Engineers No More

Firstly I would like to say that I have had a mostly good time with Elite. I joined on Xbox back in Nov 2015 and am currently on PC. I have put in plenty of time to get pretty good at everything, see most of the Bubble, own everything at least once, and start over once. I was a member of a player faction on Xbox and am in one now, but Elite's gone. Frontier, why did you try and make a single player game with multiplayer elements? Why did you do that? You punished the MMO community, and you punished the solo community. Nobody won!

The people who want to be left alone can, but everyone else is out to dry. This isn't pvp/pve. This is a simple idea I heard Braben himself say. He didn't want to make a pvp game, he said the most fun he has had is doing things with others cooperatively. Well... What? Doing what? We can't PvP because 90% of the community can't hang, and because the 10% that can, can't instance together. INSTANCING. What a great idea.

We can't PwP (player with player) because of the same issue, except PwP is punished most of all because there isn't anything to do in the first place. "Well sir you can mine." Uh what? Mining with a guy near you doesn't make it more fun. "You can trade." Trading with a guy in the wing doesn't make it more fun, in fact if you are slower/faster it makes it much less fun. "Well silly go explore!" Ok, so we go drive SRV's and shoot barnacles for a few hours over a beer. Now what? "Hey dude go to a RES." Ah, the most offered option. Yes having a wingman helps the efficiency, but is it more fun? I don't need help with the NPCs at all. They're still a cakewalk. We could engage a wing and really scrap! And that's an idea, a really good one. So we have option number one!

"Ay matey, ye be needin some piracy." Oh, Rum. You. Yes I love pirating. I do. And it is a blast with people, in fact it's the most fun you can have in game with friends. Unless it's against NPCs. Not because of the salt. No. It's because NPCs are more predictable than a high fiber diet. People are spontaneous and creative! People are incredible creatures who will do anything from swear at you to make you play 20 questions for their cargo. Pirating players and being pirated by players is fun because you get danger, and unpredictability. Ok. So. We have two options for PwP, Bounty Hunting, and Piracy. Except... Piracy is really PvwP, Player versus/with Player and that can't count. So Bounty Hunting it is.

Do we see the problem here? Elite can't be a solo game for many because they aren't skilled enough to solo the NPCs, and the community as a whole hates PvP, so we NEED PwP but there is basically one option. Frontier.. (I know nobody cares but this just needs to be said) Frontier, you lost me. I can't do this anymore. I turn on my PC and think "do I really want to turn on Elite just to stare at the UI and wonder     im doing?" The obvious response from any seasoned forumdad is "Well it would appear there is plenty to do in Elite, there is just nothing YOU want to do." Except that's the issue, I'm not alone. I hung on for a long time. Elite lost a lot of people recently because of NPCs, but before that they lost a lot of people because the game is empty. People left because PvP is the cardinal sin, they left because combat logging roams free, they left because mining is a niche appeal, and trading isn't fun. There are zero in game consequences for anything and this is mostly due to the P2P architecture that ruined many a great idea from day one. This could go on longer, but I don't see the point. It's been real, Frontier. You had potential.
 
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Firstly I would like to say that I have had a mostly good time with Elite. I joined on Xbox back in Nov 2015 and am currently on PC. I have put in plenty of time to get pretty good at everything, see most of the Bubble, own everything at least once, and start over once. I was a member of a player faction on Xbox and am in one now, but Elite's gone. Frontier, why did you try and make a single player game with multiplayer elements? Why did you do that? You punished the MMO community, and you punished the solo community. Nobody won!

The people who want to be left alone can, but everyone else is out to dry. This isn't pvp/pve. This is a simple idea I heard Braben himself say. He didn't want to make a pvp game, he said the most fun he has had is doing things with others cooperatively. Well... What? Doing what? We can't PvP because 90% of the community can't hang, and because the 10% that can, can't instance together. INSTANCING. What a great idea.

We can't PwP (player with player) because of the same issue, except PwP is punished most of all because there isn't anything to do in the first place. "Well sir you can mine." Uh what? Mining with a guy near you doesn't make it more fun. "You can trade." Trading with a guy in the wing doesn't make it more fun, in fact if you are slower/faster it makes it much less fun. "Well silly go explore!" Ok, so we go drive SRV's and shoot barnacles for a few hours over a beer. Now what? "Hey dude go to a RES." Ah, the most offered option. Yes having a wingman helps the efficiency, but is it more fun? I don't need help with the NPCs at all. They're still a cakewalk. We could engage a wing and really scrap! And that's an idea, a really good one. So we have option number one! "Ay matey, ye be needin some piracy." Oh, Rum. You. Yes I love pirating. I do. And it is a blast with people, in fact it's the most fun you can have in game with friends. Unless it's against NPCs. Not because of the salt. No. It's because NPCs are more predictable than a high fiber diet.

People are spontaneous and creative! People are incredible creatures who will do anything from swear at you to make you play 20 questions for their cargo. Pirating players and being pirated by players is fun because you get danger, and unpredictability. Ok. So. We have two options for PwP, Bounty Hunting, and Piracy. Except... Piracy is really PvwP, Player versus/with Player and that can't count. So Bounty Hunting it is. Do we see the problem here? Elite can't be a solo game for many because they aren't skilled enough to solo the NPCs, and the community as a whole hates PvP, so we NEED PwP but there is basically one option. Frontier.. (I know nobody cares but this just needs to be said)

Frontier, you lost me. I can't do this anymore. I turn on my PC and think "do I really want to turn on Elite just to stare at the UI and wonder im doing?" The obvious response from any seasoned forumdad is "Well it would appear there is plenty to do in Elite, there is just nothing YOU want to do." Except that's the issue, I'm not alone. I hung on for a long time. Elite lost a lot of people recently because of NPCs, but before that they lost a lot of people because the game is empty. People left because PvP is the cardinal sin, they left because combat logging roams free, they left because mining is a niche appeal, and trading isn't fun.

There are zero in game consequences for anything and this is mostly due to the P2P architecture that ruined many a great idea from day one. This could go on longer, but I don't see the point. It's been real, Frontier. You had potential.

Paragraphs added to OP.

Sad isn't it, that such a great game with so much potential of being one of the all time greatest games I've ever played has come to this juncture. I have loved playing ED pre 2.1 over the last 5 months or so. Now I'm left deciding what to do based upon the response I get from my raised support ticket. Did FDEV deliberately set zero threat USSs as a trap (something that I suspect nearly all noob players like me would walk into)? If the answer to this is yes... Then I'm out for good as we are clearly not on the same page. If it's a bug and they confirm it's a bug and fix it asap then I may watch what happens next.

Either way, I know FDEV will not change direction quickly and hence, even if I do continue playing at all, it will be in a drastically reduced form (deep space exploration etc WELL Away from the bubble and the npc's. I have been deeply saddened and upset by the events over the last week. I guess everything has to come to an end somewhere, and for me (as an obviously incompetent player), ED has become unplayable. Ultimately, if new players can't get into the game, it will just fade away into some corner of obscurity... Enjoy your game. It isn't my game any more.
 
Paragraphs added to OP.

Sad isn't it, that such a great game with so much potential of being one of the all time greatest games I've ever played has come to this juncture. I have loved playing ED pre 2.1 over the last 5 months or so. Now I'm left deciding what to do based upon the response I get from my raised support ticket. Did FDEV deliberately set zero threat USSs as a trap (something that I suspect nearly all noob players like me would walk into)? If the answer to this is yes... Then I'm out for good as we are clearly not on the same page. If it's a bug and they confirm it's a bug and fix it asap then I may watch what happens next.

Either way, I know FDEV will not change direction quickly and hence, even if I do continue playing at all, it will be in a drastically reduced form (deep space exploration etc WELL Away from the bubble and the npc's. I have been deeply saddened and upset by the events over the last week. I guess everything has to come to an end somewhere, and for me (as an obviously incompetent player), ED has become unplayable. Ultimately, if new players can't get into the game, it will just fade away into some corner of obscurity... Enjoy your game. It isn't my game any more.

Don't give up on it yet Susanna, FDev are constantly tweaking and rejigging things with each build. Personally I like the AI as they are now, but many players like yourself don't, and I'm sure that FDev, for the sake of their business model, will have to consider that fact in future updates. So maybe you could take a break until the next build, and keep an eye on the forums in the meantime.

I must say that as much as I like the AI as they are now, I'd rather see them toned down below my preferred level than see scores of players leaving the game...
 
Paragraphs added to OP.

Sad isn't it, that such a great game with so much potential of being one of the all time greatest games I've ever played has come to this juncture. I have loved playing ED pre 2.1 over the last 5 months or so. Now I'm left deciding what to do based upon the response I get from my raised support ticket. Did FDEV deliberately set zero threat USSs as a trap (something that I suspect nearly all noob players like me would walk into)? If the answer to this is yes... Then I'm out for good as we are clearly not on the same page. If it's a bug and they confirm it's a bug and fix it asap then I may watch what happens next.

Either way, I know FDEV will not change direction quickly and hence, even if I do continue playing at all, it will be in a drastically reduced form (deep space exploration etc WELL Away from the bubble and the npc's. I have been deeply saddened and upset by the events over the last week. I guess everything has to come to an end somewhere, and for me (as an obviously incompetent player), ED has become unplayable. Ultimately, if new players can't get into the game, it will just fade away into some corner of obscurity... Enjoy your game. It isn't my game any more.

I feel your pain.. I haven't played in a few days now, but I too was thinking to go out to Sag A again.. maybe
Meanwhile eveonline has a free 14 day offer :)
 
I feel your pain.. I haven't played in a few days now, but I too was thinking to go out to Sag A again.. maybe
Meanwhile eveonline has a free 14 day offer :)
Interesting, I didn't know that. It's a combat orientated game but might be more playable than ED is now. Worth a free look at it anyway. Thanks for the tip! +1 rep.
 
Firstly I would like to say that I have had a mostly good time with Elite. I joined on Xbox back in Nov 2015 and am currently on PC. I have put in plenty of time to get pretty good at everything, see most of the Bubble, own everything at least once, and start over once. I was a member of a player faction on Xbox and am in one now, but Elite's gone. Frontier, why did you try and make a single player game with multiplayer elements? Why did you do that? You punished the MMO community, and you punished the solo community. Nobody won! The people who want to be left alone can, but everyone else is out to dry. This isn't pvp/pve. This is a simple idea I heard Braben himself say. He didn't want to make a pvp game, he said the most fun he has had is doing things with others cooperatively. Well... What? Doing what? We can't PvP because 90% of the community can't hang, and because the 10% that can, can't instance together. INSTANCING. What a great idea. We can't PwP (player with player) because of the same issue, except PwP is punished most of all because there isn't anything to do in the first place. "Well sir you can mine." Uh what? Mining with a guy near you doesn't make it more fun. "You can trade." Trading with a guy in the wing doesn't make it more fun, in fact if you are slower/faster it makes it much less fun. "Well silly go explore!" Ok, so we go drive SRV's and shoot barnacles for a few hours over a beer. Now what? "Hey dude go to a RES." Ah, the most offered option. Yes having a wingman helps the efficiency, but is it more fun? I don't need help with the NPCs at all. They're still a cakewalk. We could engage a wing and really scrap! And that's an idea, a really good one. So we have option number one! "Ay matey, ye be needin some piracy." Oh, Rum. You. Yes I love pirating. I do. And it is a blast with people, in fact it's the most fun you can have in game with friends. Unless it's against NPCs. Not because of the salt. No. It's because NPCs are more predictable than a high fiber diet. People are spontaneous and creative! People are incredible creatures who will do anything from swear at you to make you play 20 questions for their cargo. Pirating players and being pirated by players is fun because you get danger, and unpredictability. Ok. So. We have two options for PwP, Bounty Hunting, and Piracy. Except... Piracy is really PvwP, Player versus/with Player and that can't count. So Bounty Hunting it is. Do we see the problem here? Elite can't be a solo game for many because they aren't skilled enough to solo the NPCs, and the community as a whole hates PvP, so we NEED PwP but there is basically one option. Frontier.. (I know nobody cares but this just needs to be said) Frontier, you lost me. I can't do this anymore. I turn on my PC and think "do I really want to turn on Elite just to stare at the UI and wonder im doing?" The obvious response from any seasoned forumdad is "Well it would appear there is plenty to do in Elite, there is just nothing YOU want to do." Except that's the issue, I'm not alone. I hung on for a long time. Elite lost a lot of people recently because of NPCs, but before that they lost a lot of people because the game is empty. People left because PvP is the cardinal sin, they left because combat logging roams free, they left because mining is a niche appeal, and trading isn't fun. There are zero in game consequences for anything and this is mostly due to the P2P architecture that ruined many a great idea from day one. This could go on longer, but I don't see the point. It's been real, Frontier. You had potential.

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Interesting, I didn't know that. It's a combat orientated game but might be more playable than ED is now. Worth a free look at it anyway. Thanks for the tip! +1 rep.

Eve online allways had 21 days free offer as far as I know if you get invited by an active eve player.
I am an ex-eve online player and today I regret to say that I am missing eve... This game is definitely going into the wrong direction, but lets wait a few more days, to see what they are going to do to fix this game.

For me I am expecting two opposite sides :
- they to ruin the only thing fun left that is exploration putting alien targoids everywhere so you cant do exploration anymore.
- Or to listen to all the comunity and remove the RNG, balance the mods, and remove mod from, if not all, almost all of the NPCs.

Lets see, they said they will remove the mods, and said something about the RNG, who knows what they are thinking.
 
@Susanna I can feel with you this Game is broken.
I'm not a combat pilot i'm trading and exploring in this Game.
Every 2times i got interdicted by higher combat rank as me mostly Elite Condas or Elite FDL with moded Weapons and the Repaircost are higher as my Profit.
Losts Ships 2 Anacondas and 1 Python.
Greetings ALDA:)
 
Paragraphs added to OP.

Sad isn't it, that such a great game with so much potential of being one of the all time greatest games I've ever played has come to this juncture. I have loved playing ED pre 2.1 over the last 5 months or so. Now I'm left deciding what to do based upon the response I get from my raised support ticket. Did FDEV deliberately set zero threat USSs as a trap (something that I suspect nearly all noob players like me would walk into)? If the answer to this is yes... Then I'm out for good as we are clearly not on the same page. If it's a bug and they confirm it's a bug and fix it asap then I may watch what happens next.

Either way, I know FDEV will not change direction quickly and hence, even if I do continue playing at all, it will be in a drastically reduced form (deep space exploration etc WELL Away from the bubble and the npc's. I have been deeply saddened and upset by the events over the last week. I guess everything has to come to an end somewhere, and for me (as an obviously incompetent player), ED has become unplayable. Ultimately, if new players can't get into the game, it will just fade away into some corner of obscurity... Enjoy your game. It isn't my game any more.

Its only a game in the end...

I find it quite funny that the USS threat counter is wrong most of the time, certainly keeps you on your toes thats for sure! You seem to have the wrong attitude to this, as stated it is only a game in the end. Its not like you losing anything.
 
Interesting, I didn't know that. It's a combat orientated game but might be more playable than ED is now. Worth a free look at it anyway. Thanks for the tip! +1 rep.
Dont play Eve unless you want PvP. The company that makes it endorses all kinds of PvP, and if you play and start screaming griefer, everyone laughs. I mean I love Eve, but a lot of Elite players are in a safe space compared to Eve.
 
This is a weird OP to read after my time playing today.

A workmate contacted me and asked if I knew a good trade route, as he'd just bought a Python. I said I'd meet him at XYZ system, and we would run together.

We had a great time, flying as a pair of decently armed traders, with in-game voice comms working perfectly. My mate's python was interdicted twice by high-ranking NPC ships; the second was an ELITE Anaconda, which was a ton of fun. While it was lining up my mate for interdiction, I was right on its tail in SC. We tore into it, the fuzz came, all hell was breaking loose. When it popped, out came the collector limpets for its various leftover parts. We cruised into station, sold our cargo, checked in our mission deliveries, collected each others' wing trade dividends, pocketed the bounty payment, getting reputation emails and chatting about how far this little game has come. Everything just worked.

This right here, this is the base game. It's just a spaceship tradey shooty game with good sound, nice handling ships, and with the ability to fly wingtip to wingtip doing the good old Elite stuff.

If that's not what floats your boat, then no worries. Best of luck finding what does!
 
Kind of OT but since it keeps cropping up in the comments.

Threat 0 are *generally* without any NPCs. But, if you have an NPC that's following you or shown an interest in you they will drop in to the instance with you. The same way they'll drop into a station with you.

If you want to make sure you're not bothered in a USS do the following:


  1. Check comms tab. If you see a message from an NPC there then there's a good chance they'll drop in.
  2. If you don't see a message slow way down before entering it and watch your radar. If there's a target closing on you then there's a good chance they'll follow you in as well.


I know others have reported seeing NPCs in a threat 0 even when they're not being followed but I've personally never witnessed it through 100s of drop ins. I personally don't believe threat 0 USSes ever *spawn* an aggressive NPC (they can spawn passive, like rescue ships), but an NPC may drop in on you if you're not watching which is effectively the same thing.

Thread 1-4 definitely spawn NPCs.
 
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Its only a game in the end...

I find it quite funny that the USS threat counter is wrong most of the time, certainly keeps you on your toes thats for sure! You seem to have the wrong attitude to this, as stated it is only a game in the end. Its not like you losing anything.
True, but a game must remind fun. 2.1 looks like to be the opposite for some !
 
Kind of OT but since it keeps cropping up in the comments.

Threat 0 are *generally* without any NPCs. But, if you have an NPC that's following you or shown an interest in you they will drop in to the instance with you. The same way they'll drop into a station with you.

I had one that really, really looked like it was triggered by scanning a data node. It appeared suddenly at the exact instant that I finished (and I'd been messing around scooping up materials for a while before that) and there hadn't been any of the normal NPC threats while in supercruise.

Then again, it was a single eagle. Given that threat 1 USSs are apparently an entire wing of enemies (admittedly, not very strong enemies, but it's hard to fight a wing solo now) a single ship still probably fits into threat 0.
 
Kind of OT but since it keeps cropping up in the comments.

Threat 0 are *generally* without any NPCs. But, if you have an NPC that's following you or shown an interest in you they will drop in to the instance with you. The same way they'll drop into a station with you.

If you want to make sure you're not bothered in a USS do the following:


  1. Check comms tab. If you see a message from an NPC there then there's a good chance they'll drop in.
  2. If you don't see a message slow way down before entering it and watch your radar. If there's a target closing on you then there's a good chance they'll follow you in as well.


I know others have reported seeing NPCs in a threat 0 even when they're not being followed but I've personally never witnessed it through 100s of drop ins. I personally don't believe threat 0 USSes ever *spawn* an aggressive NPC (they can spawn passive, like rescue ships), but an NPC may drop in on you if you're not watching which is effectively the same thing.

Thread 1-4 definitely spawn NPCs.

ah yes that makes sense, i have had a few npc's drop into 0's with me, and it has been with me, rahter than them already there, so now i know why. thx
 
True, but a game must remind fun. 2.1 looks like to be the opposite for some !

The reason why so many different types of games are produced is because not everyone likes the same kind of things. Personally, I don't like First Person Shooters, so I don't play them. I suppose I could buy, say, Overwatch, and then demand the Dev Team remove all the FPS elements so I'd enjoy playing it, but IMO that would be silly.

Don't generally like real-time strategy games either, so I don't play them. I suppose I could buy, say, DOTA2, and then demand the Dev Team remove all the real-time elements so I'd enjoy playing it, but IMO that would also be silly.

I backed Elite: Dangerous, because it promised to be the type of game I really enjoy. It promised to be an open sandbox, where you decide what you want to be and do, rather than be railroaded into following someone else's story. It promised that you would have to put in some effort to get rewards, and that foolish choices would wipe you out in an instant. And it promised that you wouldn't have to play with players, or play vs players, if you didn't want to.

"One size fits all" games have their place, I suppose, but I prefer games that don't cater to the lowest common denominator.
 
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