Ships Need Ship Suggestions for non-horizons Elite PvP

I'm going to go back and give the non-horizons version of Elite a try again. No engineers, no PP weapons, no aliens. Might be kinda cool actually.

So, I have to completely rethink my ship building. What would make a good ship for PvP using basic A-rated modules and stock weapons?

Maybe some of the old timers (those who played pre-horizons) could help with some suggestions? Thanks. :)
 
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The post-1.4 FDL was at least as dominant pre-Engineering as it is currently, and this will be even more true with modern thermal mechanisms. Other ships can certainly work, but few will really be competitive. Back in the day I tended to favor medium gimbaled kinetics and a large fixed beam or burst laser, but the fixed medium MC + huge PA setup was much more common. I also had some success with fixed pulse lasers and a frag cannon. However, that was all before there were any huge hardpoint weapons other than cannon and PA; there is more variety possible now. I'd probably go with a huge gimbaled MC, and fixed pulse lasers, plus rails.

SCBs were even more effective pre-Engineers, as there was no counter to them and they restored proportionally more shielding. Since there was no way to by pass shields either, keeping them up, in ships that were at all shield focused, was even more critical than it currently is. My final pre-2.1 FDL setup had an A5+A4 SCBs.

Beyond the FDL, the FAS and Vulture could be fairly competitive, as could certain Clipper loadouts. The Chief and Kraits would probably also do well. I still the the FDL would be the most effective all-rounder, however.

I am personally curious about how the Mamba performs in un-Engineered PvP...I have a fair bit of experience with the ship, but I never played with it much unmodded.
 
I'm more of a shield tank person than a hull tank type. So it's probably a FDL or a Mamba for combat.

A Krait can carry larger SCBs but without engineering I'll need to sacrifice a shield booster for a heat sink. Non-engineered shields will fall faster, which requires more SCBs, which need more heat sinks. Hmm... One of my favorite ship, the Python can carry even larger SCBs, but without engineering I don't think I want to get into a in-close knife fight in one. And without engineering it's probably going to be too slow as well
. :(

It's going to take a bit of different thinking in a non-engineered world. Even doing missions is going to require a bit of a re-think on a armed trader. If that's even possible.

Thanks for the help/suggestions. :)
 
Thanks Robert. So much for PvP in non-Horizons. I've no interest in taking on pack-hounds and special shields in a non-engineered ship. Kinda stupid actually (IMO)

I may still take a un-engineered Mamba into a base-game haz-res just to see if I can do it though. Mobius or Solo though.
 
I thought Power Play weps were Horizons only? If not, then it's not as even a playing field as I had hoped.
Yeah, sorry about that. Before I got my Pack-Hounds, I ran with 4 turreted pluses and a multi-cannon. Dante, did not go deep enough, to write about, the place I am heading.
 
I've no interest in taking on pack-hounds and special shields in a non-engineered ship.

I think your over thinking this. When my wing mates want to duel and don't want to bother with who's done the most grinding we just buy the same stock ship in whatever system we're in have have a go at it.
 
I think your over thinking this. When my wing mates want to duel and don't want to bother with who's done the most grinding we just buy the same stock ship in whatever system we're in have have a go at it.

Thanks, but I won't be dueling with wingmates, as I don't have any.

I just thought I'd try putting a ship together and go looking for open squares/triangles in some of the known areas like Jameson. Just to see how I'd fare against a person instead of a NPC.

I thought that pre-horizons was a level playing field. Guess FD couldn't even get that right. :(

But thanks for the suggestion! :)
 
I thought that pre-horizons was a level playing field. Guess FD couldn't even get that right. :(

Not sure what you mean? Combat ship builds always beat Trader builds at Combat but lose at Trading. FDL & Mamba are both Medium ships so will beat small ships usually. Different builds were available for different play-styles and purposes with some maybe arguably multi purpose for most activities.

If you mean PP modules, they are available to all so still level playing field, unless someone who can afford A rated is also not on the same playing field as a noob who only has E rated? You mean each time we get a new uprated module we should be moved into a new group with only those modules?

All modules in pre-Horizons or with Horizons are available to all players in that version through the same unlock requirements, cash or otherwise. Time is the main divider not the playing field.
 
I got burned out on the game grind unlocking all the engineers. So I'm not interested in unlocking the PP trinkets. Nor the guardian and alien stuff. I just have no interest.

For those who enjoy that stuff, it's cool. Those of us who don't wish to do the time invest are at a disadvantage right out of the gate, regardless of player skill level. And that's OK as well.

I'll just go back to playing my way. It's not a big deal. :)
 
I'm more of a shield tank person than a hull tank type. So it's probably a FDL or a Mamba for combat.

Some clips showing the evolution of my preferred pre-Engineer FDL loadout:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQF7SZIkxy4


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq9TDEvg-tU


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd7hG8CTVg8


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBzzpMVuanc


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvgemnR_4Lw

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IPEGdUw1Gs


First two are from before the original FDL buff, rest are post-buff, but prior to Engineers.

A Krait can carry larger SCBs but without engineering I'll need to sacrifice a shield booster for a heat sink. Non-engineered shields will fall faster, which requires more SCBs, which need more heat sinks. Hmm... One of my favorite ship, the Python can carry even larger SCBs, but without engineering I don't think I want to get into a in-close knife fight in one. And without engineering it's probably going to be too slow as well
. :(

More than a two SCBs will be very problematic in any ship that doesn't need to double-bank to restore most of it's shields and only has four utilities. I had a fair bit of success with a shieldless Python in one of the pre-Engineer betas. It's was well suited for it.

So much for PvP in non-Horizons. I've no interest in taking on pack-hounds and special shields in a non-engineered ship.

None of the PP modules are game breakers, or even particularly unbalancing, especially without Engineering. Prismatics are power hungry and heavy (both more of an issue without Engineered plants and distributors) while unmodified packhounds aren't very effective vs. shields and can be countered by silent running or heatsinks when emissive is not a factor.
 
I'm going to go back and give the non-horizons version of Elite a try again. No engineers, no PP weapons, no aliens. Might be kinda cool actually.

So, I have to completely rethink my ship building. What would make a good ship for PvP using basic A-rated modules and stock weapons?

Maybe some of the old timers (those who played pre-horizons) could help with some suggestions? Thanks. :)
I don't know if it's different on console than it is on PC but when me and my bro were playing together he had horizons and I didn't and we could still play together no problem in open. I'm pretty sure you'll just be facing people that do have power play weapons and engineers in your unengineered PVP ship. It's your rebuy but I wouldn't recommend it
 
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