No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Brett C]

This is a continuation of the previous thread here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789.

The previous thread has reached 10,000 replies, and has become rather large. Rather shutting everyone out of the original thread, we'd like to direct your attention to this thread to continue the discussion of the 'No offline mode' discussion.

Please remember to be on-topic and respectful to your fellow forum members while discussing this issue. Posts that are not in adherence to the forum rules will be moderated. Thanks for understanding.

---

News update; quote added below.

Hi All,

I want to keep you all updated.

We initially declined some people's request for refund as our records showed they have already played Elite: Dangerous online. After listening to many of the comments I received after my AMA here, we have since re-opened these requests and informed those people that we will be contacting them so that we can fully understand their individual situation before making a more informed decision.

We will be contacting them each in the next few working days.

Thanks,

David

Source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60916&page=51&p=1040285#post1040285

 

[Deyn]

Thanks for not just closing this down, appreciated the explanation.

 

[Harbinger]

Everything has already been said many times over. Whichever side of the argument you are on it's essentially just now.

 

[Warbler]

Buying in to the Beta explicitly says that you're buying into the beta.

I think there's a good faith thing to be considered here. I wonder how a judge would look at this because FD had laid their cards on that table with regards to what the finished game would be like and selling beta was only part of the overall aim of aquiring it. Nobody buys beta without wanting the full game, that is what you're buying into here. Not to pay to test a game but to have access to a copy of it, that's the incentive to hand over your money.

 

[Deyn]

Hopefully this next thread will be more constructive (probably not)

Like in "if you want offline mode, shut up and go away?" - I don't think so... may be people notice that this attacking people for their concerns is just fuelling their anger and may be have the adverse effect?

I guess most of the damage is already done, and may never be fixed.

No accusations or trolling, just a fact. I hope it does end well, for the game, as it would be a pity to not only lose offline mode, but the whole game.

 

[KillTaker]

I wish FD would do the right thing and refund those who made the purchase because of the OFFLINE mode. I know this is an assumption on my part, but they probably new from early Alpha that there was going to be a constant internet connection required in order to play. What company drops a bomb like that right before the game is released?

Didnt Blizzard for warn their customers way before hand that Diablo 3 was going to require an internet connection in order to play? I know there was a lot of moaning about that, but at least they gave a decent amount of time for a heads up?

 

[littleminxundr]

I think there's a good faith thing to be considered here. I wonder how a judge would look at this because FD had laid their cards on that table with regards to what the finished game would be like and selling beta was only part of the overall aim of aquiring it. Nobody buys beta without wanting the full game, that is what you're buying into here. Not to pay to test a game but to have access to a copy of it, that's the incentive to hand over your money.

Yes, but moe is not a legal defence.
What you bought and what you get when you went with the beta has been delivered in full and is still being delivered in full.
And you even get more than what's described; access to Gamma.

 

[Fasty]

I know this might not make everyone mad but I bought this game for offline mode. Right before release they tell everyone that offline mode is no longer offline and never will be. So I attempted to get a refund and was hit with you've already downloaded the beta. How is making an offline game to online only not refundable. So what If I've downloaded the beta. I bought the game about three weeks ago and in that time period the game went from offline to online only.

"I would have had no issue with the ethics of Frontier and David Braben if they had offered full refunds to anyone who wanted them after announcing that they were pulling offline support. But they didn't do that. They are nitpicking legal loopholes so they can keep their backers' money after kicking them to the curb. THAT is what is unethical and the source of the backlash."

Did you download and play it? Or just download it? If you played it then it can't be *entirely* worthless. But having said that I still don't agree with their refund policy.

 

[fatal]

So, anyone have any ideas why exactly Braben said "Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty"?

Did he just suggested that all previous Elites was also "empty" in his view?
Or they just built ED in such a way that there are not much in the program and algorithms, but they expecting to feed most of the stuff manually along the way after release?

 

[foxpur]

My thoughts here...

We know the details and what is happening and why..
-If you are still here to Beta, please get to it and enjoy the game on release.
-If you have decided to go for a morale removal of the game why bother staying in the forum, you chose to give it up. I appreciate you standing by your morality to that level. I salute your passing but I'm staying in it for the long run.
-If you cancelled, we are terribly sorry to see you leave, I wanted it too, but this as a online is ok for me as long as my ISP feeds the mice more often. -For those that are waiting for release day, as long as you don't need a offline node I honestly feel there is enough on this games and planned future expansions to make it worth the price.
-And lastly, for those that haven't decided yet, we have a very... vocal group here, but best wants the vids and see those that are playing and ask questions about the game, if you have them, no matter how weird they sound, we will try to answer them if we can...

Make up your own mind. Don't let others tell you what to think. Get the facts, and you choose.

Fox

 

[KillTaker]

DB said they CHOSE not to go the offline route due to it would be empty. They drop this info this week right before their Gamma release party deal. I bought into beta this past weekend wanting to utilize the offline mode for Gamma...well i download the game because I have access to internet on the weekends and get everything set for playing....then bam! "Oh by the way there will not be an offline mode we are dropping that!" Ok fine...I would like a refund then? I'm still waiting to hear back about that. Hopefully FD comes through.

 

[Baragoon]

I am disappointed.

Disappointed in:

• the fact I will not be able to play this game at my leisure, and that outside factors coming to my computer via the internet will have an impact my gameplay.
• those attacking the decision to drop offline gameplay with such bile and venom as though this game has caused the death of their entire family and life is now meaningless.
• those defending the decision and showing a distinct lack of understanding or compassion for those that feel slighted by the decision.
• Mr. Brabbens' and FDs' handling of this entire situation (this is the most disappointing of all).

This is a really ugly time in the games development and the ugly is from both sides. Angry over-the-top responses from the community I can expect, and would have been surprised if they didn't happen. But the cold hearted responses from Mr. Brabben and his company on this issue is appalling to say the least. It seems that money is the only concern to them with this issue, and making the best gaming experience is secondary. Generating community goodwill by FD seems to be non-existent now.

I am just saddened by this entire debacle and see no good resolution in sight while both sides dig in and sling fecces at each other like our forefathers did thousands of years ago.

Disclaimer: For the record, I did seek information on obtaining a refund, but have not asked for one.

 

[ChickenBandit]

Everything has already been said many times over. Whichever side of the argument you are on it's essentially just View attachment 1897 now.

I, and I imagine most others against always online DRM, would be more than happy to shut up if we could just get our refunds.

 

[foxpur]

So, anyone have any ideas why exactly Braben said "Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty"?

Did he just suggested that all previous Elites was also "empty" in his view?
Or they just built ED in such a way that there are not much in the program and algorithms, but they expecting to feed most of the stuff manually?

If you go to the store and see 2 bottles of soda on the shelf, one is 2x the size and full (and never needs refilled), the other is empty to about 1/3 and both the same cost... Most will want the larger one.

 

[Warbler]

Yes, but moe is not a legal defence.
What you bought and what you get when you went with the beta has been delivered in full and is still being delivered in full.
And you even get more than what's described; access to Gamma.

But if you made the purchase based on the information that was available about the game you might have a reason for a refund. If you feel that you've been cheated then you should look for one.

 

[Erna Jedermann]

So, anyone have any ideas why exactly Braben said "Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty"?

Did he just suggested that all previous Elites was also "empty" in his view?
Or they just built ED in such a way that there are not much in the program and algorithms, but they expecting to feed most of the stuff manually?

It will be without THE VISON. ....and I worry that not all will like it....

 

[ChickenBandit]

Given Braben's own claim that the game is only using 10 kb/s of bandwidth in online solo, it sounds like their really isn't terribly much going on on the server-side of things other than grouping players together. In fact his statements amount that really just reiterate how needless an always online requirement really is.

 

[ChickenBandit]

Yes, but moe is not a legal defence.
What you bought and what you get when you went with the beta has been delivered in full and is still being delivered in full.
And you even get more than what's described; access to Gamma.

Myself, and many others, would not have bought into the beta if we knew there would be no offline mode at a later date. Them getting our money to begin with was dependent on their promise of an offline mode, the fact that offline mode wasn't available in the initial beta release is irrelevant.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

My thoughts here...

We know the details and what is happening and why..
-If you are still here to Beta, please get to it and enjoy the game on release.
-If you have decided to go for a morale removal of the game why bother staying in the forum, you chose to give it up. I appreciate you standing by your morality to that level. I salute your passing but I'm staying in it for the long run.
-If you cancelled, we are terribly sorry to see you leave, I wanted it too, but this as a online is ok for me as long as my ISP feeds the mice more often. -For those that are waiting for release day, as long as you don't need a offline node I honestly feel there is enough on this games and planned future expansions to make it worth the price.
-And lastly, for those that haven't decided yet, we have a very... vocal group here, but best wants the vids and see those that are playing and ask questions about the game, if you have them, no matter how weird they sound, we will try to answer them if we can...

Make up your own mind. Don't let others tell you what to think. Get the facts, and you choose.

Fox

I'll be happy to leave as soon as I get my money back.

 

[fatal]

If you go to the store and see 2 bottles of soda on the shelf, one is 2x the size and full (and never needs refilled), the other is empty to about 1/3 and both the same cost... Most will want the larger one.

That's why no one sells 1/3 empty bottles of soda. Because no one would buy.

More related to the ED offline case: imagine you buy the 1/3 filled bottle of beer with free refills, but you don't know (and they don't know) what they will give you next time, maybe just some soda

 

[foxpur]

I've posted my thoughts on all the major forums to try show the true ethics of Frontier and David Braben.

This is a total sham to all the offline users.

Staying on a forum to just insult the people running is not going to accomplish much except make you look like a disgruntled petulant child. I know you mean well, but that isn't how it comes across.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

That's why no one sells 1/3 empty bottles of soda. Because no one would buy.

More related to the ED offline case: imagine you buy the 1/3 filled bottle of beer with free refills, but you don't know (and they don't know) what they will give you next time, maybe just some soda

hehhehe, this would just get sillier, I'll stick with mine and stop there... The point is, they AREN'T gonna sell it, so they pulled it off the shuelf. That was my point.