Non-combat ships vs Players in Uber-Combat Ships

[Commander Salter]

Dear forum people,

Could I borrow the use of some of your collective experience?

Every now and again (such as last night), I'll get pulled out of supercruise in my explorer by another player in an uber-combat ship, who says not a word and is already firing by the time we instance.

Whenever this happens, they seem to be using an "impulse attack, trajectory affected" weapon, of some crazy-powerful kind that kills in about five shots.

Now, while part of me is tempted to wonder what the appeal of this is (vs a clearly non-combat slanted ship, without asking for cargo etc), I'm probably better off assuming that it's down to some deep seated and ultimately tedious psychological thing, and just blocking them post-mortem while I'm re-buying.

So, my question is: have any of you found a decent tactic for surviving these boring encounters? Specifically, when you're not in your combat ship (which would provide an obvious answer!)

My tactic with NPC pirates in that situation would be to immediately submit to interdiction, and then just boost continuously away at 500 (2 pips in shields, 4 pips in engines) until I can go back to supercruise. They can't do any noticeable damage to my shields when I'm getting further away at that rate.

With these players, that tactic is totally ineffective - I'm dead before my FSD cooldown is over. I didn't have time to see what ship they were in, so I don't know whether it's just that they're fast enough that keeping up with a retreat at 500 is no problem, or whether it's to do with the whole "impulse attack" thing. Have any of you used that kind of weapon? What's the effect from the user's point of view, when attacking a fast-fleeing ship?

Depending on the answer to that, have you found any way of countering it (in a non-combat ship, long enough to get away)?

Or, for interdictions without the obvious NPC pirate/police comms message (i.e. where it's presumably a commander), is fighting the interdiction mini-game (which I never bother with for NPCs) the better bet?

Any thoughts/anecdotes gratefully and curiously received!

Cheers

Commander Salter


[Edited for auto-correct spellings!]

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Longrange weapons don't have any falloff in damageand a 6km range, a PvP FDL does easily 560m/s and he has a class 4 hardpoint.
If you are not outfitted for combat or for open-survive....you won't survive.
To highwake you need at least 15 seconds time (more if attacking cmdr has FSD disruption missiles). So take a class higher on the shieldgenerator, learn evasive maneuvers (facing opponent and boosting so that he has to turn) and use all the defense modules we have properly.
Check always your radar!!!!!! Someone lining up on you indicates an attack, you can prevent them interdicting you early! Check the system!!! If you are at founders World, engineer systems or capitols you should ALWAYS expect hostility and you should also be proper prepared for this

If i really wanna kill someone else and he is not outfitted properly, he has no chance. So get some real defense on your ship instead lowest class shields

Oh and before i forget it..... use 4-2-0 on pips!

 

[Commander Salter]

Some useful stuff there, thanks!

I do already have good shields and armour, engineered - there's nothing more I can do to the ship without making it ineffective as an explorer, sadly.

I'll give that 4-2-0 a try, and I like the sound of the boosting towards.

Your radar tip sounds particularly useful - how do you spot the 'lining up', as opposed to just 'falling behind you because they're going the other way'?

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

Sounds like you got shot by railguns. Increasing thermal resistance on shields can help a little. Get some mine launchers with reverb thing . Probably won't kill anyone but it might distract or startle them... maybe. Other than stack more shield boosters, all you can do is avoid high traffic areas.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Some useful stuff there, thanks!

I do already have good shields and armour, engineered - there's nothing more I can do to the ship without making it ineffective as an explorer, sadly.

I'll give that 4-2-0 a try, and I like the sound of the boosting towards.

Your radar tip sounds particularly useful - how do you spot the 'lining up', as opposed to just 'falling behind you because they're going the other way'?

Explorer??? Bad luck! In that case stay out of open!
Join a private group like Fleetcomm especially for explorers. Any ship fitted for exploration never has a chance to even reach those 15 seconds to survive and your attacker know that. They see the scanners and stuff in your modules.

Just avoid flying in open when being in an exploration ship. Sad but true

 

[Simon Templar]

In an explorer build I'm sorry but I don't think that there is a defence. Particularly after the advent of engineering (which I wish they hadn't brought in, as combat-related engineering is more potent than defensive engineering) then the only defence is properly hull/shield tanking so you can take a helluva shellacking before the FSD kicks in. And that will never fit with an explorer build. The gulf between top end combat ships and everything else when it comes to combat is such that even high security systems are a misnomer - the cops can't possibly get there in time to be any help at all.My solution to the same issue was simply to play in Solo. I realise that you don't want to do that, but if you don't then I think that getting used to the fact that you can be facing a rebuy screen at the whim of a passing bully is all you can do. Sorry. It does suck, though.

o7

 

[Bigmaec]

First, accept that's the current state of the game if you click on open. If you object, use another mode.

Second, don't call them psychopaths. Some propably are statistically, but they are players too. Annoying ones perhaps, but describing them with a clinical diagnosis is wrong.

Third, don't run away from murderboats, they are usually faster than you. As said pips to 4-2-0, boost towards target, immediately after entering a system select a neighbour system to jump away (highwake), low waking will take too long if mass-locked. Fit proper engineered shields, don't bother with fighting back. Wait out the timer, high wake away. Done.
If your shields aren't enough, fit proper engineered armour, hull reinforcement and a module reinforcement to don't get your modules sniped immediately.
Never go straight lines to CG/Jameson etc in supercruise if other players are in your instance. Check the bandwidth meter to see if you got company.

edit: Exploration build, yeah bad luck. D rated shields won't be enough.
You can theoretically soup up an Explorer with shields good enough to withstand attacks, but I'd rather switch to solo/PG and not let my playstyle be compromised by others.

 

[Commander Salter]

...Second, don't call them psychopaths. Some propably are statistically, but they are players too. Annoying ones perhaps, but describing them with a clinical diagnosis is wrong...

Sorry, I should have made that way clearer - I meant people playing as psychopath commanders in-game, not people who are psychopaths in real life!


[Bigmaec was referring to the original title of this thread, which was 'Non-combat ships vs psychopaths', in case you think he's gone mad!]

 

[Deleted member 182079]

The T7 is the only ship in which I actually managed to evade a PvP interdiction. Haven't managed with any other.

I normally do what Lucius above already described. Upon entering, look at the radar. Hollow triangles are a red flag (but don't always mean they're after you) and I do my utmost best to not let them get behind me, which 90% works - the 10% it doesn't is when I fly a whale of a ship that doesn't turn fast enough, there is more than 1 attacker or I want them to interdict me.

As soon as you submit, boost, turn your ship towards the enemy and boost again if you can. All pips to shields, 2 to engines unless you want to have a go fighting back. Try to get as close to them as possible while heading the opposite direction of them, but after you passed them don't fly in a straight line. FA Off with random direction changes helps, especially if you're in a small ship as it's harder to hit it with fixed weapons (which most gankers use in my experience).

While you do this, engage the FSD (assuming you already selected a system - although I got away lo-waking often enough if I'm in the bigger ship), and pop a heat sink for good measure which is useful if they locked on to you (missiles for example). If your shields drop, engage silent running (again more useful in a smaller ship). Careful not to fry your modules though so do it on and off to manage the heat.

Other than that, having good defenses makes a big difference. All my ships have the shields engineered, and thrusters maxed as much as possible. And each ship carries at least one point defence module.

With a bit of practice it's surprisingly easy to evade, although less so against a coordinated wing. That success so to speak has given me confidence to engage more in PvP, if not with the aim of winning but just wasting their time so that other players don't get hit - my favourite ship to do this in is my G5'd Railwinder. Took a guy in his gank-de-lance several minutes to take down, and only because I didn't have have PD fitted and he fired pack hounds at me.

Edit: In busy systems, it's worth taking the long way around, not the most direct route to your destination (prime example is Founders World). Or straightaway emergency-drop into normal space, boost-boost, supercruise again. Or jump out of the system and come back, in the hope the instance changed. Usually they overlook you or are to lazy to give chase as they simply pick the next victim. Also look out for l337 ship/player names and avatars with blue/green hair and face-tats etc.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

These are very, very helpful, mild profanity.

#1:
(basic older vid, no engineering)
[video=youtube;Uh9AWV_BWo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0[/video]


#2
(2 builds, plus engineering and guardian module related suggestions in this one, including evasion update).

[video=youtube;WkmgrFet5ac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmgrFet5ac[/video]


That out of the way, drop the tropes please.
It's unseemly and sad...

You are a fair target at any time.
Get over it.

 

[Shiro Akai]

To K.I.S.S. - you cant' counter such "encounter". Submit = rebuy. Sad but true.

Submitting and escaping may work on NPCs. Players that intend just to kill you are far above average in terms of preparation. Proper ship, proper build, probably extensive engineering for max pew-pew. They are not interested in talks, RP and such. All they want is you to see rebuy screen. So they fire at you the moment they appear in the instance.

The real solution for that is:
- blocking such players when you play in OPEN (post mortem action, does not prevent meeting new players)
- switching to SOLO (but loosing any kind of player interaction)
- applying for Moebius Private Group

I have done it myself - the Moebius option. I'm not PvP inclined, I do not wish to be an amusement for a trigger happy CMDR that needs to raise his self esteem by murdering unarmed traders. So I applied Moebius and fly there ever since. It's a private group where people want to fly in an OPEN scenario but without PvP part. PvP is allowed only when both parties consent to it. Situations like you described have no place.

Any real other suggestion is:
- arm your trader, train in combat, engineer the F out of your ship so when next meet you can return the favor. If you're that kind of CMDR, that is.

 

[Commander Salter]

Loads of good advice to try - thanks very much, you seven!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

In an explorer build I'm sorry but I don't think that there is a defence. Particularly after the advent of engineering (which I wish they hadn't brought in, as combat-related engineering is more potent than defensive engineering) then the only defence is properly hull/shield tanking so you can take a helluva shellacking before the FSD kicks in. And that will never fit with an explorer build. The gulf between top end combat ships and everything else when it comes to combat is such that even high security systems are a misnomer - the cops can't possibly get there in time to be any help at all.My solution to the same issue was simply to play in Solo. I realise that you don't want to do that, but if you don't then I think that getting used to the fact that you can be facing a rebuy screen at the whim of a passing bully is all you can do. Sorry. It does suck, though.

o7

No, it is not.

 

[Commander Salter]

That out of the way, drop the tropes please.
It's unseemly and sad...

You are a fair target at any time.
Get over it.

Sorry, what tropes? I'm well aware I'm always a fair target - I'm just asking for others' tactics for use when tageted!

Thanks for the vids - I'll check those out

 

[Bigmaec]

To K.I.S.S. - you cant' counter such "encounter". Submit = rebuy. Sad but true.

Submitting and escaping may work on NPCs. Players that intend just to kill you are far above average in terms of preparation. Proper ship, proper build, probably extensive engineering for max pew-pew. They are not interested in talks, RP and such. All they want is you to see rebuy screen. So they fire at you the moment they appear in the instance.

The real solution for that is:
- blocking such players when you play in OPEN (post mortem action, does not prevent meeting new players)
- switching to SOLO (but loosing any kind of player interaction)
- applying for Moebius Private Group

I have done it myself - the Moebius option. I'm not PvP inclined, I do not wish to be an amusement for a trigger happy CMDR that needs to raise his self esteem by murdering unarmed traders. So I applied Moebius and fly there ever since. It's a private group where people want to fly in an OPEN scenario but without PvP part. PvP is allowed only when both parties consent to it. Situations like you described have no place.

Any real other suggestion is:
- arm your trader, train in combat, engineer the F out of your ship so when next meet you can return the favor. If you're that kind of CMDR, that is.

I disagree with your advice of blocking. Blocking people who shoot you in game where shooting you is allowed is wrong imho.
If they harrass you, use exploits etc. that is another thing, but blocking just for shooting you? Hmmmmno...

And you can get away in most builds quite easily by the ways described upwards. Just not in a paper-thin explorer build, granted.
OP Give Mobius a try, I fly there too, much more relaxing then open if that's your playstyle.

 

[Heater]

With out seeing the build you are flying, hard to say, but always High Wake, and point defense for the missiles and torp's.

 

[Simon Templar]

No, it is not.

Lol I sense we're not going to have a constructive exchange! What has happened to this place this week?

I think a combat ship engineered to the max will have such an advantage over an explorer build that the explorer is dust. I meant that response in relation to the fact that we're talking about an explorer build. If you push the limits on defensive engineering (as I have with my armed trader) then you are no longer flying the sort of explorer build referred to in OP's post, imho.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Just caught up with the fact that the OP is flying an explorer build. I do fly my exploration ships in open but only if I don't carry vast amounts of explo data. Given they're engineered for lightweight mostly (other than the shields which are downsized to save mass) they'd get smoked in seconds.

 

[Bortas]

Good advice has already been given.

Have some rep for trying to learn survival tactics instead of complaining about evil PvP'ers. Denying gankers their kill can be as satisfying as outright destroying them

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I disagree with your advice of blocking. Blocking people who shoot you in game where shooting you is allowed is wrong imho.
If they harrass you, use exploits etc. that is another thing, but blocking just for shooting you? Hmmmmno...

And you can get away in most builds quite easily by the ways described upwards. Just not in a paper-thin explorer build, granted.
OP Give Mobius a try, I fly there too, much more relaxing then open if that's your playstyle.

I blocked a dozen or so players, simply because they ganked me in the true sense of the word (many vs one). I think they're weak cowards and don't deserve my presence as their in-game content

Don't mind getting shot out of space by a single player even if his ship is min-maxed, as I could in theory do the same to them if I had the inclination to engineer my ships that way (which I don't) and attack other players for whatever reason (which I don't, unless they're gankers).