New exploration needs some streamlining

[Spacecat]

Ok, my ship's currently floating about 2/3 of the way to Sag A and it's been there for 3 weeks, and I can't decide whether to go forward or back because I got bored and took a break. But I have tried out the new explo quite a bit and have some thoughts on it. While I like some aspects of it, others are too overdone, mainly the surface scanning. It actually takes quite a while to play "sit and spin" and scan each new system for signal sources. That should be enough. Targeting and tuning a body, then zooming in on it should be enough to get the surface data and any points of interest on it. The whole "fly all the freak'n way to a planet and fire probes at it's face" thing is actually pretty cool and fun for like, the first dozen times, but then becomes extremely repetitive, time consuming and boring. Even today, we don't have to physically fly all the Mercury to get a gist of what it has going on (not much). The surface scan should just work automatically once you zoom in when in analysis mode. Also, the "confirmed by" seems like a superfluous "participation trophy"and isn't needed. Remember, there's ten bazillion star systems. Does FD really expect somebody to fly to every planet in each of them? Twice? I just find it a bit overdone and think a better balance could be found. Discuss.

 

[Wendake]

I found it logical and perfect as it is...and way more efficent - fun than the old mechanics.

I'm not sure I get your point actually...you're not obligated to go to each body to surface scan them...you'll only go scan if you want to collect mats - see the POI...so if you had to go to the POI you had to SC to the body anyway to land on it so the surface scan is only a 10 sec step to get all the info you need which is logical since you have to exactly pin point where the POIs are...you could not do it simply with some frequency tuning...we've sent Voyager 1 & 2 so they could fly near stellar bodies to gather more information, we sent robots on Mars to gather more information...we can't do that all from Earth unfortunately...we didn,t even knew what was on the dark side of the moon until recently...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The only redeeming feature of Exploration 3.3 is that you have to fly to the planet to surface scan it. I bought ED to fly a pretend spaceship, not play with a pretend telescope.

 

[khaos526]

Well there's really no need at all to fly to every planet to scan it. I personally rarely scan a planet unless it's an ELW or terriformable (ww or other) and usually Ammonia if it's not too far. Even regular WW that are far enough away I skip. The only other things I might check out and scan are if there is biologicals on the planet, rarely even geological formations unless I really feel like it.

So those out scanning every single thing, it will get tedious and it will take a long time to go some distance, but really, a lot of people have realized, it's not worth it to map every single planet. In fact a lot of us, don't even bother FSS scanning entire systems anymore. Makes getting around the galaxy faster and now with the new system, more interesting sites to focus on instead via Codex discoveries.

Hell I used to hard core explore before Neutron Star jumping were a thing and they were just pin pricks. There's far more to see now than there used to be out there...

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Ok, my ship's currently floating about 2/3 of the way to Sag A and it's been there for 3 weeks, and I can't decide whether to go forward or back because I got bored and took a break. But I have tried out the new explo quite a bit and have some thoughts on it. While I like some aspects of it, others are too overdone, mainly the surface scanning. It actually takes quite a while to play "sit and spin" and scan each new system for signal sources. That should be enough. Targeting and tuning a body, then zooming in on it should be enough to get the surface data and any points of interest on it. The whole "fly all the freak'n way to a planet and fire probes at it's face" thing is actually pretty cool and fun for like, the first dozen times, but then becomes extremely repetitive, time consuming and boring. Even today, we don't have to physically fly all the Mercury to get a gist of what it has going on (not much). The surface scan should just work automatically once you zoom in when in analysis mode. Also, the "confirmed by" seems like a superfluous "participation trophy"and isn't needed. Remember, there's ten bazillion star systems. Does FD really expect somebody to fly to every planet in each of them? Twice? I just find it a bit overdone and think a better balance could be found. Discuss.

I never predicted anything like this.

 

[krylite]

Interesting your concern is more about the DSS than the FSS, Spacecat. Are you trying to map every body in a system? I wonder if it may be too late for the new DSS scanning to include aspects of the old system of approaching a planet and resolving it within 10 Ls. Since now static POI's seem to be incorporated into the probe mapping mechanic where in the old system some of them didn't show up from the old dss. That said, yes maybe streamline to shave some seconds off such as making the "probes" work twice as fast or faster. Also I'd like to see some streamlining of the FSS with "snap-in" movements with the frequency tuner, and then an optional toggle-on auto pan-scan in a pattern when looking for stray blob usually not on the plane lines, which could stop moving when blob is found. FSS (which could use a little time-saving streamlining, just a bit) now feels right to me in place of the old instant placeholder honk, fits more into lore and sci-fi reasoning.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;Svk0YIbti24]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svk0YIbti24&index=26&list=PLN-ipmLFTJWIlbhjUTa-KJBRx0sBCeDR_&t=0s[/video]

 

[Blackcompany]

The only redeeming feature of Exploration 3.3 is that you have to fly to the planet to surface scan it. I bought ED to fly a pretend spaceship, not play with a pretend telescope.

Exactly this.

I cannot Express in words how terrible the FSS is. The only thing it accomplished was saving me the drive space Elite once occupied.

 

[Tarman]

I never predicted anything like this.

*hands napkin

Got some gloat on your chin there, tiger.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Interesting your concern is more about the DSS than the FSS, Spacecat. Are you trying to map every body in a system? I wonder if it may be too late for the new DSS scanning to include aspects of the old system of approaching a planet and resolving it within 10 Ls. Since now static POI's seem to be incorporated into the probe mapping mechanic where in the old system some of them didn't show up from the old dss. That said, yes maybe streamline to shave some seconds off such as making the "probes" work twice as fast or faster. Also I'd like to see some streamlining of the FSS with "snap-in" movements with the frequency tuner, and then an optional toggle-on auto pan-scan in a pattern when looking for stray blob usually not on the plane lines, which could stop moving when blob is found. FSS (which could use a little time-saving streamlining, just a bit) now feels right to me in place of the old instant placeholder honk, fits more into lore and sci-fi reasoning.

They could streamline the FSS so it automatically locates all the planets in a system and records them in the System Map.

Then they could make the DSS resolve the planetary composition when you fly close to the body. The size of the body would determine how close you need to be in order for it to start scanning.

That would be awesome.

 

[Blackcompany]

They could streamline the FSS so it automatically locates all the planets in a system and records them in the System Map.

Then they could make the DSS resolve the planetary composition when you fly close to the body. The size of the body would determine how close you need to be in order for it to start scanning.

That would be awesome.

Or they could make it so the Honk reveals all bodies. No exploration credit or rewards. Just show the bodies. Then we could fly out to them and explore...or not.

Just...scrap the garbage FSS.

 

[Tel Prydain]

It actually takes quite a while to play "sit and spin" and scan each new system for signal sources.

Compared to what? That "sit and spin" scan is the exact same as the old "fly up and poke your nose at it" scan. Only 3000% faster.
It's important to note the mapping is a third layer of exploration - a simple "sit and spin" is all that's needed to tag/claim a planet.

. The whole "fly all the freak'n way to a planet and fire probes at it's face" thing is actually pretty cool and fun for like, the first dozen times, but then becomes extremely repetitive, time consuming and boring. Even today, we don't have to physically fly all the Mercury to get a gist of what it has going on (not much).

Your prayers are answered - because the sit and spin is all that's needed to get the gist of a planet now! The mapping is only needed if you, you know, want to map it.
As a rule you'd normally only map AW/WW/ELW and landable planets that have geological/biological signals you want to visit.

The surface scan should just work automatically once you zoom in when in analysis mode. Also, the "confirmed by" seems like a superfluous "participation trophy"and isn't needed. Remember, there's ten bazillion star systems. Does FD really expect somebody to fly to every planet in each of them? Twice? I just find it a bit overdone and think a better balance could be found. Discuss.

Err... you know that's just a check list for you, right? Like now if someone finds something interesting you don't need reddit to show you. You use the codex to point the way and it's marked 'confirmed' once you've seen it. It makes exploration more fun because you can say, "I wonder if anyone has seen any of those cool floating crystal spike clouds near me?", then crack open the codex to find out.

 

[Stealthie]

Funny how the same criticisms keep coming up, innit?

The DSS doesn't take much flak because it's a new thing that allows you to do new stuff.

The FSS, OTOH, is just extra busy-work to achieve the same stuff we could already do.
Who could have possibly guessed that a lot of people wouldn't find that fun after several hundred goes?!

Should've kept the core functionality of the old disco-scanner to establish the basic sysmap and then allowed the player enter the FSS properly to do stuff like detect USSs and get all the in-depth data about each planet.

 

[Micha]

Overall I find the new exploration mechanics to be more logical and immersive than the old. Initial "honk" gives you an indication of what's in a system. FSS gives you a reasonably (in fact it can be argued a bit too much) detailed picture of each planet. The Surface Probes then give you the remaining details and location of any POIs (again, it really should give search location, not precise spot). Finally, landing and scanning gives you details on the POIs themselves.

But I only fly up and map planets that I find interesting; that may be because they hint at unique geography, or they have interesting orbital mechanics with nearby bodies, or I'm working on ticking off my Codex entries for that sector.

I do agree that the new mechanics still require quite a bit of tweaking and streamlining though.

The FSS and DSS need to either be cockpit popups more similar to the station menus than the full-screen overlays they currently are to allow for situational awareness, or they need to be usable from normal space. The "honk" should display the frequency graph on the HUD to allow "skim exploration".
There's also heaps of tweaks needed inside the FSS scanning UI itself - far too many unnecessary (as in, info is duplicated) UI-delaying popups which, half the time, cover up the more essential information. Resolving the signals on a body is too slow for Geological POIs - better to just indicate what type of POI is on each planet and leave the detailed resolving for the Surface Probes. It's a bit naff that some of the interface elements "zoom" in and out with the display too; they should remain static.

But ultimately it's a huge step in the right direction. Speaking as someone who's scanned every system he's travelled through on DW2 so far, and mapped quite a number of bodies as well.

 

[Bayaz]

Oh look it's me with my differing opinions again - I actually quite enjoy using the FSS and the new mechanic...

Drop into system, DSS, check system map to see if it's been previously discovered, if so move on, if not hit 0% throttle and open up the FSS, check the wavelengths for anything worthwhile, if not, move on, if so, begin the zoom and move around game, if a worthwhile planet or body to probe, finish mapping out with the FSS and proceed to probe...

It's not that bad actually. It's an ostensibly forensic minigame. I did a 12k LY roundtrip to unlock Palin and checked out almost every system I went through, and now I've got about 50 with my name all over them - especially all over the valuable planets - whereas I remember the DSS just after beta and didn't like that mechanic at all

 

[Franc Kaos]

My one wish is don't scan for how many geological features are present on a planet (watch the scanning reticule spin for 20 seconds), just that there are geological or human or alien POIs on the planet, then it's your choice as to whether explore further on a planet.

Plus, the only reason I'll surface scan is if there's something of interest down there or no one has yet mapped it (and even then only if I can be bothered).

Oh and I wish Fdev would seed the galaxy with more different things (and when picking up rocks on the surface ditch the stupid requirement to target the darn things to scoop them).

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Before the big changes to the exploration mechanic, I have to admit I was kind of dreading them. So many saying that the game was done for them now, noted explorers hanging up their hats, bidding farewell. Now I have got used to the FSS I realize I was worrying about nothing. Because as many others have said, it rocks! It is just so much better, so much more flexible, so much more powerful than the old system. Those who complain about having to learn how to use it, who just think it's somehow more satisfying to fly in, one honk, then suddenly all bodies are revealed... well, I don't get that. The FSS gives (imo) a much more believable, more sci-fi credible way of obtaining astronomical data.

 

[gooddoc]

Well I'm fine with the new mechanics OP. It suits my style of exploration well, allowing me to get more information out of a system in a shorter time than I did under the old method, so I can move through the Galaxy a lot quicker than before.
I would ignore the Ice/Rock worlds under the old method, I felt that the value of these world's weren't worth the credits paid for the data, given the length of time needed to travel to them. Now it's quick & easy to scan the whole system by playing the 'telescope' mini-game, from the System entry point - which btw, doesn't bother me.

As for the DSS, I only look to scan ELW/WW/Amm worlds & even then they have to be undiscovered & not too far away - no more traveling 100's of thousand LS's for me now.

As for the 'sites', I'v never really been that much into them since they were introduced, so unless I'm on a specific quest to hunt out particular one's, then I leave that bit alone. That being said, it's still far easier now to find find stuff than the old 'upside down over a planet using Mk1 eyeballs' method.

The disappointment to me is the Codex. I'm on the DWE2 expedition & it was my intention to try & get all the 'types' in each Sector as we passed through them. I don't know why, but I quickly got bored with that & now I'm not looking for anything, if I stumble into something that's added to the Codex then good, if not then meh!

Maybe it's because when you leave a Sector, then look back in the Codex, to compare with a current Sector, that information isn't there anymore until you re-enter that Sector again, maybe that's part of it.
But for me it's grown old, along with the 'orrery' I very seldomly use these now.

It's each to their own I suppose, if it doesn't suit your style of Exploration then it must be a downer.

 

[Micha]

... ditch the stupid requirement to target the darn things to scoop them).

THIS! And when scooping in space as well. I just want to scoop it all!

 

[Florenus]

Compared to what? That "sit and spin" scan is the exact same as the old "fly up and poke your nose at it" scan. Only 3000% faster.
It's important to note the mapping is a third layer of exploration - a simple "sit and spin" is all that's needed to tag/claim a planet.




Your prayers are answered - because the sit and spin is all that's needed to get the gist of a planet now! The mapping is only needed if you, you know, want to map it.
As a rule you'd normally only map AW/WW/ELW and landable planets that have geological/biological signals you want to visit.




Err... you know that's just a check list for you, right? Like now if someone finds something interesting you don't need reddit to show you. You use the codex to point the way and it's marked 'confirmed' once you've seen it. It makes exploration more fun because you can say, "I wonder if anyone has seen any of those cool floating crystal spike clouds near me?", then crack open the codex to find out.

This guy gets it.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

I think I get your point and I partially agree.

The problem is not the exploration tool itself.

The problem is the trip to each planet. Supercruise is long and boring. This part of the game needs some drastic improvement.