Not a chance.

[Spacerschoice-00]

self destruct way more fun than try fighting 1 with a 3 multi cannons, diamond back explorer.
even have then 5a v1 engineered fsd still chain locked into the fight. what ever, just self destruct, dump ax restoration missions, pay fines, go elsewhere

 

[Fizzatron]

self destruct way more fun than try fighting 1 with a 3 multi cannons, diamond back explorer.
even have then 5a v1 engineered fsd still chain locked into the fight. what ever, just self destruct, dump ax restoration missions, pay fines, go elsewhere

Lowest effort response to new gameplay possibilities. Don't ever play Dark Souls, in fact, stick to Candy Crush.

 

[Spacerschoice-00]

Lowest effort response to new gameplay possibilities. Don't ever play Dark Souls, in fact, stick to Candy Crush.

-lowest effort would been not even trying to fight it.
too many ads.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Not quite, but in fairness I did actually look at all 27 pages of your thread (as it was) & to be honest, it was mainly a mix of players advising you that you were wrong, the rest was you poo pooing them for disagreeing with you. Apart from 2, maybe 3 people replying that they were having (some) difficulties & 1 player that couldn't cope with even basic gameplay almost everyone in there seemed to be ok with adapting to overcome.

So, replying justifiably to other people's posts is not what we should do in a Forum?

And you are incorrect. There were, and there are, far more than 2-3-4 people supporting my OP in that thread.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Behold the power of the Far God! Works for me.
Seriously though, every summer they have something that requires some thought.
It used to be go find and solve the encryption.
This time it's more about game mechanics which i like better because it's more in-game.
Humanity will adapt but why deny those who like working these things out.
It's all gonna end up in a yt vid at some point anyway.
Wars usually have an ebb and flow... after all.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

This has been the primary thing on my mind.

Indeed perhaps it has been designed as a counter to players showing up to AX combat with only scout/Interceptor hyperdiction/interdiction as a non-threat (I leave these encounters in most case without any damage, even shieldless).

The Glaive would appear to be designed with two new AX elements in mind:
1. Ensure players arrive at AX combat zones damaged. (many combat sites have options for repairs, so it's not AX breaking)

That might be one of the purposes, yes. Maybe to add more excitement to the player ?

2. Ensure AX loadouts are non-optimized for Interceptor combat. (install-kill boats)

But there would have been better ways to do it, like not having released the Weapons Stabilizer.

No CMDRs I know who have encountered Glaves are talking about winning the encounter with no damage. And most are discussing how their AX Interceptor ship builds will need a rethink/rebuild/re-engineer. Especially those which are heavy on Guardian modules.
I could well be wrong. I've not gone back out into Thargoid territory since the Glaives appeared. I've wondered whether the Plasma/Gauss insta-kill boats are still a thing. My old Guardian AX build likely won't get me in there to see, based on what I'm hearing from other CMDRs.

I believe you correct. From my own experience with them, a pure Guardian Weapons build is no longer viable.

I and my CMDR friend had just completed the Guardian module unlocks two months ago... Took play sessions across 3 weeks, but we got them unlocked and they were nice upgrades against Interceptors (compared to Enhanced AX Multicannons). With full Guardian weapon loadouts, the two of us could handle a Cyclops decently. Having to add Enhanced AX MCs back into the Chieftain/Krait to counter Glaives on the way in will mean longer time-on-target once we reach Cyclops... And that longer time-on-target is going to mean more rebuys. (Been there already, which is why the effort we made on the Guardian unlocks )

It's doable. We just have to rebuild/re-engineer and then... git more gud.

Yes, adaptation it is possible. But the question that is starting to be clear is can we keep getting more different weapons and, specially, modules in some of the current medium AX ships? We are running out of space.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I disagree. If you're doing a run, having enhanced AX missiles & multicannons should take care of the problem on most builds, others it's high-waking. Then it's a matter of repairing at the destination, as you would refuel. They are scouts with added aggro.

I do not think a Scout can compare to a Glaive. I find a pack of 7-8 15.02 Scouts less dangerous than a Glaive.

As I mentioned already above, everyone repairs & refuels at their destination. It is literally nothing that isn't done already.

But it won't be the same if the player only has a number of Space AX CZs in that system.

Rescue missions are about going into an active war zone and, shock horror, rescuing people from danger. If a comfortable A-B route is desired, there are many passenger missions found everywhere in the bubble to do. You are literally trying to make an argument that the Thargoid rescue missions should work exactly like those.

In my unarmed Dolphin, I lasted 8 minutes while trying to work out methods to escape without having to high-wake. None of that worked, so I ended up high-waking. It's much ado about nothing, so much so, that I think those who are taking this position really aren't doing so in good faith.

People will have to adjust their builds to factor in a new, and reasonably easy, foe to contend with. Frontier bad.

I understand your point. I am inclined to agree that it will feel more like a War Evacuation than before.

However, I do have some regret for not being able to use my cold and fast Dolphin / Orca for those missions.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I completed a solo ground AX zone with enhanced AX missiles and multicannons - though not the 'bonus' Hydras, to be fair. Sure, it's not as immediate as Shards, but it was fun, even more so when winging up in open. It's totally doable, and if Glaives enter that instance when you're running Shards etc.. then immediately take it out. It's not that much different when it comes to the Orthrus.

How did you fare against Basilisks ? Did any Medusas show up ?

 

[Planewalker]

I agree that the first part can be true, but harsh truth isn't always constructive though, that's what I'm saying, and is more of a last resort than anything - and if one feels that is the only thing that's warranted then it's worth reevaluating whether it's them, or you blowing something out of proportion, or the one in error - no-one is always right. The context and situation is a large determining factor.

Indeed, i could have emphasized that i was referring to the contructive in constructive critique so my bad.

 

[shockbait]

How did you fare against Basilisks ? Did any Medusas show up ?

I'm not Fizzatron, but as an AX newb that almost exclusively uses Human AX weapons, Basilisks are still killable for me.

Krait MkII - 2 Large Gimballed AXMCs, 1 Large Fixed AX Missile Rack, 2 Medium Fixed AX Missile Rack

It takes 5-6 volleys in quick succession from the AX Missiles to exert the hearts, but the AXMCs chew through them just the same as a Cyclops heart. Moving fast/cold enough to avoid the cannon fire is more important than in a Cyclops fight, which any decently tanked ship can just ignore.(Though I still try to avoid as much fire as possible, my minigame is seeing how many Interceptors I can solo without landing to repair/rearm, my record is 3 and a half Cyclops')

I have not seen a Medusa at a planetary port AXCZ, but I have tried to fight one using that build at an Outpost AXCZ. I was unable to exert it, though I may have been panicking too much from the Swarm to land enough consecutive Missile hits. Doesn't really bother me, as I consider Medusas and Hydras Wing-Bosses, that should not be Solo-able by ANYONE less than the most Ace Pilots, challenging themselves to a "Dark Souls Hard Mode" style fight. It should have never been made possible for randos through the Weapon Stabilizers and Salvation weapons, and I see the Glaive as the way to rectify that. The only problem is it seems to also block those "Ace Pilots" from being able to hunt those bosses Solo due to it's RNG appearances.

In relation to this thread, that Krait build above mows Glaives down like they're scouts, can perform light Titan operations(swap out EXS and SFN), can easily kill multiple Cyclops' in a row, and with minor difficulty, kill a Basilisk. I don't fly it that much anymore because it feels overpowered, and have switched to Meme-Mambas and small ships, like a 630m/s Viper III. Still have yet to die or High Wake from a Glaive.

 

[Jmanis]

How did you fare against Basilisks ? Did any Medusas show up ?

If it could fare fine against them, particularly medusas, FD would have just replaced one meta with another, and we'd have players complaining about power creep.

I don't see any problem with having to make a choice here, though I'd note that it doesn't sound unreasonable to restrict glaives to only Very High CZs, if they are in CZs at all.

 

[SasaThargoidsHunter]

Again, just reading the forum or watching non-clickbait youtubers would provide a very good way to figure out how to deal with these new foes. Any long-time player (as OP claims to be) would know to do that. But instead, let's post an inflammatory FUD piece instead.

Hey im still an Long player too and had issues with elite m, it could be possible be an long player and disagree with some very annoying things like long term bugs which didn’t fixed semi good and so on . It’s implied slightly that any long player had to learn to live with some trash codes there and bad decisions here. Yes the OP could try to figure new ways out and so on. But to insist the opinion that every long player live with bad design or what ever, isn’t the best way. Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted it, but when not, then the so called constantly ignoring issues or other things longplayer are the reason for a couple of issues which get down for example on the issue tracker. And for what? Because we had played elite so long that we know we must do workarounds and other stuff which was and is clearly didn’t work as intended.

So when this is your opinion then thanks you and all of the other caretaker due to ignoring issues.

When it’s not your opinion than apologies from my hearth.

Ps: could we please stop this constant resorted Doom thing? Some issues should be allowed to be raised without some guys comes out the woods to carebearing. It is in the same way annyoing like to read elite is dead threats. Ok on console it’s dead but hey let stick to the true

 

[Fizzatron]

I do not think a Scout can compare to a Glaive. I find a pack of 7-8 15.02 Scouts less dangerous than a Glaive.

That would entirely depend on your build. I was in a Dolphin without weapons though I have HRPs and G5 Dirty Drive, so in this case, I could boost away from 8 scouts without getting hit too much. However, if my drives were not as engineered and I couldn't get away so well, I don't think I would have lasted 8 mins with 8 scouts vs one Glaive.

But it won't be the same if the player only has a number of Space AX CZs in that system.

We're kinda pivoting around here, my initial response was in regards to people doing rescue missions which do have a port as a starting and an end point.

If we're now talking about doing AXCZs that aren't around ports, then sure, it's going to be an additional consideration, but not insurmountable. I was doing my AX combat with a Anaconda with EAX Multis & Missiles, which was good enough in a surface AXCZ to deal with a Basilisk solo, though with a few trips to the landing pad to repair. I'm not an AX expert so I'm not doing cold orbiting or anything like tha, but I was able to win the battle on a few occasions. However, for someone proficient in AX, I think dealing withe Glaives becomes more of what I said, an additional consideration and not game breaking at all.

I understand your point. I am inclined to agree that it will feel more like a War Evacuation than before.

However, I do have some regret for not being able to use my cold and fast Dolphin / Orca for those missions.

I mean, I wouldn't say you can't. o7

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

I'm not Fizzatron, but as an AX newb that almost exclusively uses Human AX weapons, Basilisks are still killable for me.

Krait MkII - 2 Large Gimballed AXMCs, 1 Large Fixed AX Missile Rack, 2 Medium Fixed AX Missile Rack

Before unlocking Guardian modules, I used this Human AX Krait MK II to kill Scouts, Cyclops and the occasional Basilisk (not easy) in Starport / Outpost / Planetary AX CZs.

It takes 5-6 volleys in quick succession from the AX Missiles to exert the hearts, but the AXMCs chew through them just the same as a Cyclops heart. Moving fast/cold enough to avoid the cannon fire is more important than in a Cyclops fight, which any decently tanked ship can just ignore.(Though I still try to avoid as much fire as possible, my minigame is seeing how many Interceptors I can solo without landing to repair/rearm, my record is 3 and a half Cyclops')

Yes. I try to keep as cool as possible with the Heatsinks (and Beam), while Cold Orbiting, to avoid the canon.

I had good results with the Krait after I changed the AX Missiles to Mod Shards or Mod PCs, since I could disengage (531m/s) at will and repair without being caught, but, my AX Challenger (490m/s) was better for Planetary AX CZs due to its better maneuverability, stronger lateral thrusters and higher armour.

I have not seen a Medusa at a planetary port AXCZ, but I have tried to fight one using that build at an Outpost AXCZ.

I have seen them and fought them at both of those types of AX CZs, but they are rare. It did not go well when in solo with the Human AX build. In a wing, however, Medusas are feasible with Human AX builds, as long as the other wingmen use Guardian weapons to make most of the job...

I was unable to exert it, though I may have been panicking too much from the Swarm to land enough consecutive Missile hits.

The Swarm really complicates things because, if one installs a Flak Launcher to deal with the Thargons, it sacrifices firepower to exert and destroy the Medusa's hearts. And with the lower firepower that Human AX weapons have, it makes it impossible for to me to deal with it.

Doesn't really bother me, as I consider Medusas and Hydras Wing-Bosses, that should not be Solo-able by ANYONE less than the most Ace Pilots, challenging themselves to a "Dark Souls Hard Mode" style fight.

I happen to agree.

It should have never been made possible for randos through the Weapon Stabilizers and Salvation weapons

Medusas and Hydras are not really taken solo by "randos", even when using gib boats. They are still very hard and you have to go through every heart and shield.

and I see the Glaive as the way to rectify that. The only problem is it seems to also block those "Ace Pilots" from being able to hunt those bosses Solo due to it's RNG appearances.

A good point you mention here. I find that the current implementation of Glaives is a lazy solution and a crude tool to deal with any excess Guardian Weapons firepower.

And if FDev was so concerned about that, why did they release the Weapons Stabilizers in the first place? Just limit Human AX to 6 and keep Guardian at 4. No complications necessary...

In relation to this thread, that Krait build above mows Glaives down like they're scouts, can perform light Titan operations(swap out EXS and SFN), can easily kill multiple Cyclops' in a row, and with minor difficulty, kill a Basilisk. I don't fly it that much anymore because it feels overpowered, and have switched to Meme-Mambas and small ships, like a 630m/s Viper III. Still have yet to die or High Wake from a Glaive.

I had a scare with my Challenger build above (my first Glaive contact), where I had to High Wake.

I am currently using this Glaive Hunter AX Krait to hunt the Glaive Hunter class ships. They are a good source for Caustic Shards, that I need to unblock the Caustic Sink Launcher.



EDIT: Typos...

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

If it could fare fine against them, particularly medusas, FD would have just replaced one meta with another, and we'd have players complaining about power creep.

Agreed.

I don't see any problem with having to make a choice here, though I'd note that it doesn't sound unreasonable to restrict glaives to only Very High CZs, if they are in CZs at all.

Oh, they are !! Rest assured that I have fought them in Outpost and Planetary AX CZs. I killed my first 3 in a Planetary CZ a few weeks ago.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

That would entirely depend on your build. I was in a Dolphin without weapons though I have HRPs and G5 Dirty Drive, so in this case, I could boost away from 8 scouts without getting hit too much. However, if my drives were not as engineered and I couldn't get away so well, I don't think I would have lasted 8 mins with 8 scouts vs one Glaive.

Well, Scouts are so slow that even with mild engineering you can evade and control the engagement. Not so with Glaives.

But different methods of evasion / combat must be applied to each. So, it might be different, depending on player and ship build.

We're kinda pivoting around here, my initial response was in regards to people doing rescue missions which do have a port as a starting and an end point.

Ok. I misunderstood.

If we're now talking about doing AXCZs that aren't around ports, then sure, it's going to be an additional consideration, but not insurmountable.

Repair Limpets / AFMU are capable of dealing with hull / modules, but when a Glaive is around at a Space AX CZ, and you have a full Guardian Weapons build, you get less than 60 seconds to deal with it (provided you have seen it as soon as it dropped) or you will have to High Wake out of there. There is no other solution in that situation.

I was doing my AX combat with a Anaconda with EAX Multis & Missiles, which was good enough in a surface AXCZ to deal with a Basilisk solo, though with a few trips to the landing pad to repair. I'm not an AX expert so I'm not doing cold orbiting or anything like tha, but I was able to win the battle on a few occasions. However, for someone proficient in AX, I think dealing withe Glaives becomes more of what I said, an additional consideration and not game breaking at all.

It is a situation that is now highly dependent on ship build, circumstances and pilot awareness, much more than pilot skill. It can be straightforward or go horribly wrong.

View attachment 358190

I mean, I wouldn't say you can't. o7

That is no starport for me to load my evacuees...

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

@Uiros ueromos
It doesn't matter how many ppl like any post.
Here's some food for thought.
A while back FD said they were gonna try something different and i suspect this is what they were alluding to.
At the end of the day, FD will decide if it has any merit to it.
Just how it works...

 

[Havoc4U]

Including a glaive hyperdiction I've still been able to get to the maelstrom in an unengineered DBX (albeit with chonk armour + biweave).
A soon as you get ripped into normal space, FAoff, boost away from them and heatsink. Should give you enough time to high wake again.
In the maelstrom system just never fly in a straight line. I do one massive barrel roll from star to maelstrom. If you get it right you won't be interdicted once.
Easy

yea after doing this 6 times one of the times I still had to go 3-4 min then right before getting to the cloud I got ripped a 7th time in between planet & rings but it broke off by chance still all that to reach the cloud is then get to cloud and melt HAHA not worth it

 

[Fizzatron]

Hey im still an Long player too and had issues with elite m, it could be possible be an long player and disagree with some very annoying things like long term bugs which didn’t fixed semi good and so on . It’s implied slightly that any long player had to learn to live with some trash codes there and bad decisions here. Yes the OP could try to figure new ways out and so on. But to insist the opinion that every long player live with bad design or what ever, isn’t the best way. Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted it, but when not, then the so called constantly ignoring issues or other things longplayer are the reason for a couple of issues which get down for example on the issue tracker. And for what? Because we had played elite so long that we know we must do workarounds and other stuff which was and is clearly didn’t work as intended.

That is a separate scenario to what OP presents. The Glaives are changing the meta, that isn't the same thing as what you're describing. My pointing out the claim of OP being a long time player points out the disparity of somehow not knowing to check out some tutorials about it if one is having problems. The main point that it's a skill issue we're talking about, not just another reason to call Frontier bad, which OP immediately jumped to.

When it’s not your opinion than apologies from my hearth.

I hope it's clearer now?

Ps: could we please stop this constant resorted Doom thing? Some issues should be allowed to be raised without some guys comes out the woods to carebearing. It is in the same way annyoing like to read elite is dead threats. Ok on console it’s dead but hey let stick to the true

I would love to see it personally. Bringing shade and salt into what is either an issue that needs to be resolved on Frontier's part, or the player's part, doesn't do anyone good and just opens the door for that sort of thing. I hope you agree. I'm not saying I've never been frustrated or unhappy about this or that feature and that Frontier have only ever been 100% perfect, but they're by far less this incompetent doddering amateur outfit that some like to suggest either.