New FSD jump system idea.

[The only Ichi]

Now I haven't been playing ED for sometime(just kind of got burnt after having everything and engineered as well) but I've been playing other games(some space) and I thought of something.

Now I don't know if this was ever brought before or it used to be like this but I thought maybe putting it out there. Might get some ideas. For the most part explorers don't mind jumping system to system for well "exploration". Neither did I when I was exploring. Yet when I wanted to go to 17 draconis to do the CZ's to make credits a good combat way. I hated taken that same route over an over again. Same thing with some of my old bounty hunting grounds. I thought it would be nice to get to those areas quicker. Well here is an idea...

Two types of FSD modules:

1.) The basic one that we use today. Which is good for exploration or short range destinations.

2.) (This is where it could get tricky) A long range FSD jump drive. Something to travel 50, 75 or 100 plus light years. To get to long distance areas or points such as CZ or local CG or whatever your needs may be.

Now I am talking jump 1000 or 10000 light years to go half way across the galaxy. All though lets face it...that would be pretty AWESOME! but to get back on point. Just a little extra distance to break the tedious-ness just a little for none explorers, traders or whatever.

Now I know there would be downsides to this but just would like to hear opinions from everyone. I would like all good or bad thoughts on it.

Like I said before. If this was brought up in the past I apologize and may have missed it.

CMDR The only Ichi - o7

 

[Volimar]

Prepare to be buried in poo posts.

I imagine we'll be getting increased FSD range once we start incorporating Thargoid technology into our ships. Not too much of an increase but even that will get whined down.

 

[ebbrell]

I think U are right, they have long range tech.. I'm sure we will end up... finding stuff to build something or and engineer will have a mod

 

[Kerrash]

Doing anything to modify viable jump ranges for the player base is just one subtle variable in a very difficult balance.

 

[CMDR-AD]

Regarding the tedium of jump travel, and how it's a non-interactive time, I have thought about this a good bit, often during jumps.

1. Jumps made from anywhere outside the Nav Beacon work *exactly* as at present.

2. Jumps made from a Nav Beacon would be an interactive "Route Tunnel" jump. The initial jump into the hyperspace tunnel is identical, but we get a new HUD displaying the fuel (much the same as the Fuel Scoop shows), a linear depiction of our progress through the current leg of the Route Tunnel (sort of like the fuel scoop progress bar), and indications (via the "Escape Vector" target) which allow the CMDR to steer their ship to either stay in the Tunnel for the next leg of the route (or the final drop point), or steer out of the Tunnel and drop at the next star along the route.

All drops are to normal space, at the Nav Beacon of the system.

Then, to further the interactive aspect of the tunnel, the CMDR's piloting within the tunnel would determine how long traversing the Route Tunnel will take. By more accurately tracking the Vector Target and working the throttle during "turns" within the Tunnel (anticipating turns and maximizing speed by keeping the throttle in the mid-zone, and then max throttle as much as possible), the time spent in the tunnel could be halved.

Something like this would help add meaning to using "Economical" route plotting, resulting in a longer Tunnel, but still faster than jump-jump style travel, when the CMDR has flown well. And FSD range still functions the same. A longer jumping ship would pass fewer "off ramps" during the Route Tunnel, when plotting with "Longest Distance" mode.

This system could save immense amounts of time and trouble for CMDRs who are traveling, while not cheapening the sense of scale within the galaxy as a whole, since Route Tunnels are only functional within the Bubble from and to a Nav Beacon that is within the CMDR's ship jump range. Out in the black, there are no Nav Beacons so it's all jump-jump travel. So it couldn't be used to reach Colonia.

Other game assets that are enhanced with this. Ships with large fuel tanks can make the most by offering very long one-shot Route Tunnels, without all the stop/start tedium. On the downside, there is no fuel scooping in the Route Tunnel, so plot to include stops for either scooping or refueling stations. Another downside would be if the CMDR was afk in the Route Tunnel, and the Vector Target happened into an exit at a star point along the way, and the CMDR fails to steer away, well they'll drop at the Nav Beacon for that star. So no hands-off autopilot end-to-end.

Anyway, something like that would be welcome, for me. Breaking the start/stop monotony, letting me learn some skills to play it well for a reward of faster transit, while still having some downsides and limits.

 

[Drelthar]

2. Jumps made from a Nav Beacon would be an interactive "Route Tunnel" jump.

Nice.

 

[Vasious]

Regarding the tedium of jump travel, and how it's a non-interactive time, I have thought about this a good bit, often during jumps.

1. Jumps made from anywhere outside the Nav Beacon work *exactly* as at present.

2. Jumps made from a Nav Beacon would be an interactive "Route Tunnel" jump. The initial jump into the hyperspace tunnel is identical, but we get a new HUD displaying the fuel (much the same as the Fuel Scoop shows), a linear depiction of our progress through the current leg of the Route Tunnel (sort of like the fuel scoop progress bar), and indications (via the "Escape Vector" target) which allow the CMDR to steer their ship to either stay in the Tunnel for the next leg of the route (or the final drop point), or steer out of the Tunnel and drop at the next star along the route.

All drops are to normal space, at the Nav Beacon of the system.

Then, to further the interactive aspect of the tunnel, the CMDR's piloting within the tunnel would determine how long traversing the Route Tunnel will take. By more accurately tracking the Vector Target and working the throttle during "turns" within the Tunnel (anticipating turns and maximizing speed by keeping the throttle in the mid-zone, and then max throttle as much as possible), the time spent in the tunnel could be halved.

Something like this would help add meaning to using "Economical" route plotting, resulting in a longer Tunnel, but still faster than jump-jump style travel, when the CMDR has flown well. And FSD range still functions the same. A longer jumping ship would pass fewer "off ramps" during the Route Tunnel, when plotting with "Longest Distance" mode.

This system could save immense amounts of time and trouble for CMDRs who are traveling, while not cheapening the sense of scale within the galaxy as a whole, since Route Tunnels are only functional within the Bubble from and to a Nav Beacon that is within the CMDR's ship jump range. Out in the black, there are no Nav Beacons so it's all jump-jump travel. So it couldn't be used to reach Colonia.

Other game assets that are enhanced with this. Ships with large fuel tanks can make the most by offering very long one-shot Route Tunnels, without all the stop/start tedium. On the downside, there is no fuel scooping in the Route Tunnel, so plot to include stops for either scooping or refueling stations. Another downside would be if the CMDR was afk in the Route Tunnel, and the Vector Target happened into an exit at a star point along the way, and the CMDR fails to steer away, well they'll drop at the Nav Beacon for that star. So no hands-off autopilot end-to-end.

Anyway, something like that would be welcome, for me. Breaking the start/stop monotony, letting me learn some skills to play it well for a reward of faster transit, while still having some downsides and limits.

Kinda of like a jump into witch space, the navigating the route following the beacons, to arrive at the destination as described in the Dark Wheel novella

I like this

 

[CMDR-AD]

Kinda of like a jump into witch space, the navigating the route following the beacons, to arrive at the destination as described in the Dark Wheel novella

I like this

Yes, the Dark Wheel was on my mind when imagining that system, and how the Elite game mechanics could be made emulate it.

 

[andrewg_oz]

No.

There are some players who enjoy long distance travel. They like and are willing to put in the effort required to go to distant places.

Ever since Elite was released, that gameplay has been steadily eroded. First by material boosts, then by engineered boosts, then by neutron/white dwarf boosts. That is gameplay those players have lost and are never going to get back.

Even after all these boosts, it is clear there are still people who aren't satisfied, who will probably never be satisfied, until travel is reduced to a "click here to arrive at your destination" button.

If you don't like traveling long distances then don't! There are so many places in the bubble that are just minutes away.

There is nothing forcing you to travel long distances, but please stop taking away that gameplay from those who do like it.

 

[thirstyfish]

This isn't likely. Suggestions like this have come up before. Space is big, and that general sense of massive scale isn't something you want to be removing from a space game. Sure engineers, mats, and neutron stars have allowed us to jump further, but as it stands, it takes a whole lot of planning to get a conda to jump ~227 ly, the longest jump distance I have heard of. It takes insane engineer rolls, some really rare mats for jumponium, and you need to properly use a neutron star. And neutron stars aren't just found anywhere. There is the neutron highway to colonia, but that is about it, and even those boosts come at a cost. Oh, and you have to be on about 1/3 of a tank of fuel, which you would need to burn off.

Neutron stars damage your FSD, Engineers take a lot of time, and mats can be hard to find. While you can get some insane jump ranges, it isn't readily available to just anyone.

 

[Nero Tacitus]

I had an idea a while ago (not to thread steal, but this seems better than starting a new thread along the same lines for an idea I doubt will ever be implimented) to create a jump assist network for the Thargoids.

FDev could create a joint initiative by the Fed / Alli / Empire to develop a series of jump gates which allow ships to travel from one gate to another in a single jump, improving our (and the powers') ability to defend the bubble from the Thargoids. The tech would be something along the lines of incresing jump distance requiring A) increasing fuel/power and B) increasingly difficult calculations, which would be alleviated by a system of interconnected gates which A) power themselves, removing the fuel requirement from the ship and B) have static locations and a dedicated station to perform the calculations. The gates could be errected in the HQ of each power, or in other high priority systems, restricting our movement to intrabubble. This would preserve exploration, while removing some of the tedium of getting around the bubble.

My main concern with the idea was griefing and the impact on long-range trading. Obviously scrubs will be tempted to set up shop at high traffic gates and gank people as they exit. This could possibly be solved by an NPC defense force which engages any pilot who opens fire near the gate, but then you'd probably have wings of people taking over gates ala Kazzak in Stormwind, so, still a headache for FDev. You could solve the long-range trading issue by preventing players with haulage from entering the gates, but then that kind of clashes with lore (the powers would obviously want us doing missions through the gates).

My 2 cents.

 

[Hydrino]

Regarding the tedium of jump travel, and how it's a non-interactive time, I have thought about this a good bit, often during jumps.

1. Jumps made from anywhere outside the Nav Beacon work *exactly* as at present.

2. Jumps made from a Nav Beacon would be an interactive "Route Tunnel" jump. The initial jump into the hyperspace tunnel is identical, but we get a new HUD displaying the fuel (much the same as the Fuel Scoop shows), a linear depiction of our progress through the current leg of the Route Tunnel (sort of like the fuel scoop progress bar), and indications (via the "Escape Vector" target) which allow the CMDR to steer their ship to either stay in the Tunnel for the next leg of the route (or the final drop point), or steer out of the Tunnel and drop at the next star along the route.

All drops are to normal space, at the Nav Beacon of the system.

Then, to further the interactive aspect of the tunnel, the CMDR's piloting within the tunnel would determine how long traversing the Route Tunnel will take. By more accurately tracking the Vector Target and working the throttle during "turns" within the Tunnel (anticipating turns and maximizing speed by keeping the throttle in the mid-zone, and then max throttle as much as possible), the time spent in the tunnel could be halved.

Something like this would help add meaning to using "Economical" route plotting, resulting in a longer Tunnel, but still faster than jump-jump style travel, when the CMDR has flown well. And FSD range still functions the same. A longer jumping ship would pass fewer "off ramps" during the Route Tunnel, when plotting with "Longest Distance" mode.

This system could save immense amounts of time and trouble for CMDRs who are traveling, while not cheapening the sense of scale within the galaxy as a whole, since Route Tunnels are only functional within the Bubble from and to a Nav Beacon that is within the CMDR's ship jump range. Out in the black, there are no Nav Beacons so it's all jump-jump travel. So it couldn't be used to reach Colonia.

Other game assets that are enhanced with this. Ships with large fuel tanks can make the most by offering very long one-shot Route Tunnels, without all the stop/start tedium. On the downside, there is no fuel scooping in the Route Tunnel, so plot to include stops for either scooping or refueling stations. Another downside would be if the CMDR was afk in the Route Tunnel, and the Vector Target happened into an exit at a star point along the way, and the CMDR fails to steer away, well they'll drop at the Nav Beacon for that star. So no hands-off autopilot end-to-end.

Anyway, something like that would be welcome, for me. Breaking the start/stop monotony, letting me learn some skills to play it well for a reward of faster transit, while still having some downsides and limits.

I like the general direction of this. Also speaks to the older games and DDF idea of mis-jumps and dark-systems, etc.

Nav Beacons provide safer jumps and ability to jump farther. Exploring to new systems without nav beacons means shorter jumps and higher risk of mis-jump/ falling out of jump in the middle of nowhere or mis-aligned, arriving on outer edge of system, etc.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

Oh, I think we had some discussions around it in the past.
The idea itself isn't that bad at all, only the mechanic isn' fleshed out yet.
My idea would not be to reinvent the wheel but to use what is known from the lore.
Around 1984 (lore: ~29th Century) we had Galactic Hyperdrives that were able to take us to the next Galaxy.... ...Map.

I can circles your suggestion around this.
A hyperdrive added in a slot. Range is dependent on size. Can be used and fittet once. Destination point uncertain.
Get your point on the map (with 2.4 up to 20kly away) and start the engine.
Based on size and class with some accuracy you might end up 100 Ly radius of your intented destination or on weaker qualites maybe 1000 ly apart.
Cost is a factor and can span ranges similar to a fuelscoop.
Power consumption, Weight and Integrity, Engineered upgrades are focused on balanced gameplay.

How about this?

Regards,
Miklos

 

[DocLooshkin]

Hello, Ichi.

We've had such suggestions in the past and I'm still not really keen. It seems like it would erode the scale of the galaxy too much, with little room to balance that with new gameplay challenges or significant risks. It could be made to work - but as it stands, I think it's just too simple and easy, with too little gameplay benefit for too much dev-time. You might want to beef the idea up a bit.

[...] Jumps made from a Nav Beacon would be an interactive "Route Tunnel" jump. [...]

Hello, CMDR-AD.

I haven't previously been keen on ideas such as this, but I find I quite like this particular variant. I definitely like the need for nav-beacons for it to work - if they need to be upgraded first, or can somehow be damaged, I can see that giving more opportunities for gameplay further down the line, along with the obvious and inevitable nav-beacons-to-Colonia CGs. If it's done right, it shouldn't hurt the game's sense of scale any more than the tube trains in GTA.

It seems a little on the easy side, as is, particularly given the bypassed potential for en route interdictions, so I would suggest a few additions:
• More hardware required - apart from fuel, there should be an additional module needed - a Secondary Hyperconduit Inducer of the same size and class as the ship's FSD;
• A minimum size of FSD, perhaps limiting this to large ships, to avoid munching the scale out of the early game;
• The different SuperCruise manoeuvring profiles of different ships should be reflected in hyperspace flight;
• Rising difficulty in 'hitting the turn' - with increased risks of failure, dropout and damage - from each additional linked jump;
• If nav-beacons can be damaged (as opposed to 'Compromised'), it could add an entertainingly twisty challenge to not crashing out with serious shipboard damage;
• As and when it all inevitably kicks off, an increased risk of Thargoid interdictions with each linked jump.

I think that sounds like good fun.

 

[coca_fr]

-1 I completly disagree with this idea.

This would make exploration completly pointless. There would be no skill and adventure to do exploration, you could simply just jump wherever you want.
Thus making FSD engineering completly a waste...

 

[Fray]

Ever since Elite was released, that gameplay has been steadily eroded. First by material boosts, then by engineered boosts, then by neutron/white dwarf boosts. That is gameplay those players have lost and are never going to get back.

How? Nothing's forcing anyone to boost, be it from mats or NS's, and similarly no one's being forced to Engineer their drives.

That is not "lost" gameplay, that is gained gameplay in terms of customisation options.

Even after all these boosts, it is clear there are still people who aren't satisfied, who will probably never be satisfied, until travel is reduced to a "click here to arrive at your destination" button.

This isn't what the OP's referring to, but this trend many seem to support of constantly compressing the scale of an entire galaxy is problematic.

Firstly, it's an entire galaxy... It should be arduous to traverse. For anyone who's been out of the bubble for long, travel within the bubble is a pitiful joke - and I mean that in a good way, because they have perspective on just how effortless it is to zip about the Sol or Colonia bubbles (even something like the Pleiades and back is pretty much a trip to the local newsagents to pick up some milk).

I'm also against anything that allows jumps straight to certain planets, for the similar reason that we already have insanely 'fast' FTL as is, and so if a journey within a system takes 15mins, deal with it - "Space is big", and Elite is partly still a simulation. If someone doesn't enjoy that, fair enough, but don't intentionally play a game that renders an entire galaxy with some sim elements being core to the experience.

There is nothing forcing you to travel long distances, but please stop taking away that gameplay from those who do like it.

Agreed, though I would support introduction/discovery of Mass Effect style mass relays or jump gates, provided there's perhaps just two or three of them spread far and wide, and that they incur either considerable material or monetary expense (e.g. needing to dedicate a module slot to a jump gate drive augmentation), plus perhaps some risk. Placing the gates far enough away from spots like Colonia or Beagle would ensure people still need to put a few thousand K travel in to get to certain areas of interest.