Horizons No jump with jaques station ?

[Flash_Baggins]

I can agree that if no ingame purpose was there , true it is greifing.
But what about if a player role plays as a psycho , or wants to kill every player who deals in say slaves. that would be hard to define if the player is role playing or just picking on foes.

My personal opinion is that as long as there is a lore justification for why the player did something its fine.
I have let a lot of potential targets of my own ethos go just out of fear of them pulling a temper tantrum.

Not that I ever greifed , I am talking about CZs , and Powerplay.

The reason I am so ''pro greif'' is because if everyone was in open I could finaly play the role of vigilante and help stop crime and murder.
Instead I just rage my war on pirats and feds

I agree with most of the things here, but using the rp as a psycho seems like a pretty rubbishy excuse to kill people whom have no way of properly defending. Also how can someone know whether someone deals in slaves (unless stated by the player themselves)
If an explorer is part of PP and gets killed then so be it (comes with the job description)


However, I can see why you take the stance you take (thanks for explaining )
I for one always play in open (except for DW to take part in meetups etc.) and a lot of players are very childish in the whole logging and 'oh I got killed by a griefer' side of things, it is very frustrating to see people shy away to solo mode because of getting killed that one time.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

lol i never played open mode just because i knew there would be griefers and all i have seen about them has confirmed my opinion that open should be a place of last resort unless you are a griefer.

i do wonder after this jump, assuming the station makes it, how it will support itself? will there be a nearby planet thats quickly terraformable to provide food? i can also see it being a hub for settlement, with people heading there as a waystop then heading to nearby systems to colonise. i wonder what kind of nation it will become?

 

[Privata]

lol i never played open mode just because i knew there would be griefers and all i have seen about them has confirmed my opinion that open should be a place of last resort unless you are a griefer.

i do wonder after this jump, assuming the station makes it, how it will support itself? will there be a nearby planet thats quickly terraformable to provide food? i can also see it being a hub for settlement, with people heading there as a waystop then heading to nearby systems to colonise. i wonder what kind of nation it will become?

I only play in open , never had any problemes. I think it depends were you hang out.

As for the station , my understanding is they dont want players who were on it and have not played in a while to apear out of the blue on the other side of the galaxie. As long as they give a solid reason in galnet (unless they allready did and I mised it) I am fine with what ever they do

 

[Rardain]

lol i never played open mode just because i knew there would be griefers and all i have seen about them has confirmed my opinion that open should be a place of last resort unless you are a griefer.

i do wonder after this jump, assuming the station makes it, how it will support itself? will there be a nearby planet thats quickly terraformable to provide food? i can also see it being a hub for settlement, with people heading there as a waystop then heading to nearby systems to colonise. i wonder what kind of nation it will become?

Your opinion of the open game is very skewed!

Self-admittedly, never having played in open how can you assert that it is full of 'griefers' to quote your term. I have played in open right from October 2014 and never once encountered any player out to stomp me just because they could...in fact the only time I had to evade other players was during power play when Felicia Winters home system was being blockaded and even then I outran the wings who were trying to kill me. I spent the majority of the first 18 months playing as a Merc and never once killed or attempted to kill another player.

Certainly if you prefer playing in Solo stay there but I suspect you are missing out on some fun aspects of the game in your cosy little world

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i never said it was full of griefers
but it only takes one wing of them one time to ruin your game for months. im not the kind of person who has the time and patience to redo work i had done over weeks and months to get my finances back and re-explore systems i lost data on because of someone else being a pillock. if its an npc pirate and i die because i misjudged, i can handle it. if i wind up too damaged due to something stupid like going too close to a star in supercruise and getting myself yanked out of it i can accept that. but i cant accept someone who goes around deliberately picking fights THEY CANT LOSE with people like me in ships they cant win, and not stopping until they are destroyed, lose data and cargo and have to rebuy, just because THEY and their pals are bored and think its funny to treat a space sim game as a space invaders arcade game. one griefer getting away with it one time is too many.

plus people like that dont see other players as people unless they know them or can see them. they dont even try to. and i despise bullies in any shape or form, because its those people who are able to hurt others for their own sick pleasure who cause so much real life harm - like we see in syria. i dont believe they should be allowed to get away with it.

and you can tell who they are on the forum - they are the ones whining how their victims have fled to solo or groups and how those should be closed so they can go destroying people who cant fight back because they have a ship set up for something other than killing players in weaker ships.

 

[popuptoaster]

Explorers get warned both on the forums and in at least two live streams I've seen that flying without weapons and shields is risky.

The possibility of armed ships arriving at Beagle point is exists anyway, it's already happened at Sag A so if you CHOOSE to fly defenceless you only have yourself to blame if it bites you on the behind.

Jaques station is full of living humans, danger to organic matter over such a long jump is not the reason ships cannot travel with him, his station is NOT deserted it is well populated.

The added mass of ships travelling with the station being an issue is also not possible, a US carriers planes are about 2% of it's all up fighting weight and Elites ships are much smaller relative to the station than a carriers planes are to it. If the added mass made such a long jump impossible he could just jump less distance in one go and travel the rest of the way in smaller jumps like he has been doing anyway. having decently armed and equipped ships with no other base of operations and thus with a vested interest in his stations continued survival makes way more sense than trying to rely on his small security force.

Players      ing about going the hard way to Beagle point while other get a ride is also no excuse FD have made long distance travel gradually easier with every patch, you don't see the guys who went to Sag A back in the early days saying new players can't go now because its easier! Even if they did say it no one would care.

There are no sensible in game reasons why players wouldn't be able to go (other than Jaques simply saying he doesn't want to take them for his own reasons) and many many lore friendly, practical reasons why he would want the added support.

FD have chosen and that's up to them, but its not possible to justify it with any of the excuses used here and I think FD are letting those players who want to risk the trip miss out on some great, dynamic, unique role play and gaming opportunities.

Everyone has been crying out for more personality, stories, lore and interest within the game to keep us going but we just get loot, crafting, and magic weapons instead......

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Using the 2% as a starting point, 2% of 65Kly is 1.3Kly. That 2% could be the difference between success or failure. You must also remember Jaques is a Cyborg. He may well be able to manage his Station on his own if there is nobody else on board, and he can shut down (or put into standby) all of the systems that are not required to make his journey possible (such as the main Life Support and the Docking Hall). Using the aircraft carrier as a starting point, one that has a full complement of equipment and crew is going to be VERY different from one that merely has a skeleton crew to move her to a safe harbour (even if they are identical ships); range, weight, required resources, and so on.

We also may not know what jump range Jaques Station has. I assume that, on the various routes to Beagle Point, there will be a minimum jump range required to make it possible to get there. What if Jaques Station can just make those jumps, but the weight of even 1 extraneous ship puts his jump range 0.01% on the wrong side of the minimum jump range?

Jaques may also be weighing up the risks of taking his Station into the unknown. On his own, he may well prepared to do things that he would not do if there were other people on the Station with him. If all he has to lose is his Station and his own life he might feel it worth trying, but if he were risking the lives of others (regardless of whether they were volunteers of the same mind) he might shy away from that choice. In Real Life single people (those who do not have any family commitments) are more likely to take risks that family people would avoid.

 

[Keman]

I'm a deep space explorer who has spent most their time in open, but in deep space. I finally get back to occupied space, and decide to play it safe. The Jaques event occurs, and I retrofit my ASP as a cargo ship, and go off to play truck driver simulator is space. After awhile, I got bored, and decided to interact with the people doing this, in hope many were cool explorers. By trip number 2, one crazed pilot rammed me from behind while exiting the station in his anaconda, proceeding to try and crush me instead of backing up. The next trip around, a deranged psycho path player interdicted me, and with no words, killed me in a crazy strong ship. He didn't break my hatch, or rob my stuff, he was just a nut job.

So yeah, it is that bad. If you have a competent combat ship, of course they will leave you alone, these people are lame cowards, and go after new players, weak ships, or ships unable to defend themselves. A fully upgraded ASP couldn't outmaneuver a tank, better yet take on a fighter who isn't completely terrible .

 

[popuptoaster]

Using the 2% as a starting point, 2% of 65Kly is 1.3Kly. That 2% could be the difference between success or failure. You must also remember Jaques is a Cyborg. He may well be able to manage his Station on his own if there is nobody else on board, and he can shut down (or put into standby) all of the systems that are not required to make his journey possible (such as the main Life Support and the Docking Hall). Using the aircraft carrier as a starting point, one that has a full complement of equipment and crew is going to be VERY different from one that merely has a skeleton crew to move her to a safe harbour (even if they are identical ships); range, weight, required resources, and so on.

We also may not know what jump range Jaques Station has. I assume that, on the various routes to Beagle Point, there will be a minimum jump range required to make it possible to get there. What if Jaques Station can just make those jumps, but the weight of even 1 extraneous ship puts his jump range 0.01% on the wrong side of the minimum jump range?

Jaques may also be weighing up the risks of taking his Station into the unknown. On his own, he may well prepared to do things that he would not do if there were other people on the Station with him. If all he has to lose is his Station and his own life he might feel it worth trying, but if he were risking the lives of others (regardless of whether they were volunteers of the same mind) he might shy away from that choice. In Real Life single people (those who do not have any family commitments) are more likely to take risks that family people would avoid.

There are thousands of people on Jaques station and he specifically LIKES having them along for the ride, booting pilots out of the station before the jump goes against FDs own ED lore....



"You Don't Know Jaques

Jaques is a barman, a property owner and a cyborg. Back in the year 3200, Jaques had been running the same bar in the same starport for an inhumanly long period of time. His tale was recounted in the “Stories of Life on the Frontier” booklet included with 1993’s Frontier: Elite II, wherein we learn Jaques owns half the starport and plans on taking it on a voyage across the galaxy just as soon as he buys the rest.

"I guess it will take me about another fifty years to buy up the rest of this place and another ten to fit it out with enough drive engines. I think I'll do what Augustus Brenquith did and fly off into the unknown and explore new systems. But I like people as well, so in sixty or so years time there will be an invitation going out: anyone who wants to come along can join me on a long trip.”

22 years after David Massey wrote the short story “All That Glisters...” in Stories of Life on the Frontier, Jaques is doing just that. It took a little longer than expected (the old Coriolis Station wasn’t robust enough to take the drives he wanted…) but he got there in the end. You’re welcome to join him for the ride next week.

Jaques Station is a custom mobile Orbis starport you’ll find in Elite: Dangerous 1.1. Modified to support drives, Jaques Station will jump to a new system from time to time as Jaques sets off on his course away from human space. His roaming starport will make a useful base for explorers, but if you're docked when he jumps you'll be taken with him.

Jaques Station will also sell a special and rare trade good, so check the markets if you can catch him. GalNet will be updated with news of the starport’s route next week, and will continue to keep track of his movements as Jaques journeys across the galaxy."


So, FD are leaving players behind for meta reasons NOT in game reasons.

Thats from newsletter #61

 

[Rardain]

i never said it was full of griefers
but it only takes one wing of them one time to ruin your game for months. im not the kind of person who has the time and patience to redo work i had done over weeks and months to get my finances back and re-explore systems i lost data on because of someone else being a pillock. if its an npc pirate and i die because i misjudged, i can handle it. if i wind up too damaged due to something stupid like going too close to a star in supercruise and getting myself yanked out of it i can accept that. but i cant accept someone who goes around deliberately picking fights THEY CANT LOSE with people like me in ships they cant win, and not stopping until they are destroyed, lose data and cargo and have to rebuy, just because THEY and their pals are bored and think its funny to treat a space sim game as a space invaders arcade game. one griefer getting away with it one time is too many.

plus people like that dont see other players as people unless they know them or can see them. they dont even try to. and i despise bullies in any shape or form, because its those people who are able to hurt others for their own sick pleasure who cause so much real life harm - like we see in syria. i dont believe they should be allowed to get away with it.

and you can tell who they are on the forum - they are the ones whining how their victims have fled to solo or groups and how those should be closed so they can go destroying people who cant fight back because they have a ship set up for something other than killing players in weaker ships.

I am not saying your fears are unfounded and I have no doubt there are those players that delight in abusing others just because they can - that is an inevitability in any on-line game, however, I think you are unnecessarily cutting yourself off from the community and larger game. Your comment "my opinion that open should be a place of last resort unless you are a griefer" is wildly unhelpful, especially if something like that is read by newbie players or those considering buying the game for the first and in that respect I think you should be certain of your facts before posting.

The truth about open is that 99% of the time you can just get on and do what you like. If you are unlucky enough to come across someone that is nasty then that is part of the experience and should actually add to your game wisdom, teaching caution and maybe informing your ship loadout and flight tactics.

Yes there may be bullies but that is life, real or imagined, and it shouldn't mean you have to run and hide because then the bully wins twice over. Chances are you will never encounter that player again, but if you do and are repeatedly targeted then that is victimisation and Frontier support can deal with it.

ED is a fantastic game with the vast majority of players being tolerant and co-operative - don't let your fears overrule your fun because then you may as well not play the game at all.

 

[aquantar]

I really expected to make the jump along with Jaques Station. To now read it will not happen is sort of disappointing. I do not have the time to do such journeys for myself so this seemed like a nice and welcome opportunity.

Of course I understand the concerns with the Expedition Players and so on but.....really why not announce in advance (and ingame) that this jump will be different?

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i think he considered the possibility of class action lawsuits from relatives of any pilots who died during the trip lol.

@cypher871 i shouldnt have to alter my loadout from doing what i need it to do, to protecting me from griefers. i lose nothing and they win nothing because i play solo. unless they introduce a player toggle system like in world of warcraft, thats where i will stay. they havent gotten any fun by destroying me, and i dont have to deal with losing months of work because some idiot wont grow up, and enjoys causing hurt and distress to others.

i cant go exploring if i cant fit fuel scoop and detail scanner because i have to fit hull reinforcements and shield banks instead -or cargo space; meaning a lot of missions i cant do, meaning it takes FAR longer to earn enough to buy the other ships i want. its cheaper and simpler to stay in solo. and i doubt any new player in their sidewinder will play beyond their first death or 3 to the griefers staking out the newbie systems. thats a loss financially to frontier. so my advice is to new players, stay in solo until you have upgraded your ship or gotten a more powerful one and upgraded that. THEN try groups and open.