NPC can still see me while cold running

bonsek

bonsek
I stopped by the nav beacon to admire the sun and fix me a tea. I didn't wanted to be bothered by pirates (playing in solo).

So, I switched off the engine, shield and everything else besides life support.
Temp dropped at 0, glass frosted I was enjoying the view. But after 5 minutes an NPC pirate started shooting at me.

Does that mean I still appear on the radar and you can't go completely cold even if you are motionless with everything switched off?
 

M3SS3NG3R

M
It may very well be the case that NPC can somehow cheat and see ships on their radar even when the target is "cold". However, cold running is not the same as turning invisible. You might not show up on radar but you will still show up very well on MkI Eyeballs. It's possible that the pirate simply found you visually.
 

M3SS3NG3R

M
You can test NPC behavior towards silent running with the Predator & Prey scenario. They usually don't notice you when you are cold but it does not guarantee stealth. When they do find you you can still lose them. I have a video of me getting attacked by the cobra just as I was about to kill the third Federal scout and had to run into the asteroid field to regain stealth.
 

Rhaedas

Rhaedas
Simplest thing would be for them to have a cone area that is their field of view, and if you stray in there, if you aren't moving then they'd roll for a chance to see you, if you are then they do. But I'm hoping that next update with further enhance the mechanics of stealth and detection, so not worrying about it for now.
 

adflet

A
Did you actually enable silent running or just switch systems off? People seem to say it doesn't make a difference but I'm convinced it does.
 

Zenicetus

Zenicetus
AFAIK, throwing the Silent Running switch doesn't do anything you can't do better by just selectively switching off systems and making sure your hardpoints are down.

If the game spawned an NPC pirate within visual range, being all stealthy and cold doesn't help. At some point, they can just eyeball you, but I don't know what that visual range is.
 

adflet

A
Zenicetus said:
AFAIK, throwing the Silent Running switch doesn't do anything you can't do better by just selectively switching off systems and making sure your hardpoints are down.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. The ship's sound is definitely quieter with silent running on. Surely this isn't just a cool immersion thing but it actually makes a difference to stealth? With systems off your vents are still open so you're still radiating heat, if you're still radiating heat it doesn't matter if your cockpit is iced up because the heat is being purged from the ship and can be more easily detected.

With systems off your heat signature graph is flatter, with silent running on it's dead flat. Again this could just be a design/immersion thing but surely it means something. I haven't tested, but my belief is you're most stealthy with a low temp and silent running on, and you can still be stealthy with systems off and a low temp but will be visible on scanners further away than you would if silent running was enabled.
 

Zenicetus

Zenicetus
adflet said:
I'm not so sure. The ship's sound is definitely quieter with silent running on. Surely this isn't just a cool immersion thing but it actually makes a difference to stealth?
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See the videos Cdr. Setesh Jaeger linked above. All the main information is in the first one. This shows how it works now, at least how players see each other. I would certainly hope that NPC's work the same way, but who knows... it's a Beta.

According to that video, hitting Silent Running isn't as effective as manually powering down. It's something to use in a panic while escaping, to prevent missile lock or gimbal weapon lock (but apparently does nothing if a missile is already locked on to you).

This may be a work in progress by the devs, because it's not doing what many people expect from the term "Silent Running."
 

Metamartian

M
what you might not want to do next time is park near a nav beacon as it would be the most travelled point for npc's surely (assuming the ai uses these for entry points?)
 

forger

forger
bonsek said:
I stopped by the nav beacon to admire the sun and fix me a tea. I didn't wanted to be bothered by pirates (playing in solo).

So, I switched off the engine, shield and everything else besides life support.
Temp dropped at 0, glass frosted I was enjoying the view. But after 5 minutes an NPC pirate started shooting at me.

Does that mean I still appear on the radar and you can't go completely cold even if you are motionless with everything switched off?
Click to expand...

silent run do not hide you completely, just makes you harder to detect from distance, visually you still are there and if enemy has lasers or you are not moving fast then hitting such target is easy, not sure why npc saw you though as they shouldn't visually see anything :)
 

Tacheel

Tacheel
Your ship is cold, but still producing heat, this heat is dissipating into space as radiation which is how you lose it to stay cold. It is detectable.

Closing the vents (silent running) will still make you less detectable.
 

bonsek

bonsek
Cdr. Setesh Jaeger said:
A couple of fellow Commanders have already done the testing in demystifying cool running (at least as far as PC v PC is concerned).

Testing Stealth & Heat Mechanics: Part 1

Testing Stealth & Heat Mechanics: Part 2
Click to expand...

Great videos regarding radar visibility in PvP! Thanks Jaeger!

It will be good to know how ED programmed the NPCs, if they only rely on radar to see you or if they have a field of view as well. Going to do some more testing at Anarchy systems this week. Or if some devs see this maybe they can give us some insight.
 

Zenicetus

Zenicetus
Zireael said:
Gonna watch those two as soon as I'm back to unlimited wireless connection. :)
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Actually, I'm not sure the info in those videos is still current. I was fooling around with cold running last night, and it wasn't working the way they described it in the video.

In a Sidewinder, I kept my hardpoints down, and turned off only Shields and Engine, nothing else. The canopy would always frost over, but the heat indicator showed either 1% or 0% each time I tried it, so it wasn't consistent.

Here's the thing though... I could then turn the Engine back on (no Shields) and maneuver with thrusters or even the main engine, without budging the 1% or 0% level on the heat indicator, and the canopy stayed frosted. That's either a bug, or FD has been messing with the way cold running works. It doesn't make sense that you could have engines on and maneuver freely while being that cold.

Edit to add: Oh, and I was also spotted by an NPC pirate after going into that cold mode while checking out a USS. He wasn't there when I first dropped in. I went cold, canopy frosted, then his yellow dot appeared and I got the "drop cargo" text. I bugged out easily, but it shows that NPC's can still spot you if they're within whatever "visual range" is in this game.
 
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