New player experience with limpets

[Nitross]

First of all, sorry if this is a re-post but the search doesn't seem to work until I post something to prove I'm actually someone (aren't the reCAPTCHA enough?).

I am a new Elite player since about 3 weeks ago; some vacation time lined up to the Steam Summer sale and I though, "Why not?".

First experience with mining was on a Hauler, and moving along to get fragments of ore until you have actual cargo you can sell was so tedious and long that I put off trying again until I had a better ship; one that can use Limpets.

A few weeks after that, in a brand new Asp Explorer thanks to some generous community goals, I load up a controller and go to a mining spot only to find out reloading ammo didn't give me Limpets to fire.

And once I go back to a station, it is only after stumbling into advanced outfitting that I saw you could buy them there. And even then, imagine my surprise once I saw that they took the cargo space I want to use them to fill.

Bottom line: limpets are counter intuitive and use too much module space with the different controllers for something that ALSO needs cargo space for it's "ammo". The whole experience with them just makes me want to never have anything to do with limpets and mining as a whole. Especially considering there's a perfect way to make them better...

TLDR: The limpet controller should work like the hangar bays for SRVs and SLF; the action types - collector, prospecting, fuel, etc. - would depend on the loadout and not on the controller. The controller would only decide the amount of limpets carried and the amount controlled at the same time.

This would be a lot easier to manage than the current system and leave a lot more flexibility for loadouts.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Nearly identical to my experience. Not hard, they're cheap, and you just fill half your hold with them and use A-rated launchers.

But the entire system is a bit silly. I joined crew on a mining Anaconda, and at one point watched his collector limpet swarm kamikaze the asteroid.

That, and there's no limpet tutorial for new players. It would be super-simple: use one limpet to grab a specific item. Then use one limpet to grab 10 items.


Still, a "smart" limpet controller and limpets as (synthesizable) ammo would be way more awesome. Or my ton-of-materials-cargo-unit idea that would be basically synthesis that uses a cargo unit and can be bought from stations.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Still, a "smart" limpet controller and limpets as (synthesizable) ammo would be way more awesome.

FD have said that we will be getting the ability to synthesize limpets.

I joined crew on a mining Anaconda, and at one point watched his collector limpet swarm kamikaze the asteroid.

Once you get used to how limpets operate, you'll find that they don't kamikaze. What happens is a fragment is currently inside the asteroid. Limpets die when they hit the roid trying to get at this fragment. It's easy enough to avoid fragments going inside roids, as most of the time it's the roid rolling over top of the fragment.

I don't agree with putting everything into tutorials. Just play the game and learn. So you make mistakes, that's actually the best way to learn new things.

 

[Teh Smoo]

FD have said that we will be getting the ability to synthesize limpets.

Once you get used to how limpets operate, you'll find that they don't kamikaze. What happens is a fragment is currently inside the asteroid. Limpets die when they hit the roid trying to get at this fragment. It's easy enough to avoid fragments going inside roids, as most of the time it's the roid rolling over top of the fragment.

I don't agree with putting everything into tutorials. Just play the game and learn. So you make mistakes, that's actually the best way to learn new things.

The limpets went to collect, and died to a rock. What part of that is okay? The fragments violating the laws of physics? The limpets with zero collision avoidance?

I don't mean that just one died. A half dozen bum-rushed the rock, and lost. I've had a limpet go to collect materials in a wreckage deep-space site, and zoom themselves into a floating piece of debris, fatally.

If limpets were created from nearly nothing, on the fly, that might be somewhat acceptable, but they're ONE TON EACH. This limits their usefulness significantly- a beginning miner cannot bring 100 limpets and just ignore the losses.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I understand that the physics is pretty bad, and I'm not defending the what it is implemented. I have previously suggested that fragments are knocked away when this happens.

But it is easily avoidable by being careful where on the roid you mine.

 

[Wyldwiisel]

My first experience of mining was pretty much identical and it hasn't improved at all since I think the whole system needs looking at and I think the limpet controllers should have unlimited ammo current system is just bizarre and conter intuitive and turret mining lasers need a description that suites there actual use

 

[space voyager]

A miner learns pretty quickly to shoot the mining laser somewhere around the axis of rotation of an asteroid. This way the fragments fly away from the asteroid and won't get in a way of the spin. Also knowing that the fragments are chipped under an angle opposite to the one you're shooting from is also valuable. Never checked whether the angle is the same as the light would reflect from the surface.

 

[Watcher]

I pretty much agree with this.

Limpet controllers should just be limpet 'printers' with size of controller determining amount of ammo and module quality possibly adjusting things like controller range and/or number of simultaneous limpets.
I go further and say that all limpet functions should be available and then it is up to you how to use them. You could potentially have multiple controller modules but that would essentially just increases your ammo level, control range etc defaulting to the 'best' module option.
For extra fun give all ships a class zero module with a single ammo point that could be used for emergencies. Perhaps some basic self repair where you don't have an afmu or perhaps you can help out another ship in distress. This opens up lots of interesting interactions that wouldn't otherwise be open unless you are very specifically playing for them. Ship in distress needs repair or fuel - how many people would typically carry a (specific) controller on the off chance this might come up? If everyone had a _very_ basic module you could do more with this and people who carried a proper controller module would have more flexibility.
You could use this as the basis for a basic ship to ship negotiated trade mechanic without needing docking maybe - though that would be cool too frankly.

Of the various suggestions threads I'm tempted to start this is the one at the top of my list.. But it is already here
Also make SRVs printable with ammo for consistency please

 

[Teh Smoo]

I pretty much agree with this.

Limpet controllers should just be limpet 'printers' with size of controller determining amount of ammo and module quality possibly adjusting things like controller range and/or number of simultaneous limpets.
I go further and say that all limpet functions should be available and then it is up to you how to use them. You could potentially have multiple controller modules but that would essentially just increases your ammo level, control range etc defaulting to the 'best' module option.
For extra fun give all ships a class zero module with a single ammo point that could be used for emergencies. Perhaps some basic self repair where you don't have an afmu or perhaps you can help out another ship in distress. This opens up lots of interesting interactions that wouldn't otherwise be open unless you are very specifically playing for them. Ship in distress needs repair or fuel - how many people would typically carry a (specific) controller on the off chance this might come up? If everyone had a _very_ basic module you could do more with this and people who carried a proper controller module would have more flexibility.
You could use this as the basis for a basic ship to ship negotiated trade mechanic without needing docking maybe - though that would be cool too frankly.

Of the various suggestions threads I'm tempted to start this is the one at the top of my list.. But it is already here
Also make SRVs printable with ammo for consistency please

That might be TOO awesome.

But really, limpets seem deliberately gimped. What does that accomplish, really? Retrieval/repair drone technology would be pretty important in any spacefaring society.

 

[Nitross]

Back with a bit more feedback on this.

So I decided I would load up on a few limpets to try and help with salvaging and give them another go without going into a full mining build.

Works OK when you know what to expect, I guess; especially in salvage where materials dont take cargo so it's not as bad to use some for limpets.

But then, here comes the next problem: I tried switching to one of my other ships to do something different and it din't have the cargo space for the limpets.

"Ammunition" for a module should not prevent you from switching ships.

Another thing I noticed is that, if you want to make room in your cargo, your'e out of luck if Advanced Maintenance isn't available in the station. You can't sell the limpets back and have to discard them in the hangar.

With all this, the whole "limpets use cargo for storage" thing really feels poorly designed. The other parts, like having a different module for different functions, aren't great in my opinion since they limit what you can do with your ship. But it can at least be argued that they serve some purpose in balancing the cost effectiveness of the function they serve. So, if there was one thing to "fix" on limpets, I'd say it's how you carry and refill them.