Need for snow in enclosures?

[markun]

I haven’t played the beta version but I have been watching lots of videos from people on YouTube.

Am I right in thinking that part of the snow leopard’s (and maybe other species) required habitat terrain is snow? If so I’m a bit concerned because that just isn’t realistic.

Apart from the occasional pile of snow and ice as an enrichment item out of season or in warm weather climates, zoos don’t have the ability to have parts of the enclosure under snow cover when it isn’t actually snowing or cold in the winter.

I’m a bit concerned that this might be a requirement for some species as it really does cross into the realm of fantasy. Fair enough if you don’t mind that but I want to make as realistic zoos as I possibly can.

 

[LN]

It's realistic for the Leopard....

 

[markun]

It's realistic for the Leopard....

I hate to be picky but snow leopards aren’t leopards... but anyway, the game is about building zoos, not wild habitats. So it’s only realistic if it’s snowing all over the zoo.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Yes, it is unfortunately a neccesity in Planet Zoo for some species. I'm with you on that, that it's not realistic and that it really hinders building realistic zoos. I have two work-arounds for you, though.

1. Build an only indoor-enclosure for that species. Just like with tropical houses you could manipulate the climate more easily then and at least in tempered biomes also have snow. If it would be nice for guests to come into an ice house when it's 30+ degree outside in summer is another topic... The Planco peolpe won't mind though.

2. Cover the snow terrain with flat floor/roof pieces. The animal will still be satisfied, as there technically is snow, but you won't see it, making the habitat look a bit more realistic.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

For me, especially your tip 1. is the way to go. The second one seems a little bit ... gamey?

Anyway, apparently closed buildings do indeed prohibit the temperature difference from "bleeding out".
Which is a nice detail and compensates a bit for the unrealistic cooling/heating of uncovered terrain.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Why gamey? I believe it was Jonti from Geekism who covered his ground with stones in an indoor exhibit. From an realistic point you must remember, that the habitats must be easy to clean for the staff. Which grass really isn't. Wait, I'll link the video.

Geekisms awesomeness

 

[markun]

Hmmm. It’s a bit frustrating to have to come up with workarounds when the game prides itself on realism.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

I don't think, building an indoor enclouser can be labeled "workaround". For me personally, it's a completely valid game option. Especially, due to the mentioned temperature dispersion (or actually the lack of it).

Regarding geeksim's cover-up trick:
I haven't so far seen the movie you've linked (thank you for that; by the way; I will watch it later), but his peafowl enclousure.
The trick itself is neat and I will use it to hide my visitor pathes.
But the peafowl enclousure itself made me wince! Those poor birds! They want to scrabble in the ground and not live a miserable life on hard stone floors! That's just mean and will not be reproduced in my future zoos!

 

[Swjosdotschka]

The peafowl thing was kind of meant to be awful. The idea behind it was, that the zoo takes one of those horrible old exhibits you had in the 19th century in zoos and turn it into something usefull. However, I agree that this has nothing to do with animal wellfare. So does stone in indoor exhibits in modern zoos. I guess that's the difference between "realistic" as in seen today and "ideal". For the latter, real life zoos often have still waaay to go. (But I honestly don't know how we will ever live without easy to clean undergrounds in habitats.)
When I called it work-around I really just meant the snow-problem. Of course indoor habitats and cover-ups are both a solid game option in general.

I totally get your point. That's why I'll have multiple zoos Realistic ones and "feel-good ones". And a merge probably.

 

[markun]

I don't think, building an indoor enclouser can be labeled "workaround". For me personally, it's a completely valid game option. Especially, due to the mentioned temperature dispersion (or actually the lack of it).

For me it’s a completely unrealistic game option. I appreciate that you might be happy with it but for me that’s creating a fantasy world which isn’t what I want to do.

Apart from all-indoor enclosures for Antarctic penguins and Singapore Zoo’s Frozen Tundra (not sure if that has actual snow), generally speaking snow covered indoor enclosures simply don’t exist in zoos.

I aim to create realistic zoos and that means no snow cover unless there is naturally fallen snow due to the local climate.

 

[VetGirl330]

Or you could choose to build a snow leopard exhibit in a warm climate and not include any snow. Assuming the other welfare needs are met your animal would not be 100% happy without snow but they wouldn't unduly. To me this is rather realistic. Despite the fact that some zoos have tried you cannot keep species such as snow leopards or polar bears truly happy in hot climates. Luckily most such zoos have been slowly phasing out polar bears in these climates .

 

[LN]

For me it’s a completely unrealistic game option. I appreciate that you might be happy with it but for me that’s creating a fantasy world which isn’t what I want to do.

Apart from all-indoor enclosures for Antarctic penguins and Singapore Zoo’s Frozen Tundra (not sure if that has actual snow), generally speaking snow covered indoor enclosures simply don’t exist in zoos.

I aim to create realistic zoos and that means no snow cover unless there is naturally fallen snow due to the local climate.

In short:

Am I right in thinking that part of the snow leopard’s (and maybe other species) required habitat terrain is snow?

Yes.

Not happy with it? Fill in a request under wishlist......

Snow leopard normally live in snowy surroundings, Zoo's generally give that optical feeling with having just white painted floors/walls. Now you do it with "snow".

You not being happy with that is understandable. But it's part of the game mechanic, so nothing you can do about it besides making a suggestion.
I do hope habitat requirements are less restrictive in sandbox.

 

[markun]

Snow leopard normally live in snowy surroundings, Zoo's generally give that optical feeling with having just white painted floors/walls. Now you do it with "snow".

Snow leopards don’t live in constant snow covered landscapes in the wild. It depends on the season and altitude.

Zoos really don’t create optical illusions of snow, not these days. Well-designed snow leopard enclosures have rock, trees, foliage but not fake snow.

For polar bears too, instead of fake icebergs of white concrete we are starting to see open meadows, varied substrates and grassy paddocks.

 

[LN]

Snow leopards don’t live in constant snow covered landscapes in the wild. It depends on the season and altitude.

Zoos really don’t create optical illusions of snow, not these days. Well-designed snow leopard enclosures have rock, trees, foliage but not fake snow.

For polar bears too, instead of fake icebergs of white concrete we are starting to see open meadows, varied substrates and grassy paddocks.

Perfectly clear. That is why you don't need 100% snow coverage in your habitat, but only a small portion.

 

[Cile]

I mean, you don't neeed snow you can choose not to add it, sure you won't get 100% on the terrain needs, but it wont like kill the animal or ruin the game or anything... The timber wolf, the snow leopard and the Formosan black bear all require snow as part of their terrain needs, but its only 1 of many terrain needs, and is therefore not required, just wanted. if you meet all their other needs then it should not be an issue to not have snow.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I mean, you don't neeed snow you can choose not to add it, sure you won't get 100% on the terrain needs, but it wont like kill the animal or ruin the game or anything... The timber wolf, the snow leopard and the Formosan black bear all require snow as part of their terrain needs, but its only 1 of many terrain needs, and is therefore not required, just wanted. if you meet all their other needs then it should not be an issue to not have snow.

Are you sure? I remember the Timber Wolf doesn't need snow to have green welfare and the black bear as well. But I thought I remember the Snow Leopard being a difference on that.

 

[MaximusSC]

For me it’s a completely unrealistic game option. I appreciate that you might be happy with it but for me that’s creating a fantasy world which isn’t what I want to do.

Apart from all-indoor enclosures for Antarctic penguins and Singapore Zoo’s Frozen Tundra (not sure if that has actual snow), generally speaking snow covered indoor enclosures simply don’t exist in zoos.

I aim to create realistic zoos and that means no snow cover unless there is naturally fallen snow due to the local climate.

I wouldn't say that zoos having habitats that are climate controlled and even contain snow is 'unrealistic'. It is quite possible, even if it hasn't actually been built anywhere yet, for a zoo to build an indoor habitat where the temperature could be maintained at levels to maintain snow within an enclosure. At the very least the concept has been considered by real zoos.

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Thus options to build indoor enclosures, as others have suggested in this thread, is a viable and realistic game option if players want to undertake the effort to build such structures.

 

[tigris115]

See we got snow leopards in Central Park and in the Bronx where summers can get decently hot so they're fine without snow all the time. What they really need is rocky, uneven terrain as even in the wild, when there's no snow, that's what there is.

 

[Bobble2017]

There is nothing to stop you making the inside of your cave or shelter snow landscape and then cover it over with the bedding so you don't see it , It may seem cheating to some but its a way round seeing snow on the ground if you do not want it , It would also give you the snow coverage to get your habitat landscaping up to 100%

 

[dannydanbo]

It's a cartoon game. They gave us snow and air conditioners to keep cold loving animals happy. What more do you want? Did you google arctic animals in zoos to see how they are treated in real life? These cartoons have it better.