New distribution benefit minimal, for Powerplay2 hand-ins, handed in at Galatic Power HQ systems

[Vurrath]

Is it just me, or are players deliberately handing in things at superpower HQ systems, to DELIBERATELY AVOID having a powerplay effect beneficial for that power?

PROBLEM ;

When frontier claimed to be balancing in making PP 2.0 ... each power's new mixture of benefits were meant to be balanced ;
in terms of IMPACTING-on PP, not just INconsistently IMbalanced to partially benefit it but also-partially only provide monetary reward ;

ex
power1 100% of the power's BGS impact & bonuses from rank affect powerplay in-game

power2 80% of the power's bonuses from rank & BGS impacts affect powerplay in-game
power2 20% of the power's bonuses from rank only-provide money bonuses.

When the HQ systems were created, and their PP slider was LOCKED on 100%,
although logically making players handing in PP things there having no effect on-that 100% made sense,

it ALSO opened up the possibility of players especially 5C players, being able to get rank by handing in things ONLY at the power's HQ system, having no beneficial effect for the power,

but ATTAINING BGS factional-influence-impact advantages, or other BGS advantages, as-THOUGH a true/loyal player.

Frontier made it clear that they wanted to reduce if not eliminate? the effect of 5C players,
and although there is no direct-negative effect like deliberately bad CC expansions in PP 1.0,
so thumbs up for listening ppl! ...

... there is still a BGS effect, which does INdirectly affect players attractions-TO powers in psychological / other ways, as well as incentives / disincentives emotionally, for especially PMFs, finding themselves under 5C attack, from interfering external PP participating players exploiting having been able to GET high rank within a local power, and use LOCAL BONUSES, against the wishes of the local power.

i.e. BGS / factional bullying,.. will STILL occur, from the stronger powers, and as a very experienced BGS defender player for a power, i think i'm making a fair guess in guessing that it is already happening.

---

Possible solution / reductor ;

-1- KEEP the locked power HQ effect, BUT ;

-2- have handing in powerplay things there,.. INdirectly boost other strongholds, or fortified? fortified & explioted? systems.

perhaps at a reasonable penalty (-10% as much? ),
and of course DIVIDED by how many systems it gets watered-down amongst,
but there, nevertheless.

So say 50 5C players deliberately hand-in supplies(fortification equivalent) at a power's HQ ... totalling 20,000 tons handed in.
And, that the same power, has 15 strongholds,

if it was to be divided up amongst just-those 15,

20,000 / 100 * 90 = 18000,
18000 / 15 = 1200

Each stronghold gets 1200 as-though delivered to each directly.

Simple!

---

Same with exploration data, biological data,.. etc etc

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'm not seeing what damage the 5C players would be having, especially since the majority of weekly tasks push the player outside the stronghold systems. Since there's no penalty for their actions affecting powerplay, they can hand in what they want.

As for the effects on controlling factions, it's been made pretty clear by their actions that FDev have stopped caring about that.

 

[Vurrath]

Saying that you've "separated" factions from powerplay, just-because of removing the triggers/faction-gov-type system, is OVERstating factional influence, basically. I fundamentally disagree about whether or not FDev. simply HAVE, succeeded at separating the two as MUCH, as they say they have, in terms of the common myth / working assumption that they they have.

for instance, If a new player or local PMF sees that their local neighbourhood is highly dominated by a superpower, with loyalist factions all around them, but they're not, they are not likely to as a faction, encourage or perhaps even tolerate their members joining a GP OTHER THAN, one also loyal to the one surrounding them.

simple example, there are many more. The careless PMF leader might stumble into whatever indirect politics of GPs without doing some reading/research, but that is not all of them, IMExp,.. MOST are not that heedless / careless with their especially local relationships with other groups, GPs or otherwise.

 

[Vurrath]

I'm not seeing what damage the 5C players would be having, especially since the majority of weekly tasks push the player outside the stronghold systems. Since there's no penalty for their actions affecting powerplay, they can hand in what they want.

As for the effects on controlling factions, it's been made pretty clear by their actions that FDev have stopped caring about that.

so to say that there's no penalty for their actions, they can hand in what they want, is true, but powers that would OTHERWISE be getting a indirect benefit from not having that 20% or however much indirect benefit, if their perks were 100% indirectly beneficial TOWARDS things in-game, my numbers are off,.. however much,.. are GETTING less indirect.

There was no debate, no approval, of which perks in PP2.0, were going to come-down from FDev,.. so there is no reason why the playerbase should accept the choices made, without thought or scrutiny.

 

[Vurrath]

What does it matter?

Someone joins your power and does their stuff in a way that intentionally doesn’t do anything positive to your power, but also doesn’t do anything negative. Seems a pretty pointless fifth column action to me.

I mean, if they’re busy hiding in your power having no negative effect, at least they’re not pledged to another power activity working against you.

Clarification,..

i'm not saying there are some who 'then do nothing' ... i'm saying there are those that will get to a rank where you get something like +15% factional influence ...

and then screw around AGAINST the local GP, while PLEDGED,.. to that power.

ex ;

So say i was a Empire insider/spy inside the federation,
if a federation GP had a level 20 perk, for +10% factional influence,

you could get to level 20 quickly AND-withOUT benefitting the local power,
by handing stuff into the HQ,

and-THEN go around screwing around in the any federation space, screwing with the federation's factions,
AT +10%...

... withOUT, having at least directly added to the powerplay in getting to rank 20 in the first place.

---

PP 1.0 was described as worse, in that you could do that,

but act-against a power by doing things like 5C counter-productive prepping,

with 2.0 ... although the negative indirect (against factions) is not as direct AS bad prepping,

it's still a negative, it's still WORK for the victim power to have to correct / work against,

so the game is STILL PRONE to bullying,
via the cheat / hack,

with the power getting no trade-off, at least, from the person having to GET TO level 20.



if I remember correctly, INAMONGST the advantages of 2.0,
was a kind of assurance, or plan for a RELIABLE system,

for the power to benefit, SHOULD a 5C try to get to rank that otherwise, only genuine players would.

i.e. that the new ranking system, SHOULD have a lot of integrity compared to PP 1.0.



So basically, for ALL powers that have indirect perks that can be used-AGAINST the local power,
there is nothing stopping players from getting to whatever rank they WANT... all the way up to 100+,

which is MEANT FOR truly loyal PP players,

withOUT at least benefitting the local power they're supposed to be pledged to by getting there!



i.e. that's the EXACT opposite, of what PP 2.0 was supposed to be stopping!

I concede it's not as-bad as snipe-hand ins and bad prepping from 1.0 ,
but it's still there.






---

My idea or something similar to it,
would mean that at least the local power being 'visited' by non-genuine pledges,

would INdirectly get something from what they hand in at the local HQ.

it would plug-the-leak, so to speak, so that there is NO-where,.. where ... a 5Cer can get inside, without benefitting the local power GETTING there (getting to whichever rank they're aiming for).



IN OTHER WORDS ;

as-is ... ATM, there IS somewhere,.. where 5Cers can still GO ... to not-benefit whichever victim GP they're targeting, to deliberately not-benefit that power, in order to get to a target rank, to simultaneosuly avoid the by-product advantage their victim power would NORMALLY get,.. if they got their rank somewhere else.

i.e. what's the POINT of the 'coverage' of the REST of that victim power's space being someWHERE,.. where,.. that power WOULD get indirect benefit from the penalty aimed for 5Cers ...

...if 5Cers simply hand everything into the HQ?
(and likely also then goto the LOCAL system they were wanting to screw around in - in other words PP2.0 5Cers can get a OTHERWISE true pledge rank, withOUT any indirect benefit to that victim power,.. and then USE the perks meant for genuine pledges... at the LOCAL, interfering with LOCAL PMF and SMALL PLAYER GROUP interests ... i.e. unhappy small player groups LEAVING ED? getting sick of bullying from superpowers or GPs in general? )
( i.e. the very thing that FDev said they wanted to do something about? )

Simple.

 

[Nowski]

You can't get merits by handing in or doing powerplay activities in HQ systems, right? Not sure how this is going to get rank. Can you get merits by completing assignments there? Even so, this would be quite slow I think.

 

[Vurrath]

Basically, the pretense that GPs will not be interested in faction-types "anymore" , was a lie.

FDev knew that powers would still be interested,.. just LESS than before.
. thumbs up for reducing it, but the WAY they have, has been crude / very disruptive for PP players, and this blatant hole in the dam or wall, at HQs themselves, needs to be fixed, in order for it to work.

(and i say that as a player that pushes GP agendas HARD, against small PMFs! inside Utopia, not ever, as a 5C player. )

 

[Vurrath]

You can't get merits by handing in or doing powerplay activities in HQ systems, right? Not sure how this is going to get rank. Can you get merits by completing assignments there? Even so, this would be quite slow I think.

mmm, pertty sure you can. The slider not moving from being locked, does not preclude it, and i think when i was doing some fortifying a few days ago and then changed my plans and shifted over to doing something else, going to Sol i think with Cocijo... i handed in the fort supplies i was going to AT polevnic, and got the MERITS, anyway.
they were FROM another stronghold?

i'll double check... hang on...

hope you're right!

 

[Vurrath]

it might've been on-foot odyssey stuff, powerplay container stuff... something. noticed it and didn't realize until later, that 5Cers could exploit that.... exploration data / biological data? bounties? trade? something.

 

[Nowski]

No, I really don't think you can. Unless maybe for completing an assignment?

 

[Vurrath]

Ah! i remember... at least, yesterday,.. yeah,.. when handing in exploration data / bio data ... you'll get a MONEY reward bonus, unique to-THAT power, anywhere where you're handing it in ... within that power.

 

[Nowski]

Yeah, perks will apply since it's the Power's system, but pretty sure you're not going to rank up by doing stuff in HQ systems, unless maybe the assignments thing (but I doubt that also)

 

[Vurrath]

sorry, i think i mentioned very early in my description ... at-least monetary?

so say a exploration group wants to MAX out their exploration data, they can carrrier jump around, return to the LYR HQ,
get a what +15% ? +30%? benefit,.. but-NOT affect the power in an indirect way,.. that the power SHOULD be getting, by that player having EARNT that rank.

 

[Nowski]

Pfft.

 

[Vurrath]

no no DOING STUFF in. handing in exploration data / bio data... at least.

my apologies for being uncertain about other powerplay activities.
it's the FINANCIAL INCENTIVE ... to get rank BEFORE handing in either data.

players can exploit the bonuses, without having to benefit the power that's paying them..... HOW ... but also with a risk of 5Cers wanting to do BOTH, with the factional influence risk as well.

 

[Vurrath]

Pfft.

mmm might sound minor,.. but imagine your group has deliberately PLANNED maximum $$$$ returns, and taken several weeks jumping about the other side of the galaxy,.. they're going to appreciate whatever tricks and tips they get.

this one is one where someone can do that, rip off a local power,

and as i said at the start,

for that power,
who might-otherwise have perks which are equally indirectly beneficial for themselves in the BGS,

then get less, than the powers whose perks ... are.

so yeah it's minor, but it's there.


Who knows!

perhaps people visiting in my case, Utopia for bio, and LYR/Sirius for exploration data,
will enjoy their time there, and become true pledges!



but it'd be there.
my / this idea, would 'plug-the-hole' in the dam, so to speak.

 

[Vurrath]

yeah look i hope i'm wrong, but even only as a backup mechanism,
and perhaps this would be a good idea going-forward with the system's development,
you could at least get it done, and then any multiplier risk with bugs / things not working the way they should,.. would be there in the future, would be there in-place,.. should people end up getting merits at HQs when they shouldn't be ... it would be there as a backup?

not-that i'm conceding the point yet....

OK, just handed in fortification supplies at Polevnic... it SAID it would have a merit impact, but when i actually handed them in, yeah OK, no merits-awarded popup,

so hopefully you're 1/2? 3/4? right,.. but what about bio-data / for LYR, exploration data?

or other powers' financial perks' incentives?
they'd still encourage highER rank in that power, or pledging-TO that power,
and then be a combinant-risk in terms of 5Cers getting away with both at the same time.

---

do ppl see +15% or something, in the hand-in screens,
in universal catographics?

when it shows you a summary-just-BEFORE you hand in?

 

[Agent-137]

Also no powers have PMF influence gain perks. Antal’s perk is for reputation.

Fdev did a good job making 5C truly ineffective. The worst someone can do now is false flagging undermining. And the 2nd worst is simply wasting merits in some maxed stronghold.

Indeed, fdev did a mediocre job of separating PP and BGS. But at least we don’t have to fight over the stupid ethos based government types anymore. It’s nice to be able to do power play most of the time instead of BGS.

 

[Vurrath]

being able to PROGRESS in trust in a particular faction,.. VIA increased influence, does speed up how quickly residual ex- 5Cers or other ingenuine players can push OPPOSITIONAL factions, via greater efficiency in terms of how quickly one can get more 5+ influence missions,.. AFTER getting higher rank, so yes it still does.

 

[Vurrath]

Although that might be able to be described as a lot to do for-ONE, that is not what i mean, i do not mean that individual insiders/5C players are gaining huge rank for minor influence boosts,.. for ONE faction,.. and then spending weeks getting up rank in another power and doing the same, one targeted faction at-a-time ... i'm saying for LEFT IN PLACE agents, like spies in RL,.. it's something a indefinately deployed one, can continue to get benefit from, while continuing to be deployed TO A SINGLE power,..

... and-so the risk of those that do,.. also getting TO higher rank without the merits they earn to get there,.. does not contribute to that power while they're getting there.

after they get higher rank, and can influence more by getting the better missions VIA reputation,.. they simply move on from faction to faction WITHIN the power they're semi-/permanently assigned to, and use their PP-rank, to GET advantage like a genuine player should.

There is no reason not to consider that a real risk, when it comes to organized 5C or insider utilization,.. spies KEPT on-location, where they're already familiar, is a real world practice,.. why should that principle NOT-exist in ED?