Now that 3.0 is out, can you PLEASE focus on fixing these Multicrew/Wing problems?

And I'm not referring in this case to performance issues, which I feel don't need explaining and already have been getting addressed more and more as time goes on.

No, I'm talking about the following particular problems:


((A)) NPC crew member permadeath.
This thread, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/288943-Frontier-Please-Don-t-Kill-Our-Crew! , first started in September of 2016, has had near-unanimous responses from the community to REMOVE the permadeath of crewmembers. And it is just one such example, many other similar threads exist both here and on the Elite Dangerous subreddit.
Fdev, nobody - or near enough to it - is enjoying the permadeath nonsense. Do away with it with all haste, please!

Late 2021 edit - been addressed!


((B)) Experience reduction when in a crew or wing of any kind.

See my thread here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...t-experience?p=6179692&viewfull=1#post6179692

For those unaware, combat XP is divided by how many crew and/or wing members are present with you, whether NPC or human - that is, bare minimum, you are losing 50% of XP gains and what you do get is reduced to a smaller and smaller fraction the more crew/wing members are there.

I see absolutely no reason that we should be actively punished for participating in a wing/crew. Being able to get kills faster, and thereby XP faster, should be a clear and obvious benefit of bothering to group up in the first place for wing/crew activities. It's not a pushover to find other players or to train up an NPC, nor is it true that having a wing/crew member directly correlates with getting twice, thrice, or four times and more the amount of kills in the same space of time - far from it!

With the system we have now, where combat rank is determined primarly by sheer quantity of kills as though Elite Dangerous is some kind of horde shooter, this XP gain reduction is nothing short of crippling. It makes having a wing or crew completely counter-productive and unappealing.

Oh, and if you've already bothered to work on a crew NPC? You're stuck between three quite ugly choices: Dismiss the crewmember and lose ALL your progress, just as bad as Permadeath; take twice as long (or worse) to gain combat XP no matter what the situation; or 'store' the NPC where it will still take full share of your earnings while doing absolutely nothing.

Which brings us to a third problem:


((C)) NPC crew taking exorbitant amounts of pay even when not in use - in other words, no way to set NPC crew to truely inactive status.

I personally don't think that taking a full percentage cut of player income is warranted, for what we get - the only real function NPC crew can serve is a minor combat enhancement at best, and that is if you bother training them up first.

But even with that, it's especially unfair that they continue to take that cut even when they are not aboard your ship and cannot possibly be performing any kind of service for you whatsoever.

That's nonsense, and nonsense needs to be stopped.


((D)) Being unable to see NPC crew on the bridge of our ships.

Again, this is something I've seen multiple threads with a unanimous voice, both here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/326255-NPC-crew-visible
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...t-Time-our-NPC-Crew-took-Seats-in-the-Cockpit

and on reddit:
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4z53dg/22_npc_crew_please_tell_me_we_can_see_them_in_the/


ever since Multicrew was implemented.

Those are just the first 3 links I was able to pull via a single google-search.

So, same as with the permadeath problem - Fdev, please listen to the community on this, and make it possible to see our crew as we are sitting in the pilot's chair! They can just be simply sitting there playing with their hair for all many of us care, just let us physically SEE them as something other than a character portrait and occasional voice on the comms.
 
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A polite "yes please" to all of the above. Mostly A and D.

And if we're talking about multicrew stuff... please please please do whatever it takes to un-restrict multicrew so we can use it more. SRVs especially, but also stuff like being able to do outfitting with crew aboard.
 
I pretty much agree with A and D. For C, well, the npc's seem to have got some good pilot's federation sub-union accords. For them they get a far better deal than their old 10 credits/hour jobs planetside. They see us lucky independent pilots able to become millionaires or billionaires within weeks or months. We are still a lifetime opportunity for hiring them. So during their service, they can send their funds to significant others or buy their own cobra if they are lucky enough to leave the job before dying. So even if there were 100 million independent pilots in civilization , we would still be in the top .001%, among the wealthiest in a 10 trillion populated galaxy, haha.

That said, maybe with npc and rpg aspects with spacelegs in the future, npcs can finally be far more than fighter pilots, and multi-faceted crew members with escape pods, among many other extended gameplay features.
 
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I think the escape pod from the original game needs to be brought back. Your crew member gets shot up in SLF, escape pod launched. Want them back? Go scoop them up! Hurry! Z...

I would probably be okay with this, as long as the time limit on escape pod existence is generous, and a reliable system of locating said escape pod is in place, one that restores said crew member intact with the same features/name/rank and all.

__


I pretty much agree with A and D. For C, well, the npc's seem to have got some good pilot's federation sub-union accords. For them they get a far better deal than their old 10 credits/hour jobs planetside. They see us lucky independent pilots able to become millionaires or billionaires within weeks or months. We are still a lifetime opportunity for hiring them. So during their service, they can send their funds to significant others or buy their own cobra if they are lucky enough to leave the job before dying. So even if there were 100 million independent pilots in civilization , we would still be in the top .001%, among the wealthiest in a 10 trillion populated galaxy, haha.

That said, maybe with npc and rpg aspects with spacelegs in the future, npcs can finally be far more than fighter pilots, and multi-faceted crew members with escape pods, among many other extended gameplay features.

I don't think making billionaire in a month or two is what's intended, honestly, but that seems to be an ongoing, ever-evolving challenge.

I would love to see what you describe happen with NPCs; I feel like Sandro ought to pick up some Fire Emblem titles and take them for a spin (or, if you want to save time, look up the Let's Plays, which are entertaining and humorous to read). It's rather incredible how much characterization and emotional investment those games achieve with so little, if you think about it.

Just as a relatively smaller thought experiment, imagine that you've built up a crew of NPCs as a mining operation, in control of your mothership as your crew members operate modified SLFs (or maybe Sidewinders and Eagles modified to fit inside SLF hangars, cough cough hint hint), prospecting and mining rocks containing the metals/materials you've designated as desireable, while you are free to focus on managing the drones, refinery, and watching for the appearance of any space-faring predators.

Wouldn't that fit in perfectly with the theme of Elite?
 
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I would probably be okay with this, as long as the time limit on escape pod existence is generous, and a reliable system of locating said escape pod is in place, one that restores said crew member intact with the same features/name/rank and all.

...

This would be the point. The escape pods should last an infinite period, but it doesn't mean it won't get accidentally shot or rammed in the heat of combat (or picked off on purpose by a Troll AI). It ejects, boosts towards nearest best place for likely recovery, lets off a rescue beacon, and it's after you to get it back. This may or may not be possible depending on the state of your ship, intensity of combat and so on. But it seems like a perfect way of realistically implementing a way to keep your hard trained crew. I also can't imagine why they'd lose any experience or rank...

Z...
 
This would be the point. The escape pods should last an infinite period, but it doesn't mean it won't get accidentally shot or rammed in the heat of combat (or picked off on purpose by a Troll AI). It ejects, boosts towards nearest best place for likely recovery, lets off a rescue beacon, and it's after you to get it back. This may or may not be possible depending on the state of your ship, intensity of combat and so on. But it seems like a perfect way of realistically implementing a way to keep your hard trained crew. I also can't imagine why they'd lose any experience or rank...

Z...

Well, you have to bear in mind, it's not very likely the instance will still be there after you've died and respawned elsewhere after the insurance screen. We would need an incoming signal - perhaps a message in our inbox with the system source? - and a means, once in-system, of 'finding' the source of the signal in supercruise, akin to how mission-based USS's are spawned and 'found', where we then enter the USS like normal, dropping out of supercruise, and finding the life pod, perhaps with wreckage nearby and all. Whether to have ongoing combat be there as you appear...I'm not so sure. I'd want to have it happen after I've had a chance to safely recover the pod first - kind of like how NPC pirates currently can show up after you pick up an item or two in certain other, normal USS's.

As for emphasizing that the crew member be wholly intact, I'm just anticipating some kind of bug where NPC names/portraits change, or a bad-yet-all-too-likely idea like "recovered NPC crew lose a full rank"...for the record Fdev that is NOT a suggestion!
 
I'll just share more or less what I said about this in a thread on Reddit a month ago, that I thought was pretty good:
Yeah, the NPC crew permadeath is some serious horses**t. It's kind of a game mechanic. It doesn't make any sense lore-wise. And it doesn't even make any sense in the context of the rest of the game itself!

I mean, SUPPOSEDLY NPCs die when you blow up their ship-- otherwise assassination missions would be kinda pointless --but when you're on a mission and you have an NPC sent after you, they have to be blown up MULTIPLE TIMES.

Meanwhile, we're supposedly safe from everything, in some sort of miraculous instantaneous FSD-equipped ejection pod... All our PASSENGERS even have their own escape pods! (Because if they don't like the job you're doing as their Space Uber, they can just eject.) But the NPC crew member, whom we're investing time and money in, just eats it?! I call horses**t.

I'm all for risk, but it should be risk of something reasonable like a heavy cost and/or having to go retrieve their escape pod. Couple this with some kind of cooldown timer, and I think it'd make for a great game mechanic ripe for spawning emergent narrative:
  • Your ship gets blown up, your NPC crew are now in an escape pod at your last-known location...
  • Now, if you go back there, you find a signal source (And are alerted like when you find a mission objective SS, something like "Crew rescue beacon detected.") and can recover them.
  • If you don't go back within X amount of time, the signal source expires, and there's a cooldown timer that simulates the pod being picked up by NPCs, and eventually finding its way back to the nearest station.
  • The longer the distance, the longer the travel time, and the longer the recuperation time before the NPC can be used again.

Other possible options:

  • The ability for other people to rescue your crew within the initial 'rescue timer' period, returning them to you unharmed? (Inspired by Heat Signature, where your characters, if captured, are effectively dead...in YOUR game, but can wind up as rescue mission targets in the games of your Steam friends.)
  • Having to pay fines/bounties/ransom depending on whether or not you were wanted at the time, and depending on where you were. (Like in an Anarchy system, or a system Hostile to you, they might ransom your crew back to you.)

I've got no real need for the NPC crew to be visible on the bridge; sure it'd be cool, but my headcanon is they're below decks sitting in some kind of high-performance neural telepresence rig, and that's why you never see them. A buddy of mine, however, has chosen "But can I see my NPC crew yet?!" as his hill to die on... lol

While we're on the subject of NPC crew though, I have one other gripe; how they sit around mooching a fat percentage off me during their downtime. I build my NPCs up from Harmless, so I've got too much invested in them to just let them go, but I can go MONTHS without using a ship with a fighter bay...and yet they're still collecting a percentage of all my bounties and bonds, right? Realistically, if they're not working for me, they should be looking to ship out with somebody, at least. I mean, it's not like I've got THREE pilots under exclusive contract when I can only ever use ONE at any given time... That just doesn't make any sense.

------
Edit:
Please do keep in mind that the fighters are UNMANNED, and we're talking about NPC crew being recovered after YOUR ship gets popped. SLF are meant​ to be disposable.
 
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I'll just share more or less what I said about this in a thread on Reddit a month ago, that I thought was pretty good:
Yeah, the NPC crew permadeath is some serious horses**t. It's kind of a game mechanic. It doesn't make any sense lore-wise. And it doesn't even make any sense in the context of the rest of the game itself!

I mean, SUPPOSEDLY NPCs die when you blow up their ship-- otherwise assassination missions would be kinda pointless --but when you're on a mission and you have an NPC sent after you, they have to be blown up MULTIPLE TIMES.

Meanwhile, we're supposedly safe from everything, in some sort of miraculous instantaneous FSD-equipped ejection pod... All our PASSENGERS even have their own escape pods! (Because if they don't like the job you're doing as their Space Uber, they can just eject.) But the NPC crew member, whom we're investing time and money in, just eats it?! I call horses**t.

I'm all for risk, but it should be risk of something reasonable like a heavy cost and/or having to go retrieve their escape pod. Couple this with some kind of cooldown timer, and I think it'd make for a great game mechanic ripe for spawning emergent narrative:
  • Your ship gets blown up, your NPC crew are now in an escape pod at your last-known location...
  • Now, if you go back there, you find a signal source (And are alerted like when you find a mission objective SS, something like "Crew rescue beacon detected.") and can recover them.
  • If you don't go back within X amount of time, the signal source expires, and there's a cooldown timer that simulates the pod being picked up by NPCs, and eventually finding its way back to the nearest station.
  • The longer the distance, the longer the travel time, and the longer the recuperation time before the NPC can be used again.

Other possible options:

  • The ability for other people to rescue your crew within the initial 'rescue timer' period, returning them to you unharmed? (Inspired by Heat Signature, where your characters, if captured, are effectively dead...in YOUR game, but can wind up as rescue mission targets in the games of your Steam friends.)
  • Having to pay fines/bounties/ransom depending on whether or not you were wanted at the time, and depending on where you were. (Like in an Anarchy system, or a system Hostile to you, they might ransom your crew back to you.)

I've got no real need for the NPC crew to be visible on the bridge; sure it'd be cool, but my headcanon is they're below decks sitting in some kind of high-performance neural telepresence rig, and that's why you never see them. A buddy of mine, however, has chosen "But can I see my NPC crew yet?!" as his hill to die on... lol

While we're on the subject of NPC crew though, I have one other gripe; how they sit around mooching a fat percentage off me during their downtime. I build my NPCs up from Harmless, so I've got too much invested in them to just let them go, but I can go MONTHS without using a ship with a fighter bay...and yet they're still collecting a percentage of all my bounties and bonds, right? Realistically, if they're not working for me, they should be looking to ship out with somebody, at least. I mean, it's not like I've got THREE pilots under exclusive contract when I can only ever use ONE at any given time... That just doesn't make any sense.

------
Edit:
Please do keep in mind that the fighters are UNMANNED, and we're talking about NPC crew being recovered after YOUR ship gets popped. SLF are meant​ to be disposable.

Might I suggest, if it would be possible, simply linking your reddit post here? Gives any browsing readers (like those who work in the Frontier office, let's say) an easy way to look and see the thread & other responses for themselves. ;)

I'd actually forgotten about Passengers entirely and the fact that they have lifepods; that *really* removes any credibility for NPC crew to die....
 
Might I suggest, if it would be possible, simply linking your reddit post here? Gives any browsing readers (like those who work in the Frontier office, let's say) an easy way to look and see the thread & other responses for themselves. ;)
Fixed.

I'd actually forgotten about Passengers entirely and the fact that they have lifepods; that *really* removes any credibility for NPC crew to die....
I know, right?!?!
 
FD have already stated that they're looking into addressing the loss of NPC crew. This is what Sandro said on another thread:

Hello Commanders!

I'm fairly sure that I've mentioned this topic on more than one occasion. Oh well, once more, with feeling!

We have some ideas for preventing fighter crew death whilst retaining some form of jeopardy, but we haven't got round to implementing them.

Clearly we don't want a situation where crew can always be saved, this would mean that everyone would only ever hire one or two fighter crew. However, we accept that the current situation is too harsh in terms of investment versus risk. Look for more information in a future update.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...o-killing-our-SLF-NPC-s?p=6453416#post6453416
 
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But yeah, I'd love to see my pilot sat in the cockpit at the fighter console. And having your fighter pilot taking the same cut while not doing anything just seems a bit daft. In my view, they should be on a standard retainer, and then take a cut of the profits whenever they're on active duty.
 
FD have already stated that they're looking into addressing the loss of NPC crew. This is what Sandro said on another thread:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...o-killing-our-SLF-NPC-s?p=6453416#post6453416

I am aware, and I have multiple responses to Sandro in that thread (as he has another post there as well). But I do appreciate you linking it here for more visibility. :cool:

_

Make NPC crew and wing members something you can communicate with.

This would be swell; I like the "Command wheel" found in many games these days to interact with followers/allies in an easy manner that doesn't take up more than a single hotkey space while still offering many options. (hint hint Fdev)
 
FD have already stated that they're looking into addressing the loss of NPC crew. This is what Sandro said on another thread:



https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...o-killing-our-SLF-NPC-s?p=6453416#post6453416

Sandro??I struggle to believe how naive some of you guys are. Sandro has been moved to other projects, and he likely has no input whatsoever on the game, nor do his past ideas have any meaning.

The OP makes valid points. But many dozens of other good points have been made about this game in the past. Suggestions that went unheard.

If you are in this forum to share screenshots and make "haz your stuff" jokes, you are in the right place.

If you are here with the hope that your ideas will contribute to the game, or your complaints will be addressed, you are only fooling yourself.
 
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