGOID TECH FROM SOONTILL

What's going on with the architect, his grandson, the pink room and his daughter?

NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN

What happened to the CIEP elders? Where did they go? Are they still out there?

THEY EVACUATED SOONTILL. THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE.....

What about the other CIEP bases? There were between 4-7 because the project endure message went to seven people, four were base commanders. Are these other bases now abandoned, waiting to be found?

THOSE BASES WOULD STILL BE THERE. SOONTILL WAS THE MAIN BASE AND THE SOURCE OF THEIR TECHNOLOGICAL PROWESS. NOW THEY ARE A WEAKENED FORCE.

What happened to Whithers and Gunn's other Ceeper "colleagues"?

MOST WOULD HAVE DIED IN THE VARIOUS BATTLES.

The Alliance
The Alliance helped stop a rebel imperial plot at Fort Donalds, Achenar. I believe that this is a nod to the FFE fan-fiction "Huge Plasma Accelerator" saga.

*WINK*

The Empire
Was it definitely the hidden tracking device on Gunn's ship, put there by the Imperial clone agents, which led the Empire to the INRA mothership?

YUP

Who was flying the Bismarck that attacked INRA?

THIS ISN'T CLEAR DUE TO THE EDITING, BUT SHOULD BE CLEARER IN THE DIRECTORS CUT - IT WAS THE IMPERIAL CLONE AGENTS AND OTHER IMPERIAL STAFF. WHEN THE IMPERIAL HALF OF INRA RETURNED HOME THEY WERE LOCKED UP /EXECUTED, ETC, BUT THE EQUIPMENT AND SHIPS WERE KEPT AROUND

The next in line to the throne after Harald is called the "butcher" of Reorte, or "Saviour" by the Empire. Who is it? Denton Patreus?

THIS ONE IS A BIT TRICKY....

The Federation
What was FEDSOD operation Thunderstruck?

I BELIEVE THE TECHNICAL TERM WOULD BE 'CLUSTER F__K'

Why didn't Blond and Brown double cross Garry and side with INRA? After all, the remaining INRA were all Federation, not Imperial.

INRA WERE ENEMIES OF THE STATE. AND BROWN HAD A SOFT SPOT FOR GARRY WHO WAS CLEARLY A FEDERATION 'CITIZEN' RATHER THAN JUST A CIVILIAN. BROWN IS A GOOD JUDGE OF CHARACTER.

INRA
Does the Admiral know that Garry is really a Ceeper?
HE DOES SEEM TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT HIM, DOESN'T HE?

Is crimson the uniform colour of INRA? Is this the uniform that also appears in Tales from the Frontier?

NOT SURE RE TALES FROM THE FRONTIER.

Some INRA ships got away, where are they now? Are they still out there, regrouping?

YES, SOME SURVIVED....

Thargoids
Is the green alloy that INRA Admiral McKowsky has from a thargoid ship? Meta-alloy?

YES, IT WAS PART OF THE HULL OF A THARGOID SHIP...IN THE 68000 SERIES OF ELITE GAMES, THARGOIDS WERE GREEN.

Other groups
Was the Calsace pirate gang from Calsace? I can't find that system, so maybe it's a family name.

FAMILY NAME.

What involvement have the children of Raxxla? Why mention them in the new (note non-canon) appendix?

BROWN WANTS TO KNOW WHAT THEY KNOW. IT'LL MAKE SENSE FOR THE SEQUEL.

Locations which are not yet in game (AFAIK)

I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED HERE. FOR MOST EXAMPLES I ASKED FD FOR WHAT I NEEDED IN TERMS OF SPATIAL POSITIONS AND STUFF IN THE SYSTEM AND FD CAME BACK WITH NAMES FOR ME TO USE.

Which system is Gunn's hidden circle space station in? It is probably a former imperial system since the rotation generates imperial standard gravity. It's somewhere explored, in the frontier, but apparently uninhabited apart from the Ceepers. The base is round a blue-white-green striped gas giant orbiting outside an asteroid belt around a red dwarf; it wasn't destroyed, so where is it?

SECRET

CD 32-331 system appears to be completely missing from game (in fact doesn't even appear in star catalogue). The Middleton gas giant is also missing.

MAYBE SOME OF THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN TRANSPOSED?

Garry base is at Hoopertown, but which system?

SECRET

The Garry clan raided a Wreaken Mining platform, the last place he saw his kilt! (until Varia Malin gave it back to him). Which system? Anything to do with the Wreaken from "Protest against Wreaken" or just chance?

WREAKEN IS A BIG CORPORATE. THEY HAVE PLATFORMS IN MANY MANY SYSTEMS

Arouca system, planet New Aberdeen, Granite City; planet Orkney, Kirkwall outpost. The system is there but the planets and stations are not - odd.

YES, ODD.

Achenar, Fort Donalds is where the alliance stopped a rebel imperial plot. Fort Donalds is missing… where would a space station go?!

IT WAS THERE IN THE PREVIOUS GAME, WHICH WAS THE INFORMATION USED AT THE TIME OF WRITING AS THE GAME WASN'T FINISHED WHEN THE STORY WAS WRITTEN, GUESS THE NAME GOT CHANGED OR THE STATION WAS REMOVED FOR THE NEW GAME.

Has anyone seen the Thargoid war graves out past Leesti?

THE EDITING PROCESS CHANGED THIS WHOLE SPEECH, THE DIRECTORS CUT SHOULD HAVE THE COMPLETE SPEECH.

Olcanze is where Robert and Jordan were prisoners once. Apparently some sort of Imperial mining location. Unfortunately it seems to be missing from the game.

AGAIN THIS WAS IN THE PREVIOUS GAME, OBVIOUSLY IT WAS DECIDED TO REMOVE THIS SYSTEM FROM THE UNIVERSE FOR THE CURRENT GAME

CD-73 253 system is there but the planet Tarlak is missing.

YET THE SYSTEM IS DESCRIBED AS HAVING TARLAK. ODD.

Delta Phoenecis is there as well as the planets Anka, Kerkes and Garuda (the latter where they find the Imperial fleet), but planet Benu is missing.

I USED THE INFORMATION PROVIDED TO ME BY FD FOR THIS SYSTEM.

Smuggler 's junction is a pirate base hidden in an asteroid belt. The system apparently has two rogue planets and red dwarf star, but where is it?

SECRET

Aaymiay is mentioned in a song, is it a planet or a city?

SYSTEM, FROM THE PREVIOUS GAME.

From the new appendix so not canon:
The Gibraltar's Run pirate den, not in game as far as I know.

NOT SURE

The Mastopolos Mining Incorporated strip mine is on Jennings Hollow in the Enayex System. The system exists but where is the planet?

NOT SURE?

Locations which are in game
Skardee IV, the baking hot planet
Leesti continental reef - but can't visit the reef yet!
CIEP stole the Starburst weapon from Eta Cassiopeia… but which base?
Brohman system, planet Villist, Tranquille Base - but can't land at Tranquille Base yet
Tau Ceti coffee from Taylor's Landing - Taylor's Landing must be on the planet Taylor's Colony
Morgue's Mortuary, planet in Eta Eta Cassiopeia where the Federation navy train
Lanaest, where the CIEP tested the weapon on a gas platform
Epsilon Eridani, New California, Masseyville, worldcraft corp, - can't land at Masseyville yet
Cemiess
Vequess, Agnews' Folly, where they first tried to stop the Ceepers
Andceeth, lots of rich bankers there apparently
Delta Pavonis, there's a ship dealer who sells Kraits there apparenently
Grandmort, where the little statute is from
HR 4790, where Jordan was once ambushed by the Federation
Peter's Wreck in Facece, Imperial military and possibly prison world

References to things we should be able to do or use in-game, but currently can't
The Lanner has a generation 3 hyperdrive which Sirius Corp couldn't make misjump; Garry did it by reactivating it just as they enter hyperspace, and NO manoeuvring. Is this possible in ED?
The ability to over (or under) power modules - this would give more options for cool running, bravely-Sir-Robinning, etc.
Sonic depth charges for bombing gas giants
Riedquat ultra coffee - a rare good that's missing in game
Starburst weapon, although to be honest it's a bit like an energy bomb, not exactly "balanced"!
Eagle Explorer - is this just an Eagle fitted for exploration or a specific model? It is capitalised so assume a new model.
Lakon Type IV freighter - in ED they start at type 6, so what happened to the type 4?
Unidentified INRA ships, or are they just Condors?
Imperial Bismarck battlecruiser
Docking tubes used for large ships at space stations
Federation Behemoth capital ship
Liquid Inferno (a narcotic) - another potential rare good
What is a "Carrack Killer" Asp?

Noteworthy background "colour" stuff
Siloplastan acceleration couch
Tollett and Marks, Vega Corp, Graves, Kenematic Armaments make weapons

Hi John, thanks for popping in and solving some mysteries! And for keeping some mysteries for the sequel - come on FDev, you know it makes sense

Re a few of the things you told us.

I think the current ED backstory permits all of the possible FFE endings to be the "true" ending - AFAIK, I'm happy to be corrected if there is something definitive in game now.
Where is "home" for Oberon? (I don't want an answer, this is for community speculation and tinfoiling, esp. in relation to the "Quest for Raxxla" thread.)
You mean the latin words are "The Dark Wheel" in latin?
The Architect is playing with his grandson in a pink room (I assume in the base on Soontill) and is reminiscing about not seeing his daughter again. I assumed there was some backstory here about why his daughter wasn't around.
As well as the CIEP Elders the Architect was taken away alive, so I assume he's still out there too.
I wonder how we could find the Ceeper bases? (I assume they're not in game, so this is total speculation).
Would be an interesting twist for Whithers, Jessica or the bloke with a soft spot to come after her in the sequel for revenge.
Is the "tricky" part about the second heir to the Imperial throne because what's happened in ED since release doesn't tie in with what the writers were told before hand? (that and it doesn't match FFE). Or is it consistent, but it's NDA.
I'm genuinely interested to know what actually happened in operation Thunderstruck... good subject for a short story
In one of the stories in Tales from the Frontier somebody finds a crimson uniform in a cupboard on a ship, it sounds very INRA but doesn't actually mention them.
There are CD systems, it will be a long search...!
Is it the Hoopertown in Wafaphi? Unfortunately this isn't in game
Obviously it would be great if Smugglers' Junction and the other locations were in game, maybe I'll make a list and submit it as a bug...

In the book "A scanner blip broke off from the INRA pack. A sand crab shaped Asp, the old military version. A Carrack Killer." What is a Carrack?! A sailing boat?

Like I said, thanks for popping in, I hope you get the opportunity to write another ED novel soon, with in-game tie-ins. AHTW -sets the stage for a great story alongside the current ED storyline. Until then we'll just have to keep speculating, especially on any hint of a clue that helps us find Raxxla

Cheers

Louis Calvert · Jan 31, 2018

Seconded on more AHTW an this list - I want to knew what the Ceepers are up to these days (I'm hoping they're in-game somewhere, I want to work for them... or maybe I already am....they're behind me aren't they?) and I want to know what Garry-Ryder is doing, is he back to pirating or following his Ryder heritage looking for Raxxla, or fighting the Thargoids?

madbilly said:
I think the current ED backstory permits all of the possible FFE endings to be the "true" ending - AFAIK, I'm happy to be corrected if there is something definitive in game now.

On this, I think it's likely we're seeing a merging of all the endings together. (more specifically, parts of all of them seem to be present). There was some sort of "incident(s)" around 3250 with the Thargoids in human space. There's apparently some conflict with the Thargoids (the attack on the Fafner colony), there's also some "talks" and a 'delegation'. There's also a human-flown Thargoid ship being seen in Alliance space. - Sources follow.

AHTW Says:

"The Admiral nodded. ‘From a by-gone age indeed. They never found Raxxla. But they found something else.’ He activated the holo-projector and a map of the galaxy materialised before him. ‘Neither of you were born at the time but when the Thargoids made their first peaceful contact, an inter-species convention facility was established. In the initial meetings the Thargoids mentioned a lost world; a world that they had once colonised and where they had completed amazing technical work. A world that even to them held an aura of magic. But they lost contact with the world and were unable to find it again. Covert surveillance recorded them discussing whether to ask humanity for help, though ultimately they didn’t respect or trust us enough. ‘When we translated the covert recording, the name of the planet was ‘Soontill’."

EERPG says:

3252 - Mic Turner and Meredith Argent begin searching for the Thargoids. While testing the drives of their specially-designed exploration ship Turner's Quest, the vessel disappears after jumping out of the Pleione system with Turner piloting it. Argent holds a memorial service for him later that year.

Meredith Argent launches a second exploration ship named Argent's Quest, which is piloted by an unnamed individual. According to leaked documents from the time, the pilot discovered a Thargoid outpost and returned to Alioth with a captured Thargoid vessel. The pilot was then allegedly contacted by INRA, and the Thargoid vessel departed Alioth that day, its destination unknown.

3253 - The Intergalactic Naval Reserve Arm is disbanded. After the previous year's Thargoid vessel incident, Meredith Argent claimed that it had been caused by an INRA infiltrator tasked with eradicating the Thargoids. Combined with campaigning by Alliance leaders, public and governmental opinion of the organisation soured rapidly, forcing its dissolution.

OotD says:
Moira's home colony (Fafner, in the Jotun System) was destroyed by Thargoids around 3250-ish, they carpet bombed the colony to dust and killed everyone that survived in the bunkers:

"I’ve no idea how long the bombardment lasted. It seemed like hours, but was probably only minutes. The bunker was the only structure to survive." "“We never knew what brought the Thargoids."

(Helen talking to Moira about Carl working with Thargoids):
"But Carl could have met with the Thargoids around then, couldn’t he, during their incursions?"

(Helen to Carl on board the Thargoid-made space station before he reveals they made it):
"I remember the pictures you took, during the human-Thargoid talks. Why emulate them?"

Galnet says:
"...given the fifty years of false hopes since Soontill was first mentioned by the Thargoids." Source: https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/18-MAY-3301

Galnet mentions the media leak in 3250 that revealed INRA (this was part of the story of FFE). https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/57ada8969657baeb6e876c6c
we also know that other parts of this element of the FFE story are in ED.

MB says:

“This is correct, there was no official agreement, or cooperation between humanity and the Thargoids in the Elite: Dangerous history. There has been some unofficial contact though."

Michael (Brookes) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-lore-change?p=4081362&viewfull=1#post4081362

Thargoid · Feb 1, 2018

Well CMDR Robert Garry is currently flying around in a Federal Assault Ship doing bounty hunting. (Fun Fact: The real Robert Garry (whom the character is named after - it was a crowd funding pledge tier to get that honour - flies in a wing with me and he finds it a touch confusing).

What is the character Robert Garry doing? Well the epilogue hints at what he is doing, but think about Brown's conversation with Robert at the end of the book and Robert's reply.

Robert's first priority is to find his father's ship to find the birth certificate so he can lay his dad to rest.

Robert is very clearly conflicted on his heritage, but a sequel would have seen a decision be made on what he is going to do about it.

Hanerib · Feb 1, 2018

I'm so happy to hear from the author that Robert is doing well, FAS is my favourite ship for some high intensity combat zone action. Can fly that thing even only on synth coffee. Maybe some day they will realize that only four kinds of rare commodity coffee isn't simply enough.

In the meantime I will most likely still keep scanning dark systems around Soontill, somebody must know where those relics originate from. And theres supposed to be Mysterious Idols somewhere too.

madbilly · Feb 1, 2018

Garry is bounty-hunting?! Wow, he's changed...!

Maybe we can do some triangulation from locations in the book to try and work out where Gunn's Ceeper base is. The others we don't have any idea about, AFAIK.

Thatchinho · Feb 2, 2018

Just wanted to add a voice to the callls for the sequel!

Jaiotu · Feb 2, 2018

Sequel? Sequel!!!

Jermus · Feb 2, 2018

Jaiotu said:
Sequel? Sequel!!!

+1 for this ^^

madbilly · Feb 5, 2018

Did I mention I'd like a sequel too?

I think John would probably like to write a sequel, in fact I think he's written a blog post or two about the subject. However, since AHTW he's been working on other game projects (Shallow Space, The Seed) plus a few other novels in his own universes which he probably doesn't want to be distracted from right now. And let's face it, working on the content for a sequel could be a total waste of time when FDev have seemed reticent to work on any tie-in fiction except Premonition.

Doesn't mean it won't happen, but I won't hold me breath either. Even if a sequel would tie in very well with the current in-game events and findings re INRA etc.

Louis Calvert · Feb 5, 2018

Maybe we can at least petition Fdev to consider hiring him to help out with Galnet - it's been somewhat sparse lately!

madbilly · Feb 5, 2018

Great suggestion! Yes, a little more colour in Galnet would be great. If we could bring back some of the different newsfeeds from FFE it would help greatly.