New weapon : Electromagnetic Pulse Bomb

[coca_fr]

Name : Magnetic Electromagnetic Pulse Bomb
Damage type : Electronic
Damage : none
Ammo : 1
Effect : When explode generate malfunction into all surrounding ship EMP Bomb range.
Range : Class 4 (2km), Class 3 (1.5Km), Class 2 (1 km), Class 1 (500m)
Timing : You would have to drop the EMP bomb then run away as far as you can, because you'll be affected by the EMP bomb as well. 5s later its explode. The closer you are, the more it creates malfunction into your ship.

Can you shoot the EMP Bomb ?
If you shoot at it, it explodes and do unstable disabling wave "damage". As the EMP wave could be concentrated in some point it could generate heats in modules/ships.

Couldn't it be exploited ?
Not so much as it's clearly a defensive weapon.

It is a one shop powerfull weapon. It's not going to completly disable your ship and your shield. The bomb will create reccuring malfunction into your ship. It won't disable your shield and reboot your ship. It'll only make it useless the time the defender just run away. Indeed if the defender flee straight in front of him and the attacker is behind him and he drop an EMP bomb... the attacker is not going to run after him, he'll just try to avoid him as fast as he can... It'll give the defender time to escape the attacker.

It could of course also be used for piracy and terrorism. But it's a new weapon and be can be fun.

So it's a powerfull weapon with no counter weapon ?
Not at all ! Electronic countermeasure could be a counter weapon to EMP bomb. Indeed Electronic countermeasure would spread an opposite polarity wave to EMP bomb making it completly useless.
--> This would make Electronic countermeasure usefull again !

EMP Bomb would then become a great defensive weapon that can be countered by Electronic countermeasure only or by running away.

 

[zegram33]

im gonna be honest, that sounds insanely powerful with such a large area, especially given the long windup things like shields have
you could have it overheat and disable the firing ship too so they can launch a heat sink to prevent module damage but even then you'd get wings of people sending in a suicide sidewinder then hitting the big ships

id be ok with emp limpets that attached to shieldless targets and disabled a random system
I'm also ok with the ECM ability dealing a little shield damage in its aoe, or something like that, but an emp bomb is way too strong
basically, everything in ED has a countermeasure you can use to negate it, and that....doesnt

 

[coca_fr]

I agree it is a bit too powerfull. But i like the idea of the weapon.

It could be a possibility that the ship is only "disabled" for 4 seconds for example. It could have major malfunction instead of reboot of ships (Ships seems so powerless when targoids disable ships).

I agree with you there is need to have some challenge with the weapons. Instead of high range, the weapon could have effect very close like 500m in class 1, so you could avoid it with good engine.
But the one going full railguns and trying to destroy you close combat would suffer from this defensive weapons. That's a good idea.

Class 4 could have a range of 2km so a big ship have to remove one of its powerfull weapon to equipe this one shot god weapon.

I think it would be fair this way. It would be balanced.

It would be like holding a nuclear weapon on your ship. People who scan you and see you are holding a EMP bomb would think twice before attacking you.
Traders could protect easily themselves with this kind of weapons, especially with weak hauler.

What do you think of that guys ?

 

[Siobhan]

Sounds like the energy bomb from the original. It was removed for a reason.

 

[ChiefRedCloud]

Name : Magnetic Electromagnetic Pulse Bomb
Damage type : Electronic
Damage : none
Effect : When explode disable all surrounding ships, modules, weapons, completly or partially for 2 seconds, forcing your ships to reboot.

It could be available in different class. The higher class the higher strength it has and wider surrounding area is affected.

For example a class 3/4 could make effect 8 Km away disabling everything in the surrounding area. A class 1 & 2 could affect respectively 2km and 4km away.

As for missile and torpedo different version could be available : A one shot version would disable everything. A multi-shots version will only disable part of modules / weapons of surrounding ships.

It would be a very usefull weapon for defense, piracy, terrorism !

To make it not too powerfull, the effect of the bomb would only last 2 seconds then your ships reboot.

I'm wondering why it doesn't exist in game yet as it is a known effect for quite some time on Nuclear Bomb and is a subject of study by military.

Sounds familure ....

Chief

 

[Arry]

Sounds like the energy bomb from the original. It was removed for a reason.

This; except the OP is looking at EMP with a range: Which may included their own ship? Any such weapon, would instantly drop shields and so would be over powered in many ways.

 

[coca_fr]

This; except the OP is looking at EMP with a range: Which may included their own ship? Any such weapon, would instantly drop shields and so would be over powered in many ways.

Indeed from what i just read about Energy Bomb, it was dealing damage. EMP bomb is not dealing any damage at all, only disabling ships and/or modules/weapons for like 5 seconds.

You are right Arry that this weapon should affect your own ship as well. There is no reason your ship should be immune to it for no reason.

This way this weapon could be countered : You have to drop the EMP Bomb in the battlefield then run as fast as you can... after 5 seconds the bomb explode.
If you use a class 4 EMP bomb then you need very fast engineered thrusters or your ships may be totally or partially disabled...

The far away you are the less disabling it does to your equipment. It would not be overpowered as it would be a one shot defensive weapon that would sacrify one weapon slot. People will still prefer ramming into your ship to disable your shield and railgun to destroy it...

You could shoot the EMP bomb but it would explode and do unstable disabling wave "damage". As the EMP wave could be concentrated in some point it could generate heats in modules/ships.

It would then become a risky defensive and balanced weapons to use to escape ships attacks.

Griefers could be harmed by using this kind of weapons as if a defender shoot at it they would have no time to escape it's effect.

 

[Arry]

Indeed from what i just read about Energy Bomb, it was dealing damage. EMP bomb is not dealing any damage at all, only disabling ships and/or modules/weapons for like 5 seconds.

You are right Arry that this weapon should affect your own ship as well. There is no reason your ship should be immune to it for no reason.

This way this weapon could be countered : You have to drop the weapon in the battlefield then run as fast as you can... after 5 seconds the bomb explode.
If you use a class 4 EMP bomb then you need very fast engineered thrusters or your ships may be totally or partially disabled...

The far away you are the less disabling it does to your equipment.

You could shoot the EMP bomb but it would explode and do unstable disabling wave "damage". As the EMP wave could be concentrated in some point it could generate heats in modules/ships.

It would then become a risky defensive and balanced weapons to use to escape ships attacks.

Griefers could be harmed by using this kind of weapons as if some shoot at it when they deploy it they could be harmed as well and could not escape.

The pulse would take down any amount of shields and so could then be exploited, because as you have said, 2 maybe 5 seconds and the ship(s) reboot, but how long does it take for shields to get back up to full strength?

 

[coca_fr]

The pulse would take down any amount of shields and so could then be exploited, because as you have said, 2 maybe 5 seconds and the ship(s) reboot, but how long does it take for shields to get back up to full strength?

Instead of disabling completly the ship and forcing it to reboot like in Thargoids attack, it could simply create malfunction all over the ship. Your ship would not respond for 5 seconds.

The weapon would create reccuring malfunction into your ship. It won't disable your shield and reboot your ship. It'll only make it useless the time the defender just run away.

It could simply be used as a strong mine weapon. Indeed if the defender go in front of him and the attacker is behind him and he drop an EMP bomb... the attacker is not going to run after him... It'll give the defender time to escape the attacker.

 

[Arry]

Instead of disabling completly the ship and forcing it to reboot like in Thargoids attack, it could simply create malfunction all over the ship. Your ship would not respond for 5 seconds.

The weapon would create reccuring malfunction into your ship. It won't disable your shield and reboot your ship. It'll only make it useless the time the defender just run away.

It could simply be used as a strong mine weapon. Indeed if the defender go in front of him and the attacker is behind him and he drop an EMP bomb... the attacker is not going to run after him... It'll give the defender time to escape the attacker.

Missile/bomb or whatever. The point defence, should be able to take care of it.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Unbalanceable weapon.

Either the bomb would disable things too well, and be hilariously overpowered, or it would not disable them much at all, and be garbage. And I can't think of any way to create a middle ground.

Players are COMPLETELY capable of jumping in with the smallest and cheapest ship capable of doing this, and then when everything is disabled, landing heavies in the instance. Anything under 10 seconds would be pointless, and anything over 10 seconds, or capable of stripping shields, would be a death sentence.

 

[coca_fr]

Missile/bomb or whatever. The point defence, should be able to take care of it.

Yes but it would occurs some EMP wave damge that could be dangerous for your ship as well.

Point Defence are too strong right now and missiles/torpedo so useless. Electronic countermeasure are completly useless because Point Defence are so strong...

If you shoot a nuclear bomb, ok you destroyed it... but you still suffer the consequences. EMP bomb could be something dirty.

I don't think it should be something that you want to destroy... You simply wants to go as far of it as you can.

I like the idea of a one shot defensive weapon in order to escape a battle.

This weapon could be forbidden in many system / powers... so if you use it you become wanted. It could be a dirty weapon.

An idea would be that Electronic countermeasure could be a counter weapon to EMP bomb. Indeed Electronic countermeasure would spread an opposite polarity wave to EMP bomb making it completly useless.
--> This would make Electronic countermeasure usefull again !

EMP Bomb would then become a great defensive weapon that can be countered by Electronic countermeasure only or by running away.

What do you think guys ?

 

[Arry]

Yes but it would occurs some EMP wave damge that could be dangerous for your ship as well.

Point Defence are too strong right now and missiles/torpedo so useless. Electronic countermeasure are completly useless because Point Defence are so strong...

If you shoot a nuclear bomb, ok you destroyed it... but you still suffer the consequences. EMP bomb could be something dirty.

I don't think it should be something that you want to destroy... You simply wants to go as far of it as you can.

I like the idea of a one shot defensive weapon in order to escape a battle.

This weapon could be forbidden in many system / powers... so if you use it you become wanted. It could be a dirty weapon.

An idea would be that Electronic countermeasure could be a counter weapon to EMP bomb. Indeed Electronic countermeasure would spread an opposite polarity wave to EMP bomb making it completly useless.
--> This would make Electronic countermeasure usefull again !

EMP Bomb would then become a great defensive weapon that can be countered by Electronic countermeasure only or by running away.

What do you think guys ?

Everything you speak of here, is dependent on range. I would say that you need to limit the 'fallout range' of the pulse. I would say that 500m would be more than enough. That would take out the thrusters of a running ship, but could still have many working modules up the front of the ship. I would also say, that this is a one shot per ship deal. You get to use it once and have to re-dock for another round.

As to the P.D. being overpowered? Nope. In a thousand years from now, I want a missile defence system; that works. I carry two, any time I can.

 

[coca_fr]

Everything you speak of here, is dependent on range. I would say that you need to limit the 'fallout range' of the pulse. I would say that 500m would be more than enough. That would take out the thrusters of a running ship, but could still have many working modules up the front of the ship. I would also say, that this is a one shot per ship deal. You get to use it once and have to re-dock for another round.

As to the P.D. being overpowered? Nope. In a thousand years from now, I want a missile defence system; that works. I carry two, any time I can.

Indeed i now agree that it's need to be a 1 shop weapon like torpedo. Indeed 500m is a good range. So maybe higher class can simply deals more malfunctions into ships. Range and malfunction is just a matter of tweaks from FDev.

Personally i think 500m is short. It's really to avoid and you are often at 2km distance when the enemy take distance from you. So a better class for more range effect make sense. After all a bigger weapon slot means a bigger effect. 2km is not that much as if you see the bomb droping you have 5s to run away... and you can easily avoid it's effect, giving time to the defender to jump to another system.

They already added a special effect called Target Lock Breaker that is kind of disabling ships...

I edited my original post to make more clear with the current idea of the weapon :

Name : Magnetic Electromagnetic Pulse Bomb
Damage type : Electronic
Damage : none
Ammo : 1
Effect : When explode generate malfunction into all surrounding ship EMP Bomb range.
Range : Class 4 (2km), Class 3 (1.5Km), Class 2 (1 km), Class 1 (500m)
Timing : You would have to drop the EMP bomb then run away as far as you can, because you'll be affected by the EMP bomb as well. 5s later its explode. The closer you are, the more it creates malfunction into your ship.

Can you shoot the EMP Bomb ?
If you shoot at it, it explodes and do unstable disabling wave "damage". As the EMP wave could be concentrated in some point it could generate heats in modules/ships.

Couldn't it be exploited ?
Not so much as it's clearly a defensive weapon.

It is a one shop powerfull weapon. It's not going to completly disable your ship and your shield. The bomb will create reccuring malfunction into your ship. It won't disable your shield and reboot your ship. It'll only make it useless the time the defender just run away. Indeed if the defender flee straight in front of him and the attacker is behind him and he drop an EMP bomb... the attacker is not going to run after him, he'll just try to avoid him as fast as he can... It'll give the defender time to escape the attacker.

It could of course also be used for piracy and terrorism. But it's a new weapon and be can be fun.

So it's a powerfull weapon with no counter weapon ?
Not at all ! Electronic countermeasure could be a counter weapon to EMP bomb. Indeed Electronic countermeasure would spread an opposite polarity wave to EMP bomb making it completly useless.
--> This would make Electronic countermeasure usefull again !

EMP Bomb would then become a great defensive weapon that can be countered by Electronic countermeasure only or by running away.

 

[DocLooshkin]

Hello, Coca_fr.

This has been suggested a number of times in the past few years, in various incarnations. I'm not sure there's a general consensus, but there is certainly widespread feeling that whatever FD did with the idea, it would (a) be fairly hellish to balance and (b) quite likely see far more use by attackers than defenders.

I'm not inherently against the idea, although I agree there are some definite pitfalls. I've previously suggested that it have a built-in limiter that prevents it from being detonated within 50KM of any stations - that still seems very wise. Then again, it should probably be no bang within 100KM of any structure, these days, just to be on the safe side.

I also suggested a more toned-down 'Nebula Bomb' variant.

Considering ED today, it would be large, expensive, power-hungry and heavy as hell (so, only one shot per-ship), might need to be launched only from an SLF-bay and have the same charge-time (and perhaps mass-lock limitation) as an FSD (thinking of where the Nebula effect might be drawn from).

It would instantly fill a 50KM volume with an extremely-slowly-dispersing cloud of charged plasma that would push and spin all ships on detonation - and after that, would continuously and randomly push all ships slightly off-course, reduce visibility to near-zero, completely jam all FSDs and shields, partially jam all sensors and amplify the chances of all malfunctions by an order of magnitude, until dispersing.

Also, anyone attempting any form of shipboard synthesis, fabrication or repair should have a small, random chance of irreversibly triggering the ship's auto-destruct countdown. Whether it would actually go off or just malfunction is another throw of the dice. Toffee Crisp, anyone?

In terms of play, I'd be hoping to experience something reminiscent of the nebula scenes from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - all tense hunting and escaping, random glitches and breakdowns - and utter panic if anyone actually gets close enough to shoot at you.

Whether it would actually play out like that for most, is something I can't honestly guess in advance - it would all lie in how the sensors would have to intermittently 'blip' enemies, which would be essential to avoid being too OP in favour of escapees.

The biggest downside of such a device would be that "players" with modified, cheating game-clients would have an incredible advantage over everyone else. Then again, such inadequates presumably do anyway, so I've no idea how much of a factor that should be in anyone's thinking.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Hello, Coca_fr.

This has been suggested a number of times in the past few years, in various incarnations. I'm not sure there's a general consensus, but there is certainly widespread feeling that whatever FD did with the idea, it would (a) be fairly hellish to balance and (b) quite likely see far more use by attackers than defenders.

I'm not inherently against the idea, although I agree there are some definite pitfalls. I've previously suggested that it have a built-in limiter that prevents it from being detonated within 50KM of any stations - that still seems very wise. Then again, it should probably be no bang within 100KM of any structure, these days, just to be on the safe side.

I also suggested a more toned-down 'Nebula Bomb' variant.

Considering ED today, it would be large, expensive, power-hungry and heavy as hell (so, only one shot per-ship), might need to be launched only from an SLF-bay and have the same charge-time (and perhaps mass-lock limitation) as an FSD (thinking of where the Nebula effect might be drawn from).

It would instantly fill a 50KM volume with an extremely-slowly-dispersing cloud of charged plasma that would push and spin all ships on detonation - and after that, would continuously and randomly push all ships slightly off-course, reduce visibility to near-zero, completely jam all FSDs and shields, partially jam all sensors and amplify the chances of all malfunctions by an order of magnitude, until dispersing.

Also, anyone attempting any form of shipboard synthesis, fabrication or repair should have a small, random chance of irreversibly triggering the ship's auto-destruct countdown. Whether it would actually go off or just malfunction is another throw of the dice. Toffee Crisp, anyone?

In terms of play, I'd be hoping to experience something reminiscent of the nebula scenes from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - all tense hunting and escaping, random glitches and breakdowns - and utter panic if anyone actually gets close enough to shoot at you.

Whether it would actually play out like that for most, is something I can't honestly guess in advance - it would all lie in how the sensors would have to intermittently 'blip' enemies, which would be essential to avoid being too OP in favour of escapees.

The biggest downside of such a device would be that "players" with modified, cheating game-clients would have an incredible advantage over everyone else. Then again, such inadequates presumably do anyway, so I've no idea how much of a factor that should be in anyone's thinking.

That idea is almost idiotic. The parts about triggering self-destruct especially, for any reason. That makes no sense.

Having things that cannot be used near stations because they are too powerful? Well, that probably means they're too powerful anywhere else, as well. You seem to be trying to completely devalue all shield tanking, without doing ANYTHING about armor stacking.

The nebula bomb idea has merit, though. A device that disables ALL targeting for EVERYONE, turning all weapons fixed would be quite interesting. Perhaps it mounts in SLF bays as a one-off with no reload? And have it optionally travel in a direction, but with a huge range (inherit ship velocity, huge range so the motion doesn't matter much). The ONLY target of anyone in the cloud would be the moving or stationary device generating the cloud.

Not sure if it should scramble FSD or not, though. Probably not, since if the range is large, flying out would be boring. And in that amount of time, you could just throttle up and log in a legit manner to bail.

But as actual usage? Anyone who wants to target anything would have to fly to the device and destroy it. Meanwhile, anyone who wants the device alive has to only sit near it and attack by visual the people who try and destroy the device. Hilarity ensues, in some likelihood?

But lumping EVERYTHING together into one magic device is really bad balancing.

 

[coca_fr]

Your nebula bomb idea is some kind of huge chaff bomb ?

Well it's could be an interesting idea for an other weapon suggestion. All gimballed and turret would be impacted unable to shoot anything, turning all weapons to fix.

Imagine you bomb that in a CZ... What a mess with all NPCs unable to shoot... and for you all of them are easy targets with your railguns and plasma accelerator...

If you were to mix Nebula Bomb with EMP bomb what a mess, but it would be quite fun :-D

I don't think this kind of weapons should last long or it could be abused really much.

 

[DocLooshkin]

That idea is almost idiotic. The parts about triggering self-destruct especially, for any reason. That makes no sense.

Having things that cannot be used near stations because they are too powerful? Well, that probably means they're too powerful anywhere else, as well. You seem to be trying to completely devalue all shield tanking, without doing ANYTHING about armor stacking.

The nebula bomb idea has merit, though. A device that disables ALL targeting for EVERYONE, turning all weapons fixed would be quite interesting. Perhaps it mounts in SLF bays as a one-off with no reload? And have it optionally travel in a direction, but with a huge range (inherit ship velocity, huge range so the motion doesn't matter much). The ONLY target of anyone in the cloud would be the moving or stationary device generating the cloud.

Not sure if it should scramble FSD or not, though. Probably not, since if the range is large, flying out would be boring. And in that amount of time, you could just throttle up and log in a legit manner to bail.

But as actual usage? Anyone who wants to target anything would have to fly to the device and destroy it. Meanwhile, anyone who wants the device alive has to only sit near it and attack by visual the people who try and destroy the device. Hilarity ensues, in some likelihood?

But lumping EVERYTHING together into one magic device is really bad balancing.

Hello, Mr Smoo.

Only "almost" idiotic? I'm clearly not trying hard enough.

The self-destruct thing makes perfect sense for fans of a particular SF TV show (I like being mildly obscure). I've used it here as a way of adding risk to something that players don't normally have to worry about in a dangerous sense - repairing, rearming and SLF-respawning all suddenly become a live threat to the ship. The key psychological concept is tension - and this adds a little bit of cognitive dissonance to the other stressors in the Nebula Bomb experience.

The weapon is intended to be ridiculously OP, but also ridiculously impractical and potentially just as deadly to it's wielders. It's a last-resort defensive weapon for traders who believe they're otherwise likely to die. Anyone can use the thing, but the idea is that they won't want to, not if they can find any other way to survive. I've suggested keeping it well away from stations, etc, simply to avoid it's most obvious use as a trolling tool in Open.

The technical concept is a really big bomb - it launches, goes bang and disintegrates into a cloud of quintillions of tiny disruptive particles. Whether these might be some form of chaff, entangled exotic particles from a nearby sun, something weird from hyperspace or a bit of Thargoid or anti-Thargoid nanotechnology is a choice for FD, if they care about that particular detail.

I've never given any thought to shield-tanking vs armour-tanking strategies, in relation to anything at all, ever - but there's no reason why an appropriate excuse can't be devised for disrupting armour-tanks as well.

Perhaps the bomb's mysterious and exotic charged particles increase the weak nuclear force just enough to make armour more brittle and prone to shattering. Or perhaps the cloud naturally forms SASER packets that discharge into a ship whenever it's struck by something external, carried in by the higher-energy vibrations of weapons and collisions, bypassing everyone's armour entirely.

The idea is that the weapon temporarily disrupts all systems on all ships as much as possible, while still leaving them spaceworthy. It's meant to be a rare and expensive great leveller, where attackers are very surprised and every side is suddenly in equal danger, no matter how strong they were when the fight started.

Either side might decide to try and win the engagement, no matter how underpowered they are, since everyone is equally defenceless - or both sides might sensibly decide to run away, as quickly as their malfunctioning thrusters will allow.

 

[coca_fr]

I saw that EMP bomb counter measure is coming against Thargoids EMP weapon.

It could be used against our this EMP bomb i propose.

I think it's a cool idea.