New hint for Aviary???

[Cocolori]

Planco got one year of free updates before there even was a paid DLC. Planco also got a big anniversary update and - believing the Planco people I interact with a lot - there were more hints, a constant buzzing and more insight to the process than there ever was with PZ. So I don't feel like we are still in a situation were we can compare these two. Things have changed and I don't see it changed for the better.

I see your point about that but would only say that the most of the free updates in the first year were mostly features that were clearly planned in to the base game (security guards being the obvious one). The really big first year update was in summer 2017. Plus Planco got a long alpha play testing period which meant there were far fewer bugs on release although you could look at it as menaing players had longer without a lot of key features (first couple of alpha builds didn't even have coasters). Now a legitimate criticism I can understand is that PZ felt rushed and should have had a longer beta and you are right that paid DLC came out much faster for PZ which suggests they have tried to get new money in a shorter development timeframe. I also suspect there probably is a smaller team for PZ and I also agree that the 'buzz' has been less. I do think that's partly inevitable though - Frontier has got bigger and is now the lead developer of a much larger number of games whereas Planco was basically their only big launch for about 2 years. I suspect the Elite Dangerous lot were resentful that the Planco community got so much attention during that time (and they had a roadmap that got delayed as well!).

I guess I just feel like, and this might be unfair, that some of the negativity is being generated by the community itself. Personally I think PZ was a more complete game than Planco was at launch (despite all the bugs) and every time they do introduce something like the coat variations people seem to be disappointed. I don't know if we have higher expectations as a community or it's something about zoos, biodiversity and animal behaviour just being harder to do because people want to see it simulate the real world when that isn't possible. Maybe everyone is just a bit down because of the global pandemic or maybe it my own grumpiness bleeding over from my day job. I work with climate modellers sometimes who are constantly trying to mimic incredibly complex systems in the real world but who are constantly under pressure because it's not accurate enough.

I guess I feel some of the things you are talking about - parental care etc. are probably not worth the processing power or development time versus guided tours or diving because I'm not sure it will ever be good enough. I do feel they got the herding behaviour better and babies now follow their parent a lot more. So it starts to come down to personal preference about priorities and that's where the whole challenge to me is harder than planco - every flat ride in planco behaves the same and it does the same animations on repeat and it doesn't have to have any pathfinding so it's just easier.

Personally I'd like them to bring in a trait system to the animals so that some are more fearful or like swimming more etc. like they did with guests in Planco but I know that they may have to balance it against any performance hit adding more complexity to the behaviour system would bring. I just don't want people to assume it's 'laziness' or a lack of interest in the game that is driving Frontier's decisions. It might be that but it might be other things as well - them putting in more developer time or more 'effort' might not change the outcome at all

 

[PeppyPepp]

I feel like they have a lot planned for 2021. The game has been out for a year, and they have probably been working throughout the year on features we currently don't have and are a big missing piece of the puzzle - diving/proper swimming and flying animations (because we were aware that it was apparently a difficult thing to animate). I am certain we will get diving and flying animations at some point, and given Frontier's beautiful model work, I am sure it will be properly done. I cannot imagine PZ's final animal rooster without otters, or seals, or actual flying birds.

I think we all need to remember that they have a whole rollout for the game, we just don't know about it. They aren't just deciding week to week what the next DLC or gameplay feature will be. These things are planned in advance. They might make tweaks and adjustments based on our feedback, which is great, but the important things are already decided and set in motion.

I do wholeheartedly agree about communication. It's just so nice to see Chante chatting with us in threads. The other day she posted in my thread about which animals she uses in her zoos, and I really appreciated that. Not because it was my thread, but because she gave her input and interacted with us. I knew she was there, reading and watching our comments.

I do have something else to add. Not long ago, a Youtuber named Mike Sheets had a discussion about PZ on his YT channel page. Lots of people replied with great, level-headed responses, and their wishes for the game. It was really interesting to read. Not long after that, he said Chante saw his post. I can't remember her exact words, but it was something along how valuable and helpful all the comments were. I know they read our comments even if they are not interacting with us, but again, a little more communication would be very appreciated.

For now, I am very excited about the upcoming update and the DLC of course. I am hopeful we will get some new gameplay features and maybe new management options.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

So it starts to come down to personal preference about priorities and that's where the whole challenge to me is harder than planco - every flat ride in planco behaves the same and it does the same animations on repeat and it doesn't have to have any pathfinding so it's just easier.

I absolutely agree that the community is harder to please. But to me that is mostly not due to people being unreasonable, but to the fact, that this game just needs different things than Planet Coaster.I said it in another thread, but PZ is not the little sister of Planet Coaster and they need to stop treating it that way. And to be honest, if you decide to develop a zoo game, you have to face the fact that you have to deliver good animals and that these animals will be the main aspects of the game. Even for the hardcore builders that can not differ a lemur from a cappuchin monkey. Because even them ask for more game changing animals like birds or sea lions.

If Frontier did their research they knew they'll get in contact with a passionate community who actually come from a time were DLCs were bigger and more game changing and who are used to having a diverse fauna.

In my opinion, the faults are on both sides. The players are very demanding, but Frontier makes the small size of the DLCs way more obvious by calling it "South America pack" or "Australia Pack". That was the biggest marketing mistake they could have made in my opinion. Of course people translate it with "these DLCs represent contenent X", when they clearly can not with that size.

I think what most of the community agrees with is that this is the best zoo game as of today and it has a lot of potential.But all of this potential is wasted and will never be worked upon if the player numbres won't improve. And they can only improve if something actually happens to this game. What that is, yeah, that comes down to personal preference, I agree. For me it would be more animations for the animals and diverse and individual behaviours, for the builders its more actual zoo stuff and animals with a more diverse habitat (e.g. aviaries), for theme park enthusiasts its flat rides or whatever. So yes, this community is hard to please, but also very huge. Now imagine bringing all of them together again and make them play this game again - the sales would rise skyscraper high. But if they go on like they do currently, they sleep over this.

 

[paul78]

Definitely agree @Swjosdotschka. Frontier does seem like they’ve kinda let PZ slip away a little bit. With the console release of PC and now people saying PZ should get the console treatment......no thanks! There’s still so much to do for the game. If I was to answer honestly has PZ lived up to the hype of the announcement trailer when everybody was talking about it and so hyped for it. My answer would be yes and no. Yes in the fact that building and exhibit making is unbelievable and this is the best game to date for a zoo simulation game. No in the fact that we’re not any closer to knowing if the cobra engine will limit underwater swimming animations and although aviary should be possible still no word on that. Now I know that frontier is more then likely not going to say anything and it would be a huge surprise if they did implement these in future updates but.... it would also be a huge letdown if these never got implemented. And yes this game does almost seem to planet coasterish for my preference. I’m not knocking PC I own the complete game but let PC be PC and PZ be PZ. And let’s remember the major disappointment with PC was the water park packs people wanted which the cobra engine did limit from my understanding. Now I was fine with this actually the typical amusement park game was fine for me but a lot were disappointed. And now with a zoo game you almost have to find a way to implement water features into this game. It is a zoo game so it’s absolutely necessary the animals act and animate as real as possible. As everyone or just about anyway would love to get some semi aquatic animals into the game. Our saltwater crocs and gharial for example should be able to dive and swim underwater. U could also include the polar bear and tigers and even jaguars to this. Tigers and jaguars may not be quite as good swimmers as polar bears but are still capable of underwater swimming in short bursts. Now the game is still great but this is what it will take to get this game over the hump imo.

 

[Thtp15]

I think most of the points are already mentioned:

• the community would like to get more feedback: on issues (e.g. on issue tracker), upcoming stuff, gameplay
• on the other hand the communities expectations are very high (maybe also because Frontier hyped them at the begining more then expected)
• the (maybe already before release planned) updates & DLCs do not match with the communities expectations (is this fair? I think everyone will have his own opinion)

But one point regarding all this is missing (or lost within the other points): The impact of the pandamic. Even if companies like Frontier could do HomeOffice easier then other companies, I think this circumstance,

• makes effective team work development harder
• makes it necessary to reorganise workflows and organisation structures
• slow down schedules

Also we know that one of their community manager left the company. Which could have also a hugh impact (even if it maybe not should).

So, yes I would like to see more stuff (also game changing stuff) in the future. And the fact that they, until now, not rejected to implement swiming or flying animation gives hope that they maybe still try to make it possible. And yes I would like to get more information and communication.

But please let us be more kind in our communcation. Some posts in this forums sounds like Frontier wants to have it like this (less communication, less content, ...). But with the lack of information could it also be that this is because of the current circumstances and Frontier maybe works on dealing with it and improve it, even if we not see it yet?

 

[TFG21]

But one point regarding all this is missing (or lost within the other points): The impact of the pandamic.

Was just about to make a post like this, a lot of people seem to forget this. We very likely have seen a different version of events than Frontier had intended for the first year of release for PZ. We also will probably never know how it was supposed to go. It is completely unfair to make comparisons from PC to PZ in this regard.

 

[WingardiumLevicoaster]

Can we keep on the thread topic please

 

[Lutschpastille]

Or can somebody close my thread, please?

 

[HeatherG]

Or can somebody close my thread, please?

Sure thing, thread closed