Horizons No Bounty??

Anyplace??

Ok, this video answers some questions but makes more.

I now understand how the NPC's get "UNLOCKED" and even "UN-DESIGNATED as HOSTILE".

They get out of the range of my low level sensors.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3UfwiG4zNJfdHJoUkJ6aEVVMXM

What I don't understand is why I didn't get the bounty. It is about 3 minutes.

I think that the first time you lost the NPC it was as you thought that it just went beyond the range of your sensors. It looks like the second time the NPC might have dropped a heatsink, as they become unresolved, a yellow 'flashing' icon, but obviously still on your sensors, so in range.

The only suggestion I have re the bounty not being awarded for the kill is that you had not hit the NPC within the last 10 seconds or so before it was destroyed. It's not enough to just hit it the once (which to be honest I didn't see if you did), you need to have hit it in the run-up to it going pop. I think it's 10 seconds, but stand to be corrected on that.

Edit: Just to add, you seem to refrain from shooting at it while you are KWS'ing it. As long as the ships scan has completed and you can see in your HUD it is wanted, you can shoot at it while you are running the KWS scan. The worst that can happen is that the ship is destroyed before the scan completes, but you will still get bounties from the system you are in, just not from other jurisdictions.
 
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The only suggestion I have re the bounty not being awarded for the kill is that you had not hit the NPC within the last 10 seconds or so before it was destroyed. It's not enough to just hit it the once (which to be honest I didn't see if you did), you need to have hit it in the run-up to it going pop. I think it's 10 seconds, but stand to be corrected on that.

Edit: Just to add, you seem to refrain from shooting at it while you are KWS'ing it. As long as the ships scan has completed and you can see in your HUD it is wanted, you can shoot at it while you are running the KWS scan. The worst that can happen is that the ship is destroyed before the scan completes, but you will still get bounties from the system you are in, just not from other jurisdictions.

Re: The last 10 seconds. Hard to see in the posted video, but in the higher definition original it is clear that my 3 AUTOMATIC small MC turrets and both medium Automatic turrets are firing right up to the announcement "TARGET DESTROYED".

Since there was no debris, I am thinking that what got him was the heat of the Star since his shields were gone and he was down to like 10% armor as he went across that face of the star.

I only have one small gimbaled MC that I have full control of. All my other weapons are turrets set to automatic.
I have deliberately set things up so that when I first start to fight, all that I use is the 3 small Turrets and the 1 small gimbaled until I have the scan. When I can see that the turrets are firing, I don't fire the gimballed until I have the scan and I actually now try to save it for when the others are reloading so I still have something to shoot with.
Lost my first two tries at a bounty because I was set up with all turrets in auto in FG1 and as soon as the first shot hit me, they all went off at the same time and wasted the NPC in less than 10 seconds.
 
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Lost my first two tries at a bounty because I was set up with all turrets in auto in FG1 and as soon as the first shot hit me, they all went off at the same time and wasted the NPC in less than 10 seconds.

Doesn't matter how fast you take out a wanted ship, you will still get the bounty. And it doesn't matter how the ship is destroyed once you are in combat with it. If you have hit it in the last 10 seconds or so you will get the bounty.

The KWS only gets you credits from other systems, you automatically get any bounty payable from the system you are in for destroying a wanted ship, and if you hadn't scanned the ship to determine it was wanted then you would have got a bounty on you.

Hard to see from the video whether your turrets were hitting the target, but if you are concerned, file a bug report.
 
Ok. I just looked at the video again, and did a bit of research...

At about 44 seconds in, you see a weapons hit animation on your enemy target in the HUD. That is the only time you see that animation, and my research was to go to a nav beacon, shoot a wanted ship, and then watch the animation as the police also shot them. The only time you see a weapon strike animation on the HUD target is when your weapons hit the target. They can be being hammered by other ships, but the HUD target doesn't show the animation, only hits from your weapons.

So I'm afraid that your weapons were not hitting your target, and since it was destroyed by the police (you can see his hull is being destroyed incrementally by weapon fire, not suddenly by flying into the sun) about a minute after you last hit him, that is why you didn't get the bounty.
 
It must also be remembered,, I normally refuse to fight in inhabited systems. This one was a fluke. I dropped out to close and save the game to answer a phone call. Didn't even know I was being tracked. Had not been interdicted yet.
Since I am normally not in an inhabited system I want the KWS to at least collect the cost of my ammo. I am greedy.

I still don't understand why there was no debris..
 
if you watch the ammo in your multi-cannons, only the bottom one fires, and it stopped firing 20 seconds before the target got killed by the Feds, so you don't get the credit for the kill. You need to stay closer to the target so that you guns keep firing. Basically, you're too far away.
 
if you watch the ammo in your multi-cannons, only the bottom one fires, and it stopped firing 20 seconds before the target got killed by the Feds, so you don't get the credit for the kill. You need to stay closer to the target so that you guns keep firing. Basically, you're too far away.

No. He was in range 3.47km.. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3UfwiG4zNJfTlNNS29ZbnJ4MDg

BUT, My guns had indeed stopped shooting at least 16 seconds because I changed fire groups and he did not hit me so the MCT's in auto didn't start shooting at him.

I did fire the gimbaled one but I didn't hit him.

So. Lessons learned.
1. I have got to get the "A" level sensors as soon as I can because when he gets out of range of the sensors he gets un-locked/non-hostile until he hits me again: see #2
2. #1. means that the MCT's in auto will not shoot.
3. Even if he is locked and hostile, if I change fire groups the MCT's, even the ones that were shooting, will not shoot again until he hits me. That is not how I was lead to believe the turrets would work. I understood that as long as they didn't change FIRE BUTTONS when I changed fire groups, the ones (3 small) on FB1 would keep firing. Clearly they didn't.

In another thread someone suggested I buy the gimbaled one and set the rest to TARGET ONLY so I could fire the gimbaled one and get the TARGET ONLY ones to start shooting. Boy was that a fiasco. Unfortunately I didn't get video.That does work but only for the ones on the same fire button as the gimbaled one. The ones on the other fire button never did shoot so I had to get the kill using only the 3 small MCTs and the small gimbaled MC.

When he was locked even if not hostile, all I had to do was fire the gimbaled a few rounds that didn't even have to go in the targets direction and the 3 MCT's would kick in and track him.

So. Possible solution that should work with my playing style, is to make a fire group with all the MC's on FB1 and put the turrets in target only. Leave the KWS on FB2. Get the scan then fire the gimbaled which would get all the turrets going and they would keep going as long as he was in range and locked. All the more reason to upgrade the sensors as soon as I can.

Thank you all..
 
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A grade sensors aren't really necessary. Yes, they have a bit more range, but they are very much more expensive. I use C grade sensors on all my ships. (There was talk of tying gimbal weapon performance to sensor grade, but that hasn't happened.) Of course, feel free to get them if you think they will help.

If a hostile ship drops off your sensors (or drops a heat sink so that you lose lock for a moment), they do not become non-hostile. A hostile ship will be hostile for the whole engagement (or instance if you like). All you need to do is re-target them and they will immediately be hostile again.

That said, if you lose lock on a target, turrets will stop firing. As soon as you re-lock, press fire again and they will continue where they left off (assuming set to Target mode in Functions). Note, you do have to press fire again. Once a turret stops, it needs to be triggered manually again, there is no automatic mode, like any weapon, it needs a trigger push to start, but unlike the others, it doesn't stop once you release the trigger.

If you have two fire groups, and put your turrets on the same trigger for both fire groups, they will continue to fire when you swap fire groups without having to press fire again. I only have one pair of turrets on one of my ships, but that is how they are set up, and it works fine, so I don't know why that didn't work for you. :)

Just be aware that the way turrets work, if you have them set to Target mode (I have never used the other modes, but assume they are the same), then to get them to fire you must a) have something targeted, and b) press fire once. They will only stop when they lose the target. If you want them to stop you must change to a fire group where they are not set up or retract hard points.
 
A grade sensors aren't really necessary. Yes, they have a bit more range, but they are very much more expensive. I use C grade sensors on all my ships. (There was talk of tying gimbal weapon performance to sensor grade, but that hasn't happened.) Of course, feel free to get them if you think they will help.

If a hostile ship drops off your sensors (or drops a heat sink so that you lose lock for a moment), they do not become non-hostile. A hostile ship will be hostile for the whole engagement (or instance if you like). All you need to do is re-target them and they will immediately be hostile again.

That said, if you lose lock on a target, turrets will stop firing. As soon as you re-lock, press fire again and they will continue where they left off (assuming set to Target mode in Functions). Note, you do have to press fire again. Once a turret stops, it needs to be triggered manually again, there is no automatic mode, like any weapon, it needs a trigger push to start, but unlike the others, it doesn't stop once you release the trigger.

If you have two fire groups, and put your turrets on the same trigger for both fire groups, they will continue to fire when you swap fire groups without having to press fire again. I only have one pair of turrets on one of my ships, but that is how they are set up, and it works fine, so I don't know why that didn't work for you. :)

Just be aware that the way turrets work, if you have them set to Target mode (I have never used the other modes, but assume they are the same), then to get them to fire you must a) have something targeted, and b) press fire once. They will only stop when they lose the target. If you want them to stop you must change to a fire group where they are not set up or retract hard points.

Watch more of my videos. It is clear that they do go from HOSTILE to NON-HOSTILE if they get out of sensor range. With "C" level (5.8km) they may not often get out of range and since your playing style seems to be to actively look for things to kill, "C" level works for you, but "E" level (4.64) is only slightly longer than the range of the MC's so when the punk runs to give his shields time to recharge, he gets out of range and UNLOCKED and Non-hostile.

You may need to try them in FIRE AT WILL. The TRIGGER will do nothing. They will not shoot anything until you have been hit. After that first hit on you they will shoot at ANY ship in range that is HOSTILE to you and from everything I have read, (I have ZERO experience with multiple hostils and I hope to keep it that way.) they either shoot at the last ship that hit you,, or the closest hostile ship. The up side is that once they start shooting, they keep shooting. The downside is that once they start shooting, they keep shooting. You don't get to pick the target.

When they are in TARGET ONLY, they will only shoot at LOCKED HOSTILE targets when you pull the trigger they are assigned to and then you can release the trigger and they will keep shooting at the target. If the locked target is not HOSTILE, they WILL NOT SHOOT.

There is more than one thread where people talk/complain about these behaviors and put forth their strategies for how to get the turrets to do what they want them to do.


When they are in FIXED they will shoot at anything any time the trigger is pulled but you have to hold the trigger.

So, for my playing style, in which I am only going to fight when I am attacked, and my current weapons load, it seems like a good idea to keep the punk locked and showing as hostile at the longest range I can. So, I will put on "A" level sensors when I have the CR's. First priority is an "A" level PP then an "A" level FSD.

I am also going to try the all weapons on FB1 with the turrets in Target ONLY and the KWS on FB2 and not pull the trigger until I have the KWS results.
 
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since your playing style seems to be to actively look for things to kill,

With all due respect, you know nothing about me or my playing style...

I've simply tried to help you out with your questions, and your problems. You are having problems where I do not seem to have them.

I can assure you that once an NPC is hostile it remains so in the instance. Your video doesn't show any different, it's hostile, off your scanner, unresolved (flashing yellow which doesn't mean not hostile, just unresolved), and then as soon as it resolves again it's hostile (red).

Anyway, best of luck figuring the game out.
 
I thanked every one, that included you, for their assistance.

Your claim that "once hostile, always hostile" just doesn't jibe with what I have repeatedly seen when I am in a fight in anarchy with no cops firing at the punk.

Yes, they get into that blinking as you called it, unresolved state, but when they come back into range they show as non-hostile.

If they were HOSTILE, then my voice command "PUNK" would lock them again because it is set to the "H" key which is described as following this action order for locking targets:

1. incoming missiles locked on you
2. ships that have hit you in the last few seconds
3. ships that have fired at you in the last few seconds
4. hostile ships with weapons deployed
5. hostile ships.

I have repeatedly had the "PUNK" command fail and had to bring them into the 10 degree circle in front of me and resort to the generic "LOCK" command linked to "SELECT TARGET AHEAD" to get them locked again.
I have repeatedly had to wait for them to hit me before the turrets in FIRE AT WILL would start shooting because the trigger did nothing.
 
I thanked every one, that included you, for their assistance.

I apologize if I came off as being short.

The problem is, every time someone offers you suggestions for why you are having problems, you argue that it's wrong and that something else has been going on. I don't wish to sound rude, but you are doing stuff wrong, and that is why you are having the problems. The game is simply not as difficult as you are making it out to be.

Your claim that "once hostile, always hostile" just doesn't jibe with what I have repeatedly seen when I am in a fight in anarchy with no cops firing at the punk.

Yes, they get into that blinking as you called it, unresolved state, but when they come back into range they show as non-hostile.

Ok. Just look at your video again. At around 30 seconds the NPC attacks you, becomes red (hostile) on the scanner. You target them. They indeed fly to the extremities of your scanner, but they don't drop off, you lose lock on them because they drop a heat sink. You can see a flashing yellow unresolved signal meaning your scanner knows something is there, but not enough info to know what. That flashing unresolved signal stays on your scanner, doesn't go out of range, and at 1 minute 8 seconds it resolves again as hostile.

If they were HOSTILE, then my voice command "PUNK" would lock them again because it is set to the "H" key which is described as following this action order for locking targets:

1. incoming missiles locked on you
2. ships that have hit you in the last few seconds
3. ships that have fired at you in the last few seconds
4. hostile ships with weapons deployed
5. hostile ships.

I have repeatedly had the "PUNK" command fail and had to bring them into the 10 degree circle in front of me and resort to the generic "LOCK" command linked to "SELECT TARGET AHEAD" to get them locked again.

And this is where (IMO), you are having the problem, which you claim is voice attack not working well. You should not use "Target Highest Threat", just "Target Next Hostile". Since you only ever have one hostile (your claim from earlier), that will always target the one red ship on your scanner. You will probably find that more effective. And certainly, using "Target Next Hostile" you don't need to have the target in front of you. In any case, pretty much as soon as the target resolved again you got a lock on them, so no big deal.


I have repeatedly had to wait for them to hit me before the turrets in FIRE AT WILL would start shooting because the trigger did nothing.

If having turrets set to fire at will is giving you a problem, don't use it. Again, unless you are in a big ship trying to fend off a wing of hostiles it's not really useful. You are trying to shoot a single hostile that you will always try to have targeted. Use targeted mode and just press the trigger for the turrets once you have them targeted.

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On another note, regarding being too far from the target. I'm going to agree with d8veh. While you may technically be in range for the weapons, you are close to the limit, and that's why even when they are firing they are not hitting. Yes, turrets are very forgiving, you don't have to try to point at the target, although that obviously depends on the hard point placement and whether the turrets can actually see the target from where they are. Try using your throttle a little more. For most of your video, you are flying slowly in reverse, getting further away from your target who is already kilometers away. Try to get closer, your weapons will be more effective.

You are free to take my remarks as attacking you. They are not. You seem to want to engage in this aspect of the game, defending yourself when you are attacked, and thats great. You seem to be getting targets that are of a manageable rank so why not, combat is supposed to be a fun part of the game. Perhaps google some Youtube videos on combat (if you haven't already), and look at how others do things, it might give you some ideas. But as I said above, sitting still while the other ship flies around you and away from you isn't the most effective tactic, even with turreted weapons.

Having watched your video many times, here is what happened:

1. You dropped into the instance with your opponent.

2. Your opponent started shooting at you, and you targeted them.

3. You shoot at your opponent, and hit them a few times. (At 44 seconds.)

4. You think your opponent boosted out of range. They did not. You are flying backwards away from your opponent at nearly 200 meters per second. However, it never actually leaves your scanner.

5. Your opponent drops a heat sink causing their temperature to drop (57 seconds) and your scanners can no longer resolve it. It becomes flashing yellow. It never drops off the scanner, it is there, flashing and jumping up and down. When its temperature rises again it resolves again immediately as hostile (1 min 7 sec).

6. You lock onto the target again, and proceed with the scan. You are still flying backwards, increasing the distance between you and your target. You say that you are shooting at your target and "probably hitting him" (around 1 min 30 sec). You are not hitting him, look at the target hologram in the HUD, at no point does a weapons strike show up. (This is why you got no bounty, you only actually hit your target once, and that was at 44 seconds, nearly one minute before the target is destroyed. That is not going to be enough to be awarded the bounty.)

7. The police destroy the target. You don't see debris because it's a small ship, over three kilometers away and you are also looking directly into a star.

So to be clear, it's nothing to do with scanning or not, there would have been a bounty regardless of you getting the scan with the KWS because the NPC was wanted in that system. You didn't get the bounty because you didn't hit the ship with your weapons within the last 10 (or so) seconds of the fight.

Like I said, you are making a number of mistakes that are causing you to be less effective at combat, and then wondering what is going wrong. I / we are trying to point you in the right direction, it's up to you whether you want to take / try that advice. It's not personal, and I am certainly not trying to write a 'git gud' post, just making technical suggestions that might make you more effective.

I really do wish you the best of luck. It can be a fun game, and there's no requirement to be a fighter ace. I am certainly not. However, a few changes to your approach can certainly make you a better pilot, and net you a few bounties in the process if that's what you want to do. :)
 
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I have already agreed that I didn't get the bounty because I had not hit the NPC during the last 10 seconds before it was destroyed.

I asked you to watch my other videos. The one linked here is not a very good example of VA because I had a lot of background speech going on because my friend that called, which was the reason I dropped out, blew up my phone sending text messages that my phone was reading out loud. I was having to resort to keyboard commands.

Voice attack is not failing.. The NPC is not hostile therefore the "H" command, TARGET HIGHEST THREAT will not target. If the target is not hostile, the TARGET NEXT HOSTILE will not work either.

When someone is averaging 19 kills a day since the release of the game, I think it is safe to say their playing style is to kill everything they can.
 
I have already agreed that I didn't get the bounty because I had not hit the NPC during the last 10 seconds before it was destroyed.

I asked you to watch my other videos. The one linked here is not a very good example of VA because I had a lot of background speech going on because my friend that called, which was the reason I dropped out, blew up my phone sending text messages that my phone was reading out loud. I was having to resort to keyboard commands.

Voice attack is not failing.. The NPC is not hostile therefore the "H" command, TARGET HIGHEST THREAT will not target. If the target is not hostile, the TARGET NEXT HOSTILE will not work either.

When someone is averaging 19 kills a day since the release of the game, I think it is safe to say their playing style is to kill everything they can.

By all means link to your other videos and I'll give them a look.

But you see what you did there? You get advice, but it's wrong...

This video shows very clearly that an NPC remains hostile for the duration of an instance, whether you lose lock on them (which you did), even if they exceed scanner range (which they didn't). That is how the game works, it's never different, NPCs aren't that clever.

I completely understand that "Target Next Hostile" will only work if there is a hostile ship to be targeted. Frankly I don't care about (or use) voice attack, but you seem to be convinced it's compounding your difficulties. As I tried to say constructively in my previous post, it's not the tools that are letting you down, you are making errors.

I don't know what your last sentence refers to, sorry.
 
I completely understand that "Target Next Hostile" will only work if there is a hostile ship to be targeted. Frankly I don't care about (or use) voice attack, but you seem to be convinced it's compounding your difficulties. As I tried to say constructively in my previous post, it's not the tools that are letting you down, you are making errors.

VA is not normally compounding my difficulties.

I do want to thank you and if I can give you another REP Point for the observation about my reverse speed "error". I have addressed that here >>> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/356180-An-Old-Salts-Voice-Attack-Throttle-Commands <<< .
 
VA is not normally compounding my difficulties.

I do want to thank you and if I can give you another REP Point for the observation about my reverse speed "error". I have addressed that here >>> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/356180-An-Old-Salts-Voice-Attack-Throttle-Commands <<< .

No problem, and if you want to link to your other vids I'll take a look at some point.

A suggestion for throttle control in combat... Once you are close to your target, put throttle in the blue zone for maximum maneuverability and use thrusters, up/down, side to side and forward/reverse to keep at a good distance. By thrusters, I don't mean your throttle, but individually allocated controls for the "six degrees of flying" or whatever it's called. Obviously these will need to be set up in your Options > Controls.

I am far from the best at combat, but I find that has been a very helpful tactic. :)
 
No problem, and if you want to link to your other vids I'll take a look at some point.

A suggestion for throttle control in combat... Once you are close to your target, put throttle in the blue zone for maximum maneuverability and use thrusters, up/down, side to side and forward/reverse to keep at a good distance. By thrusters, I don't mean your throttle, but individually allocated controls for the "six degrees of flying" or whatever it's called. Obviously these will need to be set up in your Options > Controls.

I am far from the best at combat, but I find that has been a very helpful tactic. :)

The link to all my EDH stuff is in my signature.

I already use some thruster controls though I suspect the turrets make the thrusters less needed. I am working on keeping the belly of my AspX facing the NPC so the MCT's there get more time on target. When possible I try to get a bit nose down at the same time so the medium MTC's also get into the game. Not in this particular video though. Got taken by surprise and was greatly distracted by my near hysterical friend and her non-stop texts.
 
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