Coaster Crazy New Rollercoaster Game: question to staff.
- Thread starter sirchick
- Start date
Michael Brookes
Game Director
But then you don't get chance to hear what users want - as im sure there are tons of RCT3 fans looking for a new gen theme park game...where can we voice what we want? It would be hard to keep track without it being in their own section.
Specially since Atari never listened to RCT3 fans you don't want to make same mistakes. Its one of the biggest problems with developers - they don't communicate / listen to what we want which is the best way to make it sell.
I'd say a section with like "Project: Code name" then we can put some input into it
Specially since Atari never listened to RCT3 fans you don't want to make same mistakes. Its one of the biggest problems with developers - they don't communicate / listen to what we want which is the best way to make it sell.
I'd say a section with like "Project: Code name" then we can put some input into it
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Michael Brookes
Game Director
sweet
Well guys,
You know, some don't care for your older roller coaster version , but to be perfectly frank, alot of us did/do and look forward to what you can bring to the table. Here is my list ,. be ready... its a good one!
1. PC playable (thnx I only use pc)
2. Roller coasters that have loading tracks, more theming etc.
2a. Lets face it , people want to remake their favorite parks, this brings me to part 3.
3. Sandbox mode !
4. Graphics, personally I loved your rct version (not so much thrillville) but it allowed for allot more to be put on screen and we know you don't want to limit your project to only high end systems (Thou that would rock) however in realistic standings, it wouldn't so, in this keep up the good graphics (fun ) but if you are looking for more (realism) as stated in a blog, I would suggest allot of customization.
4a. bit map layovers. (allow users to change the actual skin of a ride?) etc
5. We love roller coaster games for the coasters, but please keep in mind what keeps many (even those that don't visit the forums ever) that it's not just the roller coasters, but the park itself,. the managment to the small rides. The kids I do know (I am older 44) that do still play rct today, love it for the after effect of seeing their park in full glory. They love to watch pep's just eat the food or interact. I guess it comes down to the idea of your own making things more detailed or realistic.
6. Refering to rides, small rides to me are just as important as the stalls for food etc.. the one thing I never understood was, why didn't things fit more to a park concept that we know and love? IE stall options to customize etc.
7. Where did you get that ride from?!! ok this is a bit of a pet-peve of mine and others I know (those kids I talk about , IE mine) the issue with the odd rides, I never understood it.. 20,000 roller coasters are not fun, give me 10 with some uber options for designing, thats all we want.
Instead of re-inventing the rollercoaster, how about adding more rides, shops , themes, trees, a parking lot! let me make that dream park. Yes, this is a roller coaster simulator, but everyone I know (as myself) would look for the standard favorites, wood, steel, speed, loops, etc, not this flying on back etc... ??? never understood why it seemed people would enjoy that, Eh for proof look at all the old fan screen shots and videos, find me any that have those "unique" coasters to make their parks, they rarly do. (sorry for the rant).
ok I will stop for now, personally I think you guys get it, you did what you did with thrillville because it was ment to be a console kid version of a themepark, I get that, but if you are really making a rollercoaster sim with emphesis on realism, this is what I would be looking for. If I want full realizm I would goto a park or just get the disney coaster designer (ok I have that and anything roller coaster realted) but to be honest, the most fun I have had and repeat to this day is still rct and there is a reason. While I know there are technicalities of making something exactly like rct that would probably legally put you in a bind, I say do what you can to get close or even excel and go beyond showing that your game is indeed no duplicate. Eh you guys know your tech and legal limits no doubt, but there are many watching and as soon as go public (per say with real info) I can imagin you will see a huge influx of people coming aboard.
Some may not like what you made RCT into, but personally I love it, from the riding my rides, to seeing all the action up close, I still can't get enough. I hope this is where you are going with your title. (well at least I can wish it ).
look forward to news in the future,
A fan.
ps.
One thing I always wanted and you can steal my idea, is where you blueprint out your coaster in your park, the hit something like construct and it actually builds up in game in real time, (well game time ) and you see the crews at it or each day bits get added on etc. ) eh stuff like that is just fun, but I know it might not add much to the end game, for me the reason I play rct again is because of the details. The simple stupid details like water reflections or people planing out their day or watching them go on that ride, eh my own little world. Hmm come to think about it, how about a "Hand of god mode" so if that kid breaks my bench I can throw him in a lake? hehe
Well guys,
You know, some don't care for your older roller coaster version , but to be perfectly frank, alot of us did/do and look forward to what you can bring to the table. Here is my list ,. be ready... its a good one!
1. PC playable (thnx I only use pc)
2. Roller coasters that have loading tracks, more theming etc.
2a. Lets face it , people want to remake their favorite parks, this brings me to part 3.
3. Sandbox mode !
4. Graphics, personally I loved your rct version (not so much thrillville) but it allowed for allot more to be put on screen and we know you don't want to limit your project to only high end systems (Thou that would rock) however in realistic standings, it wouldn't so, in this keep up the good graphics (fun ) but if you are looking for more (realism) as stated in a blog, I would suggest allot of customization.
4a. bit map layovers. (allow users to change the actual skin of a ride?) etc
5. We love roller coaster games for the coasters, but please keep in mind what keeps many (even those that don't visit the forums ever) that it's not just the roller coasters, but the park itself,. the managment to the small rides. The kids I do know (I am older 44) that do still play rct today, love it for the after effect of seeing their park in full glory. They love to watch pep's just eat the food or interact. I guess it comes down to the idea of your own making things more detailed or realistic.
6. Refering to rides, small rides to me are just as important as the stalls for food etc.. the one thing I never understood was, why didn't things fit more to a park concept that we know and love? IE stall options to customize etc.
7. Where did you get that ride from?!! ok this is a bit of a pet-peve of mine and others I know (those kids I talk about , IE mine) the issue with the odd rides, I never understood it.. 20,000 roller coasters are not fun, give me 10 with some uber options for designing, thats all we want.
Instead of re-inventing the rollercoaster, how about adding more rides, shops , themes, trees, a parking lot! let me make that dream park. Yes, this is a roller coaster simulator, but everyone I know (as myself) would look for the standard favorites, wood, steel, speed, loops, etc, not this flying on back etc... ??? never understood why it seemed people would enjoy that, Eh for proof look at all the old fan screen shots and videos, find me any that have those "unique" coasters to make their parks, they rarly do. (sorry for the rant).
ok I will stop for now, personally I think you guys get it, you did what you did with thrillville because it was ment to be a console kid version of a themepark, I get that, but if you are really making a rollercoaster sim with emphesis on realism, this is what I would be looking for. If I want full realizm I would goto a park or just get the disney coaster designer (ok I have that and anything roller coaster realted) but to be honest, the most fun I have had and repeat to this day is still rct and there is a reason. While I know there are technicalities of making something exactly like rct that would probably legally put you in a bind, I say do what you can to get close or even excel and go beyond showing that your game is indeed no duplicate. Eh you guys know your tech and legal limits no doubt, but there are many watching and as soon as go public (per say with real info) I can imagin you will see a huge influx of people coming aboard.
Some may not like what you made RCT into, but personally I love it, from the riding my rides, to seeing all the action up close, I still can't get enough. I hope this is where you are going with your title. (well at least I can wish it ).
look forward to news in the future,
A fan.
ps.
One thing I always wanted and you can steal my idea, is where you blueprint out your coaster in your park, the hit something like construct and it actually builds up in game in real time, (well game time ) and you see the crews at it or each day bits get added on etc. ) eh stuff like that is just fun, but I know it might not add much to the end game, for me the reason I play rct again is because of the details. The simple stupid details like water reflections or people planing out their day or watching them go on that ride, eh my own little world. Hmm come to think about it, how about a "Hand of god mode" so if that kid breaks my bench I can throw him in a lake? hehe
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The growing trend in the RCT community is not the make money / complete campaigns anymore. Its about producing nice quality parks to show off in the forums / youtube (which in itself - self promotes the game when a park looks amazing) This is deffinately the route to go down im my view.
Obviously custom creations are again the heart and soul that kept RCT3 alive - so its vital that is kept in my opinion. It certainly would not hinder future versions of the game when including new graphic engines, better physics, better particle renders - these things cannot be done via custom scenery and so it won't prevent future game development. The sims is a prime example of supporting user made content, it certainly does not hinder the success of their game when applied correctly.
As for thrill ville well the whole invisible track stuff was far to kid like - thankfully you guys confirmed it was nothing like that.
p.s please allow itunes library/media player library for mp3s so we don't need seperate folders for mp3s to use in the game - saves us hard disk space to set a custom directory.
I also personally would go high end on graphics - sure it would make a slow start for the less hard core gamer, but itll then be built to last longer. Graphics sell games these days rarely ever the game play but of course game play is important but try not to be too strict on textures & models otherwise it might look too outdated.
Obviously custom creations are again the heart and soul that kept RCT3 alive - so its vital that is kept in my opinion. It certainly would not hinder future versions of the game when including new graphic engines, better physics, better particle renders - these things cannot be done via custom scenery and so it won't prevent future game development. The sims is a prime example of supporting user made content, it certainly does not hinder the success of their game when applied correctly.
As for thrill ville well the whole invisible track stuff was far to kid like - thankfully you guys confirmed it was nothing like that.
p.s please allow itunes library/media player library for mp3s so we don't need seperate folders for mp3s to use in the game - saves us hard disk space to set a custom directory.
I also personally would go high end on graphics - sure it would make a slow start for the less hard core gamer, but itll then be built to last longer. Graphics sell games these days rarely ever the game play but of course game play is important but try not to be too strict on textures & models otherwise it might look too outdated.
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I think You guys (and gals) at Frontier were on the right track with RCT3. The look and feel of the game was good overall - The original RCT 1 & 2 were fun to play and watch as simple cartoony characters interacted with your theme park. The peeps' in RCT3 with their simple, cartoony style and "button eyes" continued that feel (the Thrillville peeps' eyes are rather creepy with their unblinking whites showing but RCT3 peeps' have a wonderful "Barney Rubble" blank stare that gives you a sense of 'intelligent stupidity' that makes them seem more unpredictable).
I like a challenge when it comes to a simulation game and RCT3 seemed to lack any good "things have gone terribly wrong" events. Sure rides break down and a mechanic comes to fix it. That's fine but not a sign of a failing park.
What I miss more than anything is the vandalism and destruction that the first 2 versions had. When peeps got angry in RCT 1 & 2, you got broken benches and streetlamps (and sometimes those just happened with age) which gave you a visual sense that an area needed attention. In RCT3 you could really only see sad and angry peeps when you used the stats menu, and I don't believe many want to play the game with half the screen covered by that list. Even a nimbus around unhappy peeps would have helped, but an "path of destruction" is more fun to rebuild - otherwise it's just make a pretty section and it stays pretty forever.
Knowing a little bit about modeling and texture usage, I believe that another trick could be used in a new game: age the rides. First by removing texture effects such as gloss/shinyness, then swap out textures with ones that are rusty/grimy/peeling. That would make old rides stand out and give the player a need -a desire- to work on an area (or not; some might find it fun to watch an old chairswing rust away and disentrigrate).
In short, the only big challenge in RCT3's scenarios was building new in order to satisfy its goal. More peep generated setbacks and visable destruction would be more fun.
I like a challenge when it comes to a simulation game and RCT3 seemed to lack any good "things have gone terribly wrong" events. Sure rides break down and a mechanic comes to fix it. That's fine but not a sign of a failing park.
What I miss more than anything is the vandalism and destruction that the first 2 versions had. When peeps got angry in RCT 1 & 2, you got broken benches and streetlamps (and sometimes those just happened with age) which gave you a visual sense that an area needed attention. In RCT3 you could really only see sad and angry peeps when you used the stats menu, and I don't believe many want to play the game with half the screen covered by that list. Even a nimbus around unhappy peeps would have helped, but an "path of destruction" is more fun to rebuild - otherwise it's just make a pretty section and it stays pretty forever.
Knowing a little bit about modeling and texture usage, I believe that another trick could be used in a new game: age the rides. First by removing texture effects such as gloss/shinyness, then swap out textures with ones that are rusty/grimy/peeling. That would make old rides stand out and give the player a need -a desire- to work on an area (or not; some might find it fun to watch an old chairswing rust away and disentrigrate).
In short, the only big challenge in RCT3's scenarios was building new in order to satisfy its goal. More peep generated setbacks and visable destruction would be more fun.
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I partially agree with the destruction, but found it v.annoying fixing it all, to me it was v.tedius. - I would rather handymen sort it out personally. But like that it costs money to fix - thus making happy guests will save damage and of course cost on that part.
And would like to see security be the method of prevention...security had no effect in previous games and still doesn't from what i can tell in RCT3.
And would like to see security be the method of prevention...security had no effect in previous games and still doesn't from what i can tell in RCT3.
I would love to see:
- more realism and simulation that resembles a real park (better coaster supports, peeps wait in rows for coasters, restaurants)
- the game runs without lag (fps >30) for large parks, even if it requires a high end PC
- the game is fully tested and bugs are worked out before release, or at least updates with patches
- allow user created content (scenery, rides, etc.)
- complete customization, everything from the amount of trash peeps throw on the ground to the frequency of ride break downs.
.
- more realism and simulation that resembles a real park (better coaster supports, peeps wait in rows for coasters, restaurants)
- the game runs without lag (fps >30) for large parks, even if it requires a high end PC
- the game is fully tested and bugs are worked out before release, or at least updates with patches
- allow user created content (scenery, rides, etc.)
- complete customization, everything from the amount of trash peeps throw on the ground to the frequency of ride break downs.
.
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I Agree, but only when it was out-of hand. I remember broken benches being a big problem at one time, but due to lack of maintenance or just age - maybe it was early in RCT3 vanilla, but I havn't seen it since; maybe it was RCT2...
Back then, whichever it was, how I wanted to have the handimen automatically fix things like those if desired...
I predict - when the first screenshot is shown to tease the fans of this genre of gaming, if it looks amazing i bet tons of atari users will swarm here
Remember that this might not even be a "tycoon" type game - it might be just a virtual reality coaster simulator for all that is known. Hopefully it will be a full Simulation game along the lines of RCT, Sim City, Caesar, Empire, etcetera.
On that note... I've been yearning to play Caesar III again but haven't found the old CD. I knew of Caesar IV (the first 3D version) and tried the demo when it came out 5 years ago but the demo didn't please me then. I just reciently bought it anyway and, surprise surprise, I love it. The demo's gameplay seemed wrong, too far off from the gameplay that III had, but IV turns out to be exactly like III in that respect.
The allure Caesar III and IV have for me is how the City's Managment works; closer to the old (really old) original Sim City than to the Empire franchise (add the right support infrastructure and let it go VS. needing to manage the individual peeps).
I would've liked to have seen RCT3 adopt a "building/structure" based infrastructure for the park management, with "Structure Evolution" as your park grows (and decay as it fails):
Examples:
You would need a manager's office to get a Park Inspector and hire employees. The office would start simple and then evolve to allow you to manage other aspects of a park, maybe even lease sections of your park to "outside vendors" such as simulated resturaunt chains.
As before, you get a budget to work within but might even have advisors - heads of the departments that report and manage the sections based on your budget and goal settings. Maybe even a board of directors that you need to be responsible to, who might promote -or fire - you based on your performance. Perhaps the game's goal is to take over the company by rising through the ranks... that might be one, simple method for having on-line multiplayer mode: you might be one of 20 managers for 20 similar parks and you need to out-perform your competition, even taking over other parks from other on-line companies with similar players - or loosing them that way...
Janitors, Grounds Keepers, Security Guards, and Engineers all start out of the main office, and you then get options to place additional support structures (with their own new features) as your park expands improves.
Instead of just placing a Drinks stall and then a Burger bar, you could start with a small, central foodcourt that includes stockroom and a basic menu. As the park grows your menu would expand and you might get new options such as strolling pushcarts, remote kiosks, and eventually additional food courts that would then, too, evolve.
I have other ideas I would share if asked...
In short, instead of micro-managing individual employees, you manage groups by having various infrastructure buildings in place as well as allocating funds for those departments. Your office might come with 1 of each employee (Janitor, Groundskeeper, Guard, Engineer) then each new outpost might need 2 or 3 more; over-build and you run out of employees or exceed your budget, underbuild and you overwork your employees or loose coverage in certain areas. The food court might need something like 10 (cooks, counter help, janitors, etc), with new employees needed as it evolves and expands.
More control over managing a park through this kind of interface is, to me, more fun and more chalenging; while you have more to manage, you needent manage each individually rendered employee.
That, too is a point: while a food court might need 10 employees, not all of them need to be rendered on screen: the game engine might only need to know that you have 5 cooks in a kitchen or you need to hire more. Perhaps it might be up to you to not only allocate enough in your budget for the employees, but have good wages to attact employees (I liked the idea of training employees to improve their performance, but don't feel that disipline is needed- just move training to individual structures and train all assigned to each one).
In RCT3, Employee Peeps seemed to be one source of noticable Lag; I had done a couple of tests a while ago and did notice a drop in performance between parkes with no staff and parks that got janitors and handimen and Guards (Janitors seemed to create the most lag, Guards hardly any). At least that is what I observed.
In Caesar a structure "sends out" it's employee and the state of other structures depends on wether or not that employee passed in within a certain amount of time. How often an employee left depended on how well staffed the building was. It also looks as if there is a limit to the distance away from their home base. RCT3 seems to work similarly, but you needed to hire enough individuals (instead of budgeting) and then set their coverage area, which was tedious. Perhaps a range from a 'home base' would be better, and that range might be adjustable per-building (affecting employee hapiness, too).
Maybe we don't need to have trash/vomit on the paths and then have a janitor come sweep each individual pile up, constantly swapping animations and calling AI routines, but simply change to a dirty path texture where there isn't janitor coverage in an area; then you could just have a janitor pushing a sweeper along, another rolling a trash bin past trash cans, a gadener mowing a grassy area ... Just a though...
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Nice post Vodhin, out of all rct people I take your word as gold with the old devs of the game , your modding was phenomenal. But to another point to your post...
I love the idea of management in that way, thou I dont agree with the scaling or changing up how employees work. I would deter the idea of 10=1 in game IE scale down due to lag. Most system today (if not all at this point) could handle such graphics and let's face it, most people if not all of them when playing a management game like this, strive for the details. Look at all the customization you did, other fans did, just to make the "perfect park". We love the game not only for the management but the details and for me , I want allot more of it. The computers of today can easily handle it. The catch here is to make routine scripting work in your favor for less processing lag. This in turn would then have employees not lagging the game as much, the devs can chime in here, but the lag wasn't due to graphics, it was due to the process in the code no doubt about it.
Eh in the end, I like what you posted, I just don't agree with sectioning things down VI 1=10 concepts. It really isn't needed at this point in our technology and the lost of depth in the game would be felt.
For a prime example, I refer to the recently announced Stronghold 3, while the devs did state they are going more back to the basics of stronghold 1 because the fans wanted it. They are still keeping allot of parts in stronghold 2 that fans loved. One of these is the details of the town at work, it adds no physical meaning to the numbers of the game, but that is the "immersion factor" they realize people want in the game and love. In this they even announced that the towns will feel more alive with random people drinking, walking, making jokes and just being peasants doing every day life things. The response to this has been overwhelmingly positive.
The fun sir, is in the details ... Have a good base game and mechanics, but in the end people will keep playing if the details keep them there. The more there is , the more people will keep at it to see it all.
I love the idea of management in that way, thou I dont agree with the scaling or changing up how employees work. I would deter the idea of 10=1 in game IE scale down due to lag. Most system today (if not all at this point) could handle such graphics and let's face it, most people if not all of them when playing a management game like this, strive for the details. Look at all the customization you did, other fans did, just to make the "perfect park". We love the game not only for the management but the details and for me , I want allot more of it. The computers of today can easily handle it. The catch here is to make routine scripting work in your favor for less processing lag. This in turn would then have employees not lagging the game as much, the devs can chime in here, but the lag wasn't due to graphics, it was due to the process in the code no doubt about it.
Eh in the end, I like what you posted, I just don't agree with sectioning things down VI 1=10 concepts. It really isn't needed at this point in our technology and the lost of depth in the game would be felt.
For a prime example, I refer to the recently announced Stronghold 3, while the devs did state they are going more back to the basics of stronghold 1 because the fans wanted it. They are still keeping allot of parts in stronghold 2 that fans loved. One of these is the details of the town at work, it adds no physical meaning to the numbers of the game, but that is the "immersion factor" they realize people want in the game and love. In this they even announced that the towns will feel more alive with random people drinking, walking, making jokes and just being peasants doing every day life things. The response to this has been overwhelmingly positive.
The fun sir, is in the details
... Have a good base game and mechanics, but in the end people will keep playing if the details keep them there. The more there is , the more people will keep at it to see it all.From the success of RCT franchise, they would be taking a bit of a risky step to make a simulation game because most of the RCT fans would be like "this isn't what im used to" and will easily deter people off from the learning curve of the new style. Plus you risk making sumin that fails altogether.
RCT business style and not simulation style is the best way to go because theres no doubt it works and its v.fun... shame RCT3 sucked for scenario's and making money etc. RCT 2 and 1 was better for that. But RCT3 was great in all other aspects.
RCT business style and not simulation style is the best way to go because theres no doubt it works and its v.fun... shame RCT3 sucked for scenario's and making money etc. RCT 2 and 1 was better for that. But RCT3 was great in all other aspects.
I definitely agree with everyone here about the management, however i have a few ideas regarding the coasters itself:
1) The biggest problem i had with rollercoasters and recreations was the limited angles and slopes in the drops and lift chains. For example, instead of just 'gentle' and 'steep' slopes, actually let us choose the angle of the slopes. Lets say i want something between a gentle and steep slope, so around 55 degrees or so, then you could to that. Also, the drops were always too boxy and robotic i would say. there needs to be an option to smooth it out, and make it look more like the first drop on 'milenium force' at cedar point. The only way I could see this being accomplished is to have a NoLimits style ride or something along the lines. That would make the game be much more fun and realistic in my opinion.
2) Another thing that always bugged me was the square grid system. How paths could only be placed in lines either vertically or horizontally. You need to be able to create something in the middle there, like a 45 degree angle. This would also apply to Thrill rides and rollercoasters(stations). That would give you so much more variety and freedom. Just an idea would be to divide the square sections into 4 seperate triangles. I realize that it would still be off and stretched, but it's a start.
3) I was always attracted to tycoon games because of the freedom they give you. So i would add things like parking lots and more realistic ride entrances. Again, just like xnode said, details are VERY important. That is what will keep the future fans into the game.
1) The biggest problem i had with rollercoasters and recreations was the limited angles and slopes in the drops and lift chains. For example, instead of just 'gentle' and 'steep' slopes, actually let us choose the angle of the slopes. Lets say i want something between a gentle and steep slope, so around 55 degrees or so, then you could to that. Also, the drops were always too boxy and robotic i would say. there needs to be an option to smooth it out, and make it look more like the first drop on 'milenium force' at cedar point. The only way I could see this being accomplished is to have a NoLimits style ride or something along the lines. That would make the game be much more fun and realistic in my opinion.
2) Another thing that always bugged me was the square grid system. How paths could only be placed in lines either vertically or horizontally. You need to be able to create something in the middle there, like a 45 degree angle. This would also apply to Thrill rides and rollercoasters(stations). That would give you so much more variety and freedom. Just an idea would be to divide the square sections into 4 seperate triangles. I realize that it would still be off and stretched, but it's a start.
3) I was always attracted to tycoon games because of the freedom they give you. So i would add things like parking lots and more realistic ride entrances. Again, just like xnode said, details are VERY important. That is what will keep the future fans into the game.
Indeed I also wish that the game offers custiom scener,ride,flat rides and ext suport if it wasn for the community really rct3 would of died long ago. No offence.
I also hope for more realistic coasters, building peices and so on like the sims in a sence, better quies, pre shows that you can customly make. Maybe, stunt shows recreations of actuall parks. A fair ground mode, and everything that made rct3 good aka sandbox campain and so forth, what would be awsome is a 1st person walk around mode.
I also hope for more realistic coasters, building peices and so on like the sims in a sence, better quies, pre shows that you can customly make. Maybe, stunt shows recreations of actuall parks. A fair ground mode, and everything that made rct3 good aka sandbox campain and so forth, what would be awsome is a 1st person walk around mode.
Michael Brookes
Game Director
Well i hope this game is for high spec - not low spec. RCT was high spec for its time and it lasted for ages i think the same should be done for this game. Long shelf life often provides more time to develop expansion packs etc.
p.s Are you working with Atari on this project?
p.s Are you working with Atari on this project?
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Michael Brookes
Game Director