"No one wants to be Uncle Owen"

[Toumal]

Definitely agree that this would be a big step forward. I would particularly like to see an increase in rewards for more dangerous areas. Who in their right mind would carry goods into an anarchy system unless there were greater rewards to be had there?

This. And this goes hand in hand with my suggestion to have safe systems be really quite safe with almost no pirates and fast police response.

But also lower profits.

 

[Dim Reaper]

I think passengers and the beluga are proof FD are aware of the need to have combat not be the sole focus of the game.

That's a good point and I hope that they realise it enough to alter some other aspects of the game. Imagine that you are ferrying 30 workers to a station 60LY away and you plot your route through "safe" systems, and every time you jump into a system an NPC appears and says, "That's the ship I'm looking for. The one with the tasty cargo." and then proceeds to chain interdict you.

On the other hand, I'd also like to see missions where you can carry a wanted fugitive or someone who is going into witness protection and you ARE likely to be interdicted and have to fight your way out...for a much greater reward.

 

[Dabir]

This has been said many times before... They're mostly working on combat. A very large part of new content tends to be combat-related (for example engineers: lots of weapon mods, fewer general purpose, though it does have a few things, like the FSD upgrade, that greatly benefit traders and explorers).

So, combat, the part of the game that is already the most developed, gets even more attention. And combat also becomes more common. So, if you want combat, you can do just combat. If you want to explore, trade, mine,... You need a strong combat ship anyway because you can be sure the game will give you some surprise combat moments. It's particularly bad for explorers, who need a lightweight ship for best performance in the quiet areas, but still have to be able to survive when returning to the bubble to sell their data.

OK, a lot of the content in patches tends to be combat-related, that's certainly one way to look at it. How about this one: Combat doesn't get actually get much more content than anything else, relative to what's already in it. I mean, some weapons don't even get mods above rank 2, so in that sense it gets even less than general purpose stuff! The FSD boosts, heat efficiency power plants and all sorts of stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting are really valuable to explorers. Not so much to combat ships, which are usually starved for power so can't afford to go with heat efficient, and have such short jump ranges that even a rank 5 mod only gives them 6 or 7 extra lightyears.

 

[Toumal]

On the other hand, I'd also like to see missions where you can carry a wanted fugitive or someone who is going into witness protection and you ARE likely to be interdicted and have to fight your way out...for a much greater reward.

Exactly. Also, I'm not saying there should be NO interdictions at all in high security systems - but the police response should be swift and severe. Even in an unarmed ship you should be able to stay alive until the cops arrive.

We need to be able to have new players have positive experiences if they make the right choices, and only punish them if they jump into a low security or anarchy system without being prepared. Being chain-interdicted in a starter system is just not fun for someone who can barely afford the rebuy cost for what little upgrades they have in their sidewinder or hauler.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

As an old EQ player you have my sympathy

Long ago were the days that I would sit in The Nexus casting Clarity and SoW as people ran past, just chatting to the locals and enjoying a bit of peace and quiet.

 

[Dim Reaper]

Exactly. Also, I'm not saying there should be NO interdictions at all in high security systems - but the police response should be swift and severe. Even in an unarmed ship you should be able to stay alive until the cops arrive.

We need to be able to have new players have positive experiences if they make the right choices, and only punish them if they jump into a low security or anarchy system without being prepared. Being chain-interdicted in a starter system is just not fun for someone who can barely afford the rebuy cost for what little upgrades they have in their sidewinder or hauler.

Excellent points. This is extremely important for the future of the game. Players come and go all the time in online games. To maintain a vibrant community (and pay Frontier) we need new players to come to the game and to stay. I think that right now, there is still work to do in helping new players get started and some work on the security of systems would be a good start.

 

[Saool]

SWG was a simply fantastic game in it's heyday. The finest example of a sandbox game. They turned into just another theme park and it died.

We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves.

Nancy MacIntyre, Senior Director for SWG at Lucasarts.

That quote has to be one of the dumbest things ever written. A fine example of someone who had no idea what they were talking about or about their own game. If your out there Nancy, well played. You skilfully demonstrated why you should never be employed as a director of anything ever again. You looked at WoW and in your clueless non-gamer exec way said, if WoW is so popular and Star Wars is so popular we just need to make WoW with lightsabers and we win. Dumb everything down and make it really simple and everyone will want to play. Your ignorance and stupidity were breathtaking. Have a golf clap.

 

[Luponator]

Depending on social aspects are implemented when we get first-person perspective / "space legs", hopefully we'll see a little of that community start to grow. At the moment, the game doesn't allow for social interaction between the odd line of text chat, and either shooting at each other or running away from each other. The game would be very well served by social hubs, be they cantina / station bars, or commercial areas, where people can just meet, outside of their ships, and have meaningful interactions, in or out of character.

And this exactly is the reason why Open is not living up to it's full potential. What's to be gained? As you said a few random text chats at best. What's to be lost? At worst, a whole ship plus cargo.

The lack of a good in-game social component is a pity as there's a great set of opportunities for it. The unfortunate instancing aside.

 

[RedWarden]

They turned into just another theme park and it died.

I see what you did there: Jabba's Theme Park??

My favorite part of Nancy's quote has always been the "rather than something they had created" part. I bought the game, paid your fees for years, and then "No, No, NO! You're playing it wrong!" Wow...really.
I miss so much of what SWG was mostly due to players. A player made my weapon. A player made my first house. My favorite ship and it's parts. Tipping entertainers for making my online life a little easier. Etc. I can only hope Elite comes close to that experience.

I really hope the messaging / chat pieces are fixed. When I get a direct message about the 'Whale but can't reply because I've jumped somewhere, I'm always dumbfounded. Then I'm embarrassed because I do hate to be rude and can only hope that the other CMDR knows that I can't respond (unless I really can and never learned how to do it ).
Regarding security: How can I take an interstellar empire seriously if pirates run amok in their own home system?
How had Mahon become the premiere power but I'm harassed by every other power in his home system? I'm circling his home world for crying out loud! That's when I dropped my pledge! LOL

I still enjoy the game quite a bit. Not as much as I used to, but I still log a lot of time. I hope that game balance swings back a bit. Not a fan of random violence everywhere.

Maybe I can't be Uncle Owen, but I can be a Red Warden: Explorer, Space Trucker, Cruise Director. On the "Apple Whale" what happens in a luxury cabin *stays* in a luxury cabin.

 

[Dim Reaper]

SWG was a simply fantastic game in it's heyday. The finest example of a sandbox game. They turned into just another theme park and it died.

Absolutely. Part of me keeps telling myself, "Let it go, man." but when I look back on what happened to SWG I still feel bitter - even though if it was still running today the graphics would probably no longer be up to scratch.

Two things give me hope for Eliteangerous -
1) Seeing the livestreams this week reinforces the enthusiasm that FDev have for their game.
2) The community that we have as a whole. We have a very tiny minority of people who just want to spoil the game for anyone else, but the vast majority of players form a great community. Right now, that community is scattered somewhat between the forums here, various facebook groups, private forums, reddit etc. A lot of players probably never come to the forums. Hopefully in the next few years we will have the ability to walk into a bar on a space station and hang out and chat, arrange groups for mining or bounty hunting etc.

Sorry to keep harping on about SWG, but for me part of what made the space part of that game was the seamlessness with which you could go from ground to space with a group of friends, hang out in the ship and then go into battle. I'm sure any SWG players out there will remember the Sorosuub Luxury Yacht. It was possibly most useless ship in the game - slow, no weapons etc, but it was always worth keeping at the starport just for taking friends to and seeing the sights.

Video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO-7xd3bq9E

I'd love to be able to walk around my anaconda in that way.

 

[Chronverge]

I would cry with joy if ED had a crafting system as SWG did. Resource quality man, I remember waiting 2 years to get a max value spawn so I could craft that tasty server capped Muon Gold. For those who don't know how it worked:

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Crafting

TL;DR:

Various resources spawned at a random qualitiy % (5-99) every few weeks, days or even within hours at different locations thoughout the sandbox. You had to place resource harvesters to gather and had to return every few cycles to empty the bins. Every player crafted item became 100% unique, since with the combination of the various percentages, everyone was recieving a different outcome in total item quality. Some blueprint components weighed their %'s in more than others, so players could tailor the stats to their needs or according to the resource quality.

It was really complex and extremely rewarding. Until this day, I have not seen a crafting system come anywhere close to it. With a player driven ecconomy or at least a way to personally contribute to the BGS we have now, this system would be one of the greatest updates to ED since launch.

 

[Siranui]

Long ago were the days that I would sit in The Nexus casting Clarity and SoW as people ran past, just chatting to the locals and enjoying a bit of peace and quiet.

Nexus? You kids with your new-fangled moon-teleporty things!

I used to sit chatting outside FP, sometimes pausing to explain to people that no, I could not 'cast' my bard speed buff on them.

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Various resources spawned at a random qualitiy % (5-99) every few weeks, days or even within hours at different locations thoughout the sandbox...

Sounds a great system, but can you imagine the rage if that was implemented in a modern game?

Having to wait *weeks* and then it being *RNG*???!!!

We used to do things like that in games and it was fine, because you'd wait and you'd get a good item and you'd be happy. Now people feel robbed if a mere day of play won't give out the *best* possible roll!

 

[JetsonRING]

“No one wants to be Uncle Owen.” Anyone who played Star Wars Galaxies will remember that quote as the beginning of the end of the game. I’m not sure that that exact line was ever actually said, but it summarised an overall change in direction for the game that led to a mass exodus of players and the eventual closing of a game that many people remember very fondly. (I’ll put the full quote at the bottom of this post so it doesn’t take up room here).

What has this got to do with Elite: Dangerous?

Lately I am seeing a similar trend in ED. I know that ED is still a work in progress and that there are still vast areas of content to develop, but certain play styles seem to be getting pushed to one side with recent updates.

It’s difficult for FDev to balance the game with the very different expectations and play styles of its customer base – some people want PvP, some want only PvE and others want to go off an explore for months and not have to interact with anything other than their scanners and the galaxy map. Some want to be a lone wolf in the galaxy, others want huge guilds. Some players will power-grind their way to be most powerful, engineer-enhanced ships whilst others want to pop in for a couple of hours each week.

It is this last group that I am most concerned for. Going back to SWG, I remember the huge numbers of entertainers who likes to just hang out in the cantina, dancing, playing music and chatting to the combat players who came in. Even amongst the XP grind groups, there were a lot of players who enjoyed sitting in a camp in the middle of nowhere chatting to other players whilst everyone healed up from the combat. For a long time in the game, I played a crafter and when I eventually started to move towards combat I bought another account and build up a new shipwright/pilot just so that I could continue with crafting. I enjoyed being an “Uncle Owen”. I enjoyed interacting with customers in my shop and creating custom parts for them, or advising newbies on how to outfit a ship, or hanging around the cantina waiting for people to come in shouting for help with missions (anyone remember forming up with a group of players trying to get their Master Pilot for the first time so that you could take out the corvette’s guns for them?)

The equivalent of everything in the above paragraphs is the ED player who logs on with the intention of spending a couple of hours hauling superconductors and advanced catalysers between two planets, possibly saying “Hi” to any other commander that they see. After 6 months of playing, they are flying a T7 and are still happy hauling things back and forth with the occasional community goal or the odd data mission from the bulletin board thrown in. Maybe they want to spend a week or two running a rares route, scanning systems as they go. These are the people who are maybe looking after their kids all day, or look after an ill relative, or do a soul-destroying job for long hours. They want a small amount of time to leave the real world behind and relax.

Recently though, that play style seems to be marginalised. NPC interdictions have increased and when they do finally get you they have greatly increased firepower. I recently put away my anaconda and built a Cobra MK III. I was hauling cargo and a couple of data carrying missions. No problem on the first run, but as soon as I got the “reward” of components put in my cargo hold, I was interdicted on my next run. I escaped by dropping mines and running, but then I was interdicted again and again by the same NPC. Once maybe adds a bit of excitement, multiple times is just an annoying distraction from a fairly peaceful hour of trading.

I know that we are out on a frontier and it’s dangerous. But should it be equally dangerous wherever you go? Surely a place like the Sol system, or Achenar should be clear of NPC pirates? Any players attempting piracy there should also have a heavy bunch of system security drop on them seconds after they have interdicted a “clean” status player. Conversely, anyone trying to trade (or even fly through) an anarchy system should have to face the consequences, though the rewards for trading there should be much higher to reflect the fact that it’s not safe to haul goods there). I’m not going to go into Open / Group / Solo and PvP because it’s being discussed hundreds of times, but it is also a factor in how people should be able to enjoy the game.

The live streams this week might show a move towards this in the future with the security status of the system you are jumping to now being shown, but when (if) it actually happens is anyone’s guess.

Like many players here, I have very fond memories of playing Elite back in ’84 on a BBC Model B. My playstyle now is very similar to what it was then – sometimes a bit of bounty hunting, then some trading for a few nights to upgrade the ship, then some exploring and so on. Not everyone wants that though, and I hope that FDev don’t end up losing the “Euro Truckers in Space” players in favour of hardcore combat players. Are there other ways that FDev could keep the playstyle of the back-and forth space trucker? Do they actually need to do more? It’s a big galaxy – surely there could be enough differences in the safety of systems to give everyone a chance to play.




Just for accuracy, here is the actual quote mentioned at the start of this post. To me, possibly the most misguided idea in the history of gaming:
We really just needed to make the game a lot more accessible to a much broader player base. There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves.
Nancy MacIntyre, Senior Director for SWG at Lucasarts.

Yup. If I am hauling biowaste around SOL system and get jumped by Thargoids, I am going to be very upset.

 

[nats]

I agree with the OP the game is far too difficult now to the point of being painful to play it, I didnt quite realise until I started playing a few days ago how bad it is now. Traders and peaceful types should be able to play the game and survive reasonably well, but in the present state you just cannot do this. I am also thinking of selling my Asp and getting a cheap ship like a Sidewinder or Viper again just because I dont want to lose all my money on the constant insurance payments I am making lately.

And I mean these battles I am losing are against single ships like Cobras and Clippers, not just Vultures, but they all seem to get my shields down in seconds and before I know where I am they have reduced my hull to 75%. There is no time to react or anything, its just a complete panic and it isnt pleasant at all. That isnt the sort of game I want to play thank you. So I have changed to solo rather than my normal open game, and STILL the NPCs are destroying me every time.

Its useless, game is going down the pan rapidly. I just dont want this after a hard day at work.

Shields need upgrading in power to 200% at least to cater for the more powerful weapons, not to mention hull strength. I want my combat to last for a while not be over in ten seconds. It was much better in the Beta and even before the Engineer's add-on - I enjoyed the combat then..

 

[DNA-Decay]

And Bob's your uncle... No wait... What?

Bob's your auntie's live in lover.

cant say I agree with OP.
Casual gamerdad here.
middling member of prestigious player group.
that has things set up to cater for casuals and powergamers alike.

Scored a Python in a get rich quick (non slavery) reward.
hovering below rebuy a month later.

PowerPlay pledged and always got some stupid reward mats onboard due to endless mission running.
Dont hat the interdictions.