No gameplay for spacelegs? Think again!

CMDR_Raikkonen

CMDR_Raikkonen
There has been a constant stream of "spacelegs won't add gameplay" comments for years. Well the time for spacelegs is now - and let me tell you why...

FDev have continuously harked on about the lack of UI space, so much so that now in chapter 4 we have more than ever. A huge complaint about the FSS from the BETA forums is that the FSS interface feels disconnected from the cockpit (much like the reason I hate the gunner role in MC). If CMDR's could get up and walk to a new computer station that was specifically for exploration / route plotting, then this would absolutely be resolved.

This brings me right in to the multi crew experience, which is so disconnected it's not even funny. The fact that exploration in C4 was considered with MC in mind is laughable, because for MC to use the FSS the helm has to completely throttle down anyway. Made worse by the fact that if your crewmate finds something interesting, they can't even plot the route for you. So you still have to go in and do it yourself - the whole system is completely redundant. I did a quick test with a MC friend and she couldn't even see my cockpit decorations or hear my new COVAS selection.

I know FDev are stuck between a rock and hard place because there is obviously some difficult technical issues that prevent making things connect. But the solution is Spacelegs. I'd hate to see more and more changes made to the game in future that essentially keep feeling like clunky add-ons, in the hopes of being able to wrangle them all together at some point in future.

I keep seeing these following issues mentioned all over the forum:

- Why a blackout screen to get into the SRV?
- Unable to use SRVs in MC
- Stuck for UI space
- Disconnected FSS "mini-game" that feels like an add on
- SLF "holo-me" pilot nonsense with crew "sat somewhere in the hangar"
- Lame SLF range from mothership
- MC can't see your cockpit decorations, or your COVAS selection
- MC can access FSS but can't share a route / target. So you have to use FSS yourself as the helm (therefore it's pointless in MC)
- MC can't pilot your ship
- NPC crew don't appear on your bridge

The solution to connect all these elements of the game: Dedicated server and introduction of spacelegs.

Leave out the First Person Shooter aspect, ED isn't really that kinda game. But it's definitely time we got out of our chairs - TO CONNECT THE GAME AND MAKE IT WORK!
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
I'm not usually one to impose my view on someone else, but this is exactly the last thing I want.

Let me reiterate my position on legs for posterity and to avoid misunderstanding. I will happily accept any level of implementation of space legs AFTER the spaceship side of the game is as near perfect as it's going to get. That would include but not be limited to: atmospheric landings, space oddities (alien life forms, ion storms, comets, the Sword of Kahless, etc), CnP, and some other QoL stuff, as well as all the bugs being fixed.

The implementation that I would really want though, is one where I can actually do something meaningful. Can I sneak into a base in my cloaking armor to hack a terminal? Can I camp a base and wait for others to come and do the same and kill them before they can? Anything less will be 'not worth having bothered with' in my book, which is why I'm happy to wait and equally happy if it never happens at all. Just replacing interface elements with trekking around statoins would make the game take even longer to play, which is not something I feel it needs. I don't even like the idea of getting up and going to a different console in my ship, because if it was me, I'd put all the consoles I'm likely to need around my main seat.

Lastly...
- Why a blackout screen to get into the SRV?
- Unable to use SRVs in MC
- Stuck for UI space
- Disconnected FSS "mini-game" that feels like an add on
- SLF "holo-me" pilot nonsense with crew "sat somewhere in the hangar"
- Lame SLF range from mothership
- MC can't see your cockpit decorations, or your COVAS selection
- MC can access FSS but can't share a route / target. So you have to use FSS yourself as the helm (therefore it's pointless in MC)
- MC can't pilot your ship
- NPC crew don't appear on your bridge

None of these requires legs to solve. Kudos for putting an idea down on the forum that consists of more than monosyllabic grunts and demands, but I can't support this one.
 

thistle

T
Reasons for legs:

1) to get a feel for scale. So basic in ship cockpit, and landing pad legs, fine.
2) to get out and take pretty pictures of me in front of my ship in front of a landscape and sky, on atmospheric planets.

I'd rather have atmospheres before legs, but perhaps basic in cockpit/landing pad legs would be ok first, but not to the detriment of getting atmospheres in the game.
 

Sylveria

Sylveria
Although I'm a serious advocate for "space legs", I've yet to see Frontier actually legitimize it. They've basically gone into denial mode regarding Braben's vision in the Kickstarter (for those who are uninitiated, I simply invite you to do a bit of homework here) and have chosen the path of least resistance (or at least cost efficient) to provide much less than expected in terms of the game and what's possible from the perspective of a spaceship "CMDR".

C&P 2.0 is a good indicator to their intent... blaming "ships" rather than players for actions. Think about it.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
There are gameplay for spacelegs. It is just very big undertaking to deliver such gameplay and content to make worthwhile - especially if there are easier targets for devs to deliver and get player satisfaction.

It is context that matters. I don't think FD is short on ideas what to do with spacelegs. Main question is - can it be delivered in satisfactory way?
 

Luniticisi

Luniticisi
Mu question for space legs is, will the NPC's we come across be voiced or will it be text? (not something I have seen talked about when it comes to Space-legs)
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Luniticisi said:
Mu question for space legs is, will the NPC's we come across be voiced or will it be text? (not something I have seen talked about when it comes to Space-legs)
Click to expand...

You can judge from 3.3 release they want to do voices, but can't utilize voice synth tech yet (mentioned in recent QA). So it is long road ahead. They will be voiced most likely.
 

Pville_Piper

Pville_Piper
Maybe they could put a train station in the rings... Wouldn't be fun to sit there and wait on a train? So you travel to the missions office?

O... Wait one... Somebody has already stolen that thunder. [rolleyes]

Space legs, I just can't wait to see the mountains of salt when people find that they can't push a button to fix a ship or load cargo... What? You say that wouldn't happen? Well, I used to be able to jump into a system, scan it and fly to a station. Now, I have to go to the nav beacon, drop in amongst the pirates and scan a beacon to find it or I can just play sitting duck in super cruise whilst I manually scan a system all so that explorers could feel that IMMMERSHUN! No, space legs will be so nice in a game that was designed to fly spaceships. Nope, nobody will miss those placeholders that are shortcuts now... Nobody will complain at all... All so a few people can feel that IMMMERSHUN!
 

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
Dedicated server killed this. It’s never going to happen. It can’t. The game was not built around this model, and it can’t simply be swapped without a full rewrite, and that’s just not going to happen. There is no Santa Claus. There is no other option but to accept this and move on. You can what if/but if until you turn to dust, and this fact will remain.

Have I been anything less than 1000% clear? Let’s just make sure:

THERE WILL NOT EVER BE ANY “DEDICATED SERVER” or “CLIENT/SERVER” model for Elite: Dangerous EVER.

Kick, scream, cry, throw whatever you must, and even then, it is still never going to happen in the future from now until underverse come.

Never.

As for bipedal locomotion, there are plenty of things it could be used to do that aren’t tedious and would add to the game. They’ve been listed multiple times in other threads, so no need to rehash them here.
 

Kenneth McGrew

Kenneth McGrew
CMDR_Raikkonen said:
The fix: spacelegs.
Click to expand...


giphy.gif
 

Braandlin

Braandlin
Ignoring the OPs rather argumentative stance on game play and picking up on his last comment.

CMDR_Raikkonen said:
The solution to connect all these elements of the game: Dedicated server and introduction of spacelegs.
Click to expand...


I have no idea what you think you achieve with a dedicated server? dedicated to what exactly? The whole structure of ED is based on a single wolrd taht is enacted on peer to peer networked machines that client host the game without enormous server load and therefor lag. Sure the resultant instancing gives immersion problem for some, especially with the various modes, but it substantially removes server performance from the equation - although peer t peer network performance remains a potential problem.

There is no upside in ditching the current arrangement to go for server side processing.


As to the idea that what would solve the current perceptions of SOME commanders that using the various scanners takes them away from the cockpit, I shall leave it to others to deride how ridiculous the idea is that getting up and walking to another station is in any way a solution to keeping you in the flight cockpit.
 

Braandlin

Braandlin
thistle said:
Reasons for legs:

1) to get a feel for scale. So basic in ship cockpit, and landing pad legs, fine.
2) to get out and take pretty pictures of me in front of my ship in front of a landscape and sky, on atmospheric planets.

I'd rather have atmospheres before legs, but perhaps basic in cockpit/landing pad legs would be ok first, but not to the detriment of getting atmospheres in the game.
Click to expand...

1) fly a courier ... no room to get out of the chair.
2) I can live without that.

Let them finish the space exploration and simulation ideas with atmospheric landing and more gameplay before they embark on shoe horning another game type into elite
 

cheesenbiscuits

cheesenbiscuits
Space legs have to start somewhere and limiting it to the cockpit seems to be an acceptable compromise.
Whatever is added to ED it needs to be in such a way as they can back out due to technical difficulties and what remains still adds to the game.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Braandlin said:
Ignoring the OPs rather argumentative stance on game play and picking up on his last comment.




I have no idea what you think you achieve with a dedicated server? dedicated to what exactly? The whole structure of ED is based on a single wolrd taht is enacted on peer to peer networked machines that client host the game without enormous server load and therefor lag. Sure the resultant instancing gives immersion problem for some, especially with the various modes, but it substantially removes server performance from the equation - although peer t peer network performance remains a potential problem.

There is no upside in ditching the current arrangement to go for server side processing.


As to the idea that what would solve the current perceptions of SOME commanders that using the various scanners takes them away from the cockpit, I shall leave it to others to deride how ridiculous the idea is that getting up and walking to another station is in any way a solution to keeping you in the flight cockpit.
Click to expand...

With respect, Elite would be a lot better if it was a true client server model. P2P has many issues, have you done much multiplayer? I assume not. Next time a huge world event kicks off (Gnosis, battle for Fuelum, new Thargoid attack), try going there in a wing. ;) I'd give the leftmost part of my male anatomy for a true client/server model that would also provide more world persistence. This is the whole persistence problem.

What it has to do with the OP though, is something I too cannot fathom. :)
 
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