Night Vision Mode Change

[CMDR GRAEME COWELL]

Hi
Firstly like the idea of night vision... but not in its current form.

Night vision should be like passive IR/Thermal Imaging, show temp difference so you see a heat bloom from a ships drives, etc When they are somewhere cool/cold,it is passive so no harm turning it on but it is not super-man good, you would need practice reading it. The blooms are smaller, dimmer for cooler ships, brighter for hot ships, installations etc.turning does not make you easier to see.

The Current wireframe-looking-god-vison should be RADAR show everything, But at a price because it is active you are now easier to detect for everyone else.
So ok for in the no fire zone so you don't scratch up that orbital that is in the shadow of the planet etc. but not the best choice for the stealth data acquisition mission.

Thoughts ?

 

[and_ft]

Agreed. Good suggestion.

On a side note, I had Night Vision in the army 20 years ago, which worked better than what we have in the 33rd Century

 

[CMDR GRAEME COWELL]

Agreed. Good suggestion.

On a side note, I had Night Vision in the army 20 years ago, which worked better than what we have in the 33rd Century

I concur even the old AN/PVS-4 was better functionally that the 1 colour wire-frame we have

 

[Rubbernuke]

The idea itself is good but I disagree slightly with how it should be done in game.

Personally, FD can:

Reduce the current night vision effective range down to 1Km or less

Scrap the current outline effect and use the mining asteroid scan and show pixelated overlays of objects- so you can 'see' objects but they are of a low resolution (so they can't be easily used to attack with, they just show something is there). Drive / thruster plumes could also show here. You could also use the mining scan mechanics so that you have to actively 'ping' an area and not have a passive always on feature. The resolution could be tied to sensor grade: so A grade is pixelated but OK, while E is Duplo Lego time.

You could combine both: have a close in passive night vision (like now) but beyond a certain range you need a dedicated module.

 

[Old Duck]

I hate the TRON outline effect. As someone who use to enjoy stealth as a PvP tactic, this night vision feels like a cheat, kinda like those cheats that lets players see other players through walls.

Night Vision can bug off.

 

[Para Handy]

..........
Night vision should be like passive IR/Thermal Imaging, .......

Thoughts ?

Why should it be a thermal version? E D to me simulates image intensification equipment. FLIR type would be useless as it can't be used for terrain topography, whereas image intensification of the available light can.

 

[Old Duck]

Why should it be a thermal version? E D to me simulates image intensification equipment. FLIR type would be useless as it can't be used for terrain topography, whereas image intensification of the available light can.

We had image intensification before the (whatever number) update that gave us Night Vision. Everyone (but me) complained about it and that's why we were given overly dark planets and Elite 1984 Vision.

BTW, I don't use NV. I just turn on my lights and crank up the gamma - image intensification, baby!

 

[Rubbernuke]

A while ago I posted this too as a hard counter to night vision:

Dazzle shell experimental whites out night vision like flashbang

As the title suggests, could dazzle shell have a side effect of wiping out night vision for a short period (with maybe a cooldown period too)? Night vision makes combat much easier (to identify gloomy ships by eye is much more difficult). It might have interesting tactical implications (suddenly...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[CMDR GRAEME COWELL]

We had image intensification before the (whatever number) update that gave us Night Vision. Everyone (but me) complained about it and that's why we were given overly dark planets and Elite 1984 Vision.

BTW, I don't use NV. I just turn on my lights and crank up the gamma - image intensification, baby!

IR, Thermal Imaging, ambient light intensification, handwavium-magnification call it what you like the current Night Vision while awesome for not running into terrain etc, needs to be balanced, a passive stealth mode that is usable but takes practice and is not god-like, and something similar to what we have now, but with a caveat (turn this on for super enhanced low light vision but ... it is an active/emitting system and will make you show up on sensors earlier/further so smugglers ahmm "relocation specialists" like myself can stealth it up, and people can use dont-crash-into-the-orbital-in-the-dark-mode but it is not an option for stealth,

So CMDR Sneaky who is hiding powered down on SYS-123 A2, has to be searched for, not just "I'll use the wireframe god-vision"

edit: If CMDR Obvious wants to use active mode (whatever it is called) his ship stats pinging/pulsing whatever so O'l Sneaky can decide to fight or run or stay put and hope for the best

 

[Rubbernuke]

IR, Thermal Imaging, ambient light intensification, handwavium-magnification call it what you like the current Night Vision while awesome for not running into terrain etc, needs to be balanced, a passive stealth mode that is usable but takes practice and is not god-like, and something similar to what we have now, but with a caveat (turn this on for super enhanced low light vision but ... it is an active/emitting system and will make you show up on sensors earlier/further so smugglers ahmm "relocation specialists" like myself can stealth it up, and people can use dont-crash-into-the-orbital-in-the-dark-mode but it is not an option for stealth,

So CMDR Sneaky who is hiding powered down on SYS-123 A2, has to be searched for, not just "I'll use the wireframe god-vision"

In my head I wanted some grand union of sensor grade, stealth type armour, unique battle sensors (active and passive) to make up something really fun.

If it was suggested I imagine you'd have the giant whine fest just like the one that killed gimbal and sensor relationships.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

What I'd appreciate would be a more realistic Night Vision.

• amplify everything (incl. Galaxy backdrop or in-System Planets etc.)
• Cockpit HUD and Lighting enters NVG Mode during its use
• best performance in dark environment
• worst performance against bright environment (overbright lighting effects)
• overall, effectively using NVG in certain conditions should require/build some experience and present a bit of a challenge

 

[GroG79]

heat bloom from a ships drives, etc

I had Night Vision in the army 20 years ago, which worked better than what we have in the 33rd Century

There is no air in space; you can only radiate heat in the Infra Red spectrum. Hence we use heatsinks.
Since IR is a photon and travels the speed of light you will not be able to detect it unless it hits a surface or hits your sensors directly. (Yes we can see laser beams from the side too... Which is not possible unless there is dust/gas to reflect the (laser) light)

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

a hard counter to night vision:

, stealth type armour

I love the idea of Dazzle shell whiting out the night vision. That would be a really cool idea and give it a bit more purpose. I think an appropriate cool down would be needed so it cant be spammed too hard.

The Armor was actually where my mind went while reading this. We currently have Lightweight, reinforced, military, mirrored, and reactive surface. I think they should add a stealth option to this list, or add stealth functionality to the mirrored or reactive surface. It could make ships not show up on the night vision unless within a certain range, or alternatively make the ship appear as a blob that is bigger than its actual size. Could be very interesting

 

[Rubbernuke]

I love the idea of Dazzle shell whiting out the night vision. That would be a really cool idea and give it a bit more purpose. I think an appropriate cool down would be needed so it cant be spammed too hard.

The Armor was actually where my mind went while reading this. We currently have Lightweight, reinforced, military, mirrored, and reactive surface. I think they should add a stealth option to this list, or add stealth functionality to the mirrored or reactive surface. It could make ships not show up on the night vision unless within a certain range, or alternatively make the ship appear as a blob that is bigger than its actual size. Could be very interesting

You could really go all in- how about an armour experimental stealth coating that makes you harder to spot (at the cost of making armour more fragile?)

 

[JetsonRING]

Firstly like the idea of night vision... but not in its current form.
Night vision should be like passive IR/Thermal Imaging, show temp difference so you see a heat bloom from a ships drives, etc

But night-vision isn't just Infra-Red imaging. It is also light amplification, which is what I think FDev was going for, and it works. To your point though, an either separate or combined IR imager, maybe using a different color to differentiate the images is a good idea.

 

[Siobhan]

You could really go all in- how about an armour experimental stealth coating that makes you harder to spot (at the cost of making armour more fragile?)

NPCs would probably ignore the stealth aspect, so against them it'd just be weaker armour... not really a problem for many I guess, but for some...

 

[Rubbernuke]

NPCs would probably ignore the stealth aspect, so against them it'd just be weaker armour... not really a problem for many I guess, but for some...

NPCs use vision cones to 'see'- it would be trivial to have NPCs tuned to reduce sight distances and make stealth armour and / or effects worth it.

 

[leeG]

Light intensifier tubes (starlight scopes) are passive devices and intensify very low levels of ambient light to provide “night vision.”

Infrared or thermal imagers detect temperature differences. These are passive devices. You need to match the background temperature to hid from IR devices. This is the model Elite uses for its “radar” and why there is silent running and heat sinks are so important.

Radar is an active system. You bounce electromagnetic waves off an object and locate it by detecting the wave reflections. If you want to hid from radar you need to make sure no energy gets reflected back to the radar receiver. This can be done by shaping the structure so the wave is reflected away from the receiver and/or by absorbing the energy into the structure so none can be reflected back.

Visual is generally passive, where you try to match the visual spectrum colors and patterns of your surroundings in order to blend into the the background. You can also apply color patterns to your structure to mask or confuse it’s observed shape making it difficult to identify what specific ship it is. There is an active aspect to visual detection. Using lights to illuminate and find objects and using smoke or other obscurants to hide an object.

I like the current implementation of night vision. Works for me as a miner and trader operating in dark rings and landing on the dark side of planets.

Not surprising that an enhanced visual spectrum device is defeating IR spectrum background temperature matching stealth. You guys can dumb it down all you want for gameplay just as long as it doesn’t cause me problems in the rings or landing on planets.