Ships Need help and tips for my first FDL fully engineered build

Hello Commanders , i'm making this thread because i want your opinions on my first engineered Fer-de-Lance build , i have all the materials required for it , all the engineers unlocked , but while making it i might have been a bit overboard with the G5 modules , what do you think of it ? :

https://s.orbis.zone/pqb

As you can see , this might be quite the monster but i was wondering if some G5 upgrades are necessary (for the powerplant mainly , because with G5 i'm left with tons of unused energy) , should i go full G5 everywhere ? or should i save the mats for a future build ?

Also what about the Guardian modules ? are they worth it against A-rated G5 mods ?

Should i upgrade the armour and if yes with what effects (and experimental effects) ?

Any tips on the experimental effects (like for thermal venting) ?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm quite the noob on engineered mods for the moment. :D
 
What do you want that FdL for?

- you can switch to armoured pp/thermal spread. way more heat efficient and not that easy to shoot out
- I'd go for long range sensors if you do a lot of haz res
- you should at least add one, better two resistance augmented boosters, skip the point-defence
 
What do you want that FdL for?

- you can switch to armoured pp/thermal spread. way more heat efficient and not that easy to shoot out
- I'd go for long range sensors if you do a lot of haz res
- you should at least add one, better two resistance augmented boosters, skip the point-defence

It's an FDL for Haz RES/Conflict Zone.

-- Ok , so if i switch to Armoured Power Plant with Thermal Spread , i am at 91.1% power use , so does that make room for possible changes with other engineered weapons ? Seems like a good choice though , i'll probably change it for this.

-- Fine for long range , but do i need to switch from 4D to 4A ?

-- So , resistance augmented boosters would be better than heavy duty with Super capacitors ? Should i apply the Super Capacitors effect to those as well ?

And for the Point Defense … i don't know , seemed useful so far when pythons uses rocket and missiles against me , is it really that bad ?
 
For my bounty hunting ships, (and most of the others...) - I don't bother with lightweight Kill Warrant Scanners. If you have access to Tiana Fortune, the convenience of a grade 5 Fast Scan mod is well, a game changer. Your KWS scan range will be shortened by a kilometer, sure, but your scans will be over in 2 seconds instead of 10.

Grade 5 overcharged PP is overkill though, unless you use incredibly power-hungry weapons, which you don't. Either go with Armoured and Thermal Spread, or overcharge it to a lower grade (and get the Thermal Spread experimental effect on top) for less heat build up.

*The Guardian FSD booster is definitely worth it for convenience. I put one in my FDL for traveling (sometimes I just leave it in when I'm at my destination too.) - **along with a larger fuel tank and a Fuel Scoop.

I also tend to leave those in place when bounty hunting but I'm lazy and careful, so my shields very rarely drop into the final ring.

I'd personally go back to lightweight armour if I were you. Those 50 tons are much better spent elsewhere on a fast combat ship like the FDL. You can boost away from almost anything that can really hurt you, and light weight armour has no weight penalty when modded for heavy duty.

*) When I feel that I need extra protection and I'm at my destination system, I will sometimes ship in a hull reinforcement package and a module reinforcement instead of the fuel scoop and guardian fsd booster.

**) obviously I also swap the extra fuel tank for something else unless the haz rez is really far from the station where I intend to cash in the bounties.

Just my opinion though, your mileage may vary. But If nothing else, at least drop the G5 PP to something more approaching your power needs. And try a fast scan KWS, you won't regret it.
 
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Here are some of the small changes that I would make while keeping the general idea of your build intact:

https://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_l...QgIwV3fEQA==&bn=Fer-de-Lance ultimate build ?

The main things are these: switching to some resistance boosters to get more effective shield strength. Dropping the heat sink as you already have thermal vent beams and the SCB is class 4 anyhow. Changing the PP to armored and monstered to get a lot better heat efficiency while still having enough power for all of your needs. And upgrading your sensors so you actually see new targets far enough (as this is obviously a BH ship). I personally do not use KWS, but as you had one, I followed the advice from above and switched it to fast scan instead.

Regardless, your build is solid anyhow.

Oh btw. My shield tank FAS has almost double the effective shield strength of that FDL, but it is a one trick pony (hell of a fun to fly though) [EDITED as build was missing fuel scoop that I fly with]:

https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_assault_ship?code=A4pktkFflkdpsff40o2b1g1g04040404B21K321J1J1F1E1E.Iw18aQ%3D%3D.MwBj5AmSEY%2FhCg%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA2P4x87AwPCXFUj8mQQkuPcwMTDwNvAwMAhGAFlCO7gZGFS%2BMDIw%2FGf8Zw9XWQskOI5wMjDw23z7%2F19sAT9QnumfGFy%2BBEjwq%2Fz6%2F1%2FkDZAQBclLbGBhYFAuEAeqZP4nBVdZAVMJtkmkRhSo8g5Q5j%2FLP0OQIhaQfMIHoPyWR%2F%2F%2F%2F2f9ZwnX2ggkOHn%2B%2Ff%2FPNUWQgUERxFICsVRBLDUQ6z%2Fbv0SYciEBdQYGPY8v%2F%2F9L%2BsgCpTj%2BBcNNkgMSrAlA77DlvPv%2FX8Lh7f%2F%2FyhNeAK3jRFKUhksRFzGKuIlRxPPPHa5oDigylrABfR%2Fw%2B%2F9%2FQRBLAhTiKiDWf16iVfIRrZKfaJUC%2F%2FxgKvlBcSsIUqQCjtv%2FDGgAAAesduphAgAA.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK4fiIA%3D%3D
 
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Without changing your weapons, I'd suggest another SCB, reactive armor, chaff, LR A rated sensors and armored PP.

Something more like: https://s.orbis.zone/pw1

That said, you will have a tough time with targets at a distance.
Efficient lasers have terrible damage falloff and gimbals w/projectiles don't track great.
I suggest getting comfortable with rails asap.
 
You can always close the distance as needed. Anyhow I recalled that Vindicator Jones made a good comparison for unengineered vs engineered FDL with a build that is pretty close to what you were considering so here you can actually check what kind of an improvement you can expect with that plan of yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q12ecoo3Fsk
 
That is true for pvp most likely (I would not know as I do not pvp in Elite). For haz res and cz I have never had trouble closing the distance in a FDL.
 
That is true for pvp most likely (I would not know as I do not pvp in Elite). For haz res and cz I have never had trouble closing the distance in a FDL.

Yes, lowest common denominator...
They fly right at you.

I suggested that OPs build is ironically, inefficient.
It's true, but it's only an suggestion.
I'm not saying it won't work, only that it's more work.

Damage falloff starts at 500m for efficient lasers.
That is terrible, sorry.


I use rails and PAs in bounty hunting CGs and get in the top 10%, while doing PVP at the same time.
And no plasma slug mods so I run out of ammo quick.
That is outweighed by the lower time on target and time to kill.

Combat efficiency against players = even stronger against NPCs.
If you can't kill one enemy quickly, you will kill 100 more slowly too.
 
I am not going to argue over details here. For larger ships I sometimes use fall-off reducing elements also (like long range lasers). Never needed that with FDL but I appreciate that there are alternative ways to fight with that ship also :) In case the original poster is still looking into this thread there is some falloff discussion on this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...new-range-increasing-decreasing-modifications

It is an old thread, but those falloff mechanics still apply for unengineered weapons. Long range mod removes the falloff for lasers, but the benefits for that are better for larger ships in my opinion and there are better engineering options available for small(er), fast and agile ships.
 
I am not going to argue over details here. For larger ships I sometimes use fall-off reducing elements also (like long range lasers). Never needed that with FDL but I appreciate that there are alternative ways to fight with that ship also :) In case the original poster is still looking into this thread there is some falloff discussion on this thread:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...new-range-increasing-decreasing-modifications

It is an old thread, but those falloff mechanics still apply for unengineered weapons. Long range mod removes the falloff for lasers, but the benefits for that are better for larger ships in my opinion and there are better engineering options available for small(er), fast and agile ships.


Could have fooled me, lol.

OP is using efficient, not lr.

2 rail gun shots do a bit more damage than a full second of all 4 of those beams (~30%), and it only takes a split second to land them.
You can also do it from a distance.
When you have high time on target weapons you also expose yourself to more damage.

The title of OPs build says "Ultimate?" so I assume being straightforward is appropriate and appreciated.
That build is not "Ultimate".

I am trying to steer the OP into a build that will make them a defensively better pilot, and kill faster.
Why are you are taking contention with that?
 
You can always close the distance as needed. Anyhow I recalled that Vindicator Jones made a good comparison for unengineered vs engineered FDL with a build that is pretty close to what you were considering so here you can actually check what kind of an improvement you can expect with that plan of yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q12ecoo3Fsk

Thanks for the video !

Yes, lowest common denominator...
They fly right at you.

I suggested that OPs build is ironically, inefficient.
It's true, but it's only an suggestion.
I'm not saying it won't work, only that it's more work.

Damage falloff starts at 500m for efficient lasers.
That is terrible, sorry.


I use rails and PAs in bounty hunting CGs and get in the top 10%, while doing PVP at the same time.
And no plasma slug mods so I run out of ammo quick.
That is outweighed by the lower time on target and time to kill.

Combat efficiency against players = even stronger against NPCs.
If you can't kill one enemy quickly, you will kill 100 more slowly too.

I'm thinking about trying putting a huge railgun on it to test , i already tried with a PA but it's not my style and i can't aim with a slow weapon (it also empty my weapon Energy quite fast).
i use beam lasers because i like the sci-fi feeling when using them and i mostly fight at close range or very close with my FDL so damage fall-off isn't a problem because by the time the enemy turns , he lost all his shield or almost all of it and for fast ships , they just fly straight at me so i use my beams at close range.

Before , i was using a build with 1 Huge beam laser and 4 MC's but it was ineficient and my ammo was running out way too fast so i changed it with my actual build.


Idk what's really efficient on an FDL though , i don't like MC's (except on the huge hardpoint since it doesn't run out of ammo often) , Plasma Accelerators are emptying my Energy too fast , have low ammo count and i can't hit with them.
I will try using a Huge Railgun but i'm afraid of the low ammo count.
Any ideas of what effects (and experimentals) to use on a Huge Railgun to make it good ?

So what would be a good PVE build ?
1 huge Railgun , 2 beams and 2 railguns ?

Also don't worry , you don't need to say sorry if my build is bad , i'm trying to be a better pilot so please be harsh on me and my build :D


And sorry for my slow replies , i need moderator approval for each of my posts for some reason and mods are sleeping sometimes. :p
 
My reply disappeared to bit void so I will give a brief summary :)

Huge hardpoint is rather limited on what you can put there:
- Lasers: pulse, burst and beam
- Cannon (very limited ammo)
- Plasma accelerator (very limited ammo)
- Multicannon (OK ammo, especially for huge as the rate of fire is not that high)

Railguns come only in small and medium sizes.

Basically I like this build or something similar:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...h3hX3QIAAA==.EweloBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV3fEQA==

I left one utility slot empty for what ever purpose you would like to use it and the bottom three internal slots are also very flexible. The SCB is there, but as it is only size 4 it does not really give that much benefit (the total of all charges amounts to 600+ MJ, which is not really much at all. Personally I often do not bother with SCB at all. Just fly away if shields are dropping. Of the lasers I am not certain... either effective beams or effective or focused bursts. If the mediums are efffective bursts I would be tempted to test an effective laser on the huge hardpoint also, but I have not done that yet and have flown with the corrosive overcharged multicannon there (which certainly works fine).

This is good for PvE, for PvP you may try something else instead.
 
I tried putting something like this without engineering (for now) :

https://s.orbis.zone/qfu

Obviously it's not the final build because it lacks energy (kill warrant scanner is turned off) , i had a lot of fun with the rail guns today so i'll keep those , i don't know if i should keep the ginballed beams though and i'm still questioning the utility of the Plasma Accelerator (i tested it against some big ships at Isinor unauthorized installation) , the PA is good against big ships but i can't hit anything smaller than a python , so maybe keeping the MC would be for the best ?
No idea what effects to put on the railguns though (and i love them so much except for the massive heat but it still works without hurting my ship when using this loadout).
 
Thanks for the video !



I'm thinking about trying putting a huge railgun on it to test , i already tried with a PA but it's not my style and i can't aim with a slow weapon (it also empty my weapon Energy quite fast).
i use beam lasers because i like the sci-fi feeling when using them and i mostly fight at close range or very close with my FDL so damage fall-off isn't a problem because by the time the enemy turns , he lost all his shield or almost all of it and for fast ships , they just fly straight at me so i use my beams at close range.

Before , i was using a build with 1 Huge beam laser and 4 MC's but it was ineficient and my ammo was running out way too fast so i changed it with my actual build.


Idk what's really efficient on an FDL though , i don't like MC's (except on the huge hardpoint since it doesn't run out of ammo often) , Plasma Accelerators are emptying my Energy too fast , have low ammo count and i can't hit with them.
I will try using a Huge Railgun but i'm afraid of the low ammo count.
Any ideas of what effects (and experimentals) to use on a Huge Railgun to make it good ?

So what would be a good PVE build ?
1 huge Railgun , 2 beams and 2 railguns ?

Also don't worry , you don't need to say sorry if my build is bad , i'm trying to be a better pilot so please be harsh on me and my build :D


And sorry for my slow replies , i need moderator approval for each of my posts for some reason and mods are sleeping sometimes. :p



Rail guns don't come in huge.

Remember to consider the damage potential vs ammo too.
One rail gun shot does a lot of damage, so the low ammo is misleading.

It really depends what your goals are.
If you rely on high "time on target" like lasers or MCs, then you cannot fly as defensively.
It builds bad habits and makes you lazy since NPCs just fly right at you.

If you commit to learning fixed, low TOT, high DPS weapons on the other hand, you'll be a better pilot.

So, for a beginner in solo/pg I might suggest 2 gimballed medium long range, thermal vent beams.
Use those for most of your fighting.
They will fire forever and do decent damage even at a distance.

A huge gimballed OC/corrosive MC.
Use this to support the beams and take down hull.
2 long range rail guns w/feedback cascade.
Use these to learn, and try to target the SCB recharges.

If you are ok with some asymmetry; 2 LR beams as above, huge OC/oversized + 1 medium, hicap/corrosive MC, and one LR feedback rail.
In the beginning you probably won't land the rails often, so another MC would help more.

Another option is 3 efficient PAs(TLB/dazzle/dispersal), 2 LR gimballed beams.

Finally, don't overlook frags.
A huge LR thermal vent beam(Or maybe a focused burst w/scramble for easier pip management) and 4 OC/screening frags (1 with corrosive) will mow down enemies.

Just learn the proper ranges and tactics for the various weapons.
When I pair rails and PAs, I "feed" the PAs to the enemy as I am about to pass, and use the rails at a distance.
Same for frags, I use them as the enemy is close and closing.

If you end up with efficient lasers, make sure you save them for very close range.
Don't waste your distributor capacity by fighting the damage falloff.

So to recap;
Rails, use long range.

If you can, use long range or focused for lasers, and know efficient comes with poor range.

Efficient PAs are slow, but if you use them properly you will mow down NPCs like nothing.
Efficient is powerful, easy to set up, and will make you use them thoughtfully since they are slow.
Focused and LR are faster projectiles, but run way hotter and do less damage.

Use OC for your kinetics.
Corrosive is very useful, but it costs ammo cap so put it on one of the smaller ones if possible.
Drag, dispersal and screening are good for frags.
 

AP Birdman

Banned
Hello Commanders , i'm making this thread because i want your opinions on my first engineered Fer-de-Lance build , i have all the materials required for it , all the engineers unlocked , but while making it i might have been a bit overboard with the G5 modules , what do you think of it ? :

https://s.orbis.zone/pqb

As you can see , this might be quite the monster but i was wondering if some G5 upgrades are necessary (for the powerplant mainly , because with G5 i'm left with tons of unused energy) , should i go full G5 everywhere ? or should i save the mats for a future build ?

Also what about the Guardian modules ? are they worth it against A-rated G5 mods ?

Should i upgrade the armour and if yes with what effects (and experimental effects) ?

Any tips on the experimental effects (like for thermal venting) ?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm quite the noob on engineered mods for the moment. :D

Yikes! That build is gonna get you killed.
Here's a strictly pvp build

https://s.orbis.zone/qgc

You can ignore my hardpoints since it looks like you only use gimballed but your shields and armor should be the same.
Also, your powerplant needs to be armored, you need to switch your armor to reactive with lightweight/deep plating otherwise you'll lose a lot of speed and run 1 hull reinforcement with thermal resistance to even out your resistances. You also should run long range or lightweight sensors, wide angle is completely useless. And you don't need to run that many hull reinforcements because the fdl is a shield tank and once your shields go down you should be trying to GTefO anyway.
 
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AP Birdman

Banned
Rail guns don't come in huge.

Remember to consider the damage potential vs ammo too.
One rail gun shot does a lot of damage, so the low ammo is misleading.

It really depends what your goals are.
If you rely on high "time on target" like lasers or MCs, then you cannot fly as defensively.
It builds bad habits and makes you lazy since NPCs just fly right at you.

If you commit to learning fixed, low TOT, high DPS weapons on the other hand, you'll be a better pilot.

So, for a beginner in solo/pg I might suggest 2 gimballed medium long range, thermal vent beams.
Use those for most of your fighting.
They will fire forever and do decent damage even at a distance.

A huge gimballed OC/corrosive MC.
Use this to support the beams and take down hull.
2 long range rail guns w/feedback cascade.
Use these to learn, and try to target the SCB recharges.

If you are ok with some asymmetry; 2 LR beams as above, huge OC/oversized + 1 medium, hicap/corrosive MC, and one LR feedback rail.
In the beginning you probably won't land the rails often, so another MC would help more.

Another option is 3 efficient PAs(TLB/dazzle/dispersal), 2 LR gimballed beams.

Finally, don't overlook frags.
A huge LR thermal vent beam(Or maybe a focused burst w/scramble for easier pip management) and 4 OC/screening frags (1 with corrosive) will mow down enemies.

Just learn the proper ranges and tactics for the various weapons.
When I pair rails and PAs, I "feed" the PAs to the enemy as I am about to pass, and use the rails at a distance.
Same for frags, I use them as the enemy is close and closing.

If you end up with efficient lasers, make sure you save them for very close range.
Don't waste your distributor capacity by fighting the damage falloff.

So to recap;
Rails, use long range.

If you can, use long range or focused for lasers, and know efficient comes with poor range.

Efficient PAs are slow, but if you use them properly you will mow down NPCs like nothing.
Efficient is powerful, easy to set up, and will make you use them thoughtfully since they are slow.
Focused and LR are faster projectiles, but run way hotter and do less damage.

Use OC for your kinetics.
Corrosive is very useful, but it costs ammo cap so put it on one of the smaller ones if possible.
Drag, dispersal and screening are good for frags.

I would say 1 rail (long range w/ feedback cascade) comes in pretty huge when fighting someone with SCB's
 
I would say 1 rail (long range w/ feedback cascade) comes in pretty huge when fighting someone with SCB's

Yes, for sure.
Not sure if I gave a contrary impression somehow but I absolutely agree.
I suggest learning rails as a priority, but I realize they are not the easiest weapon to land.

Rails/hammers and PAs/APAs are my favorite weapons, hands down.
 
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