NPC ships and CMDR ships - Why do we need to know the difference?

[TMC]

During the first few weeks of playing ED, when playing Open I did not know how to tell if another ship was an NPC or a Human. In every encounter, I was clueless who was human or not. In my clueless newbie mind, I imagined about 30% were Human (no matter where I went) and the rest NPC, but again I did not know which ones so I would treat them all as Human just in case. After a while, I could start to suspect which were NPC, due to similar behaviors noted, but still not sure. After I asked on the forums how to tell the difference for sure, I was told that all CMDRs are human. While I was excited to learn this, what followed was disappointment, as I noticed that it was more like 1% or less were human, depending on location. Obviously, playing with NPCs, while safer, is not exactly as exciting or social as playing with live humans.

The point of my post is that, why do we NEED to know who is human or NPC? I sort of wish I could go back to the time that I could not tell the difference for sure. The game seemed better, knowing that any ship could possibly be human controlled.

Who thinks we should make even the NPCs have a CMDR designation? For players who do like being attacked by other human players, this would afford some camouflage, as you would not stick out like a sore thumb for other humans just looking to grief other humans.

 

[Baleur]

Well to be fair you had to have expected this.. The galaxy is 200 billion stars large. There arent even 20 million players of Elite Dangerous. So you can do the math of how sparsely populated the ingame galaxy really is with real human players.

In this way, i think having a clear distinction in the form of CMDR tags and the fact that their icon on the radar is hollow, provides a much needed "OMG look!" value to spotting a human player after you have been swarming the galaxy for days without seeing another real person.
It also opens the possibility for communication and cooperation! If it is hidden, whats the point of it being multiplayer? Will you spam "Hello?" in chat everytime you spot an NPC ship?

If it is all just hidden, you will never find the surprise and satisfaction of seeing another human. Running into another player out in the wild galaxy is a truly lucky accident, and should be displayed. Otherwise what is the point of playing in Open Play, if you cant have that random rare human encounter?

Now, if you are talking about only staying in the 10 core newbie area systems, where most players start. Thats a different matter. But i dont think its fair to balance or tweak the entire game to only cater to less than 0.001% of the entire galaxy.

 

[cherbert]

We shouldn't need to know. In fact this would solve a lot of problems in Conflict Zones where real players ignore all the NPC's and attack lone players just because its fun to do so.

I understand during development the idea of a transponder was discussed which the player could turn on or off at his discretion. For me this would encourage me to play more in Open Play, especially when taking part in Community Goal based Conflict Zones.

Other players should be required to do a detailed scan before revealing my true identity.

 

[Rikk]

Because it is nice to chat to Commanders.

Not so much to npc

How would I know if I wanted to chat to the commander if I didn't know they are a commander?

 

[Troa Barton]

Because there are people that just want to ruin other peoples fun, who communicate with grunts and clubs, and have not the intelligence to be a pirate.

 

[Ancipital]

Can you imagine the disasters when trolls convince cluebies that they're NPCs giving them missions and so forth?

 

[Telnets]

Because when I want to form a wing, I dont want to sit there hailing NPCs for 2 hours while commanders come and go which might be interested in joining.

Because when i leave the station mailslot, i respect commanders and yeild right of way to them, but boost out of TRY to blow up NPCs on my way out...

Because when someone stops me, i already know if they are NPC or not based on what thier first line is, so hiding it doesnt matter...

Because when i get pulled into an interdiction, i look at my radar and if its an NPC i submit and kill him.. if its a CMDr i actualy try not to be interdicted, or treat the initial "talks" a lot more carefully

When im a pirate, its useless to hail a wanted ship if its not a CMDR because as far as i have seen, NPCs dont give up cargo when you ask them nicely

just some of the few reasons for me, why i like knowing

 

[Globusdiablo]

During the first few weeks of playing ED, when playing Open I did not know how to tell if another ship was an NPC or a Human. In every encounter, I was clueless who was human or not. In my clueless newbie mind, I imagined about 30% were Human (no matter where I went) and the rest NPC, but again I did not know which ones so I would treat them all as Human just in case. After a while, I could start to suspect which were NPC, due to similar behaviors noted, but still not sure. After I asked on the forums how to tell the difference for sure, I was told that all CMDRs are human. While I was excited to learn this, what followed was disappointment, as I noticed that it was more like 1% or less were human, depending on location. Obviously, playing with NPCs, while safer, is not exactly as exciting or social as playing with live humans.

The point of my post is that, why do we NEED to know who is human or NPC? I sort of wish I could go back to the time that I could not tell the difference for sure. The game seemed better, knowing that any ship could possibly be human controlled.

Who thinks we should make even the NPCs have a CMDR designation? For players who do like being attacked by other human players, this would afford some camouflage, as you would not stick out like a sore thumb for other humans just looking to grief other humans.

It's a good idea. It's been said before, but can easily be said again. And it would level the playing field for those playing in Open.

Because it is nice to chat to Commanders.

Not so much to npc

How would I know if I wanted to chat to the commander if I didn't know they are a commander?

Throw them a text. If they don't reply, they're either npc's or not interested in talking.

 

[cherbert]

Because when I want to form a wing, I dont want to sit there hailing NPCs for 2 hours while commanders come and go which might be interested in joining.

Because when i leave the station mailslot, i respect commanders and yeild right of way to them, but boost out of TRY to blow up NPCs on my way out...

Because when someone stops me, i already know if they are NPC or not based on what thier first line is, so hiding it doesnt matter...

Because when i get pulled into an interdiction, i look at my radar and if its an NPC i submit and kill him.. if its a CMDr i actualy try not to be interdicted, or treat the initial "talks" a lot more carefully

When im a pirate, its useless to hail a wanted ship if its not a CMDR because as far as i have seen, NPCs dont give up cargo when you ask them nicely

just some of the few reasons for me, why i like knowing

Like I said.. an optional transponder would sort most of your issues out. If someone wants to be in a wing or chat they are likely to have switched their transponder on. If they want to be in a balanced combat zone then they may choose to switch it off and go incognito.

But the fact of the matter is most people who want this feature are the types of people currently playing in Solo. So surely its win win for everyone?

 

[bamber]

I'm in a station thats really busy with NPC's but super quiet with other CMDRS, I don't want to search through 20 ships every time I jump to see if some one is real so I can say hi

 

[TheMarshall]

Thats a really interesting idea you propose. Personally I like it how it is but if there was an option not to identify player or NPC that would be useful for you. I appreciate your perspective.

 

[CMDR NightsLong]

again another thread showing why it's pointless to play in solo mode

 

[Tarman]

Well to be fair you had to have expected this.. The galaxy is 200 billion stars large. There arent even 20 million players of Elite Dangerous. So you can do the math of how sparsely populated the ingame galaxy really is with real human players.

In this way, i think having a clear distinction in the form of CMDR tags and the fact that their icon on the radar is hollow, provides a much needed "OMG look!" value to spotting a human player after you have been swarming the galaxy for days without seeing another real person.
It also opens the possibility for communication and cooperation! If it is hidden, whats the point of it being multiplayer? Will you spam "Hello?" in chat everytime you spot an NPC ship?

If it is all just hidden, you will never find the surprise and satisfaction of seeing another human. Running into another player out in the wild galaxy is a truly lucky accident, and should be displayed. Otherwise what is the point of playing in Open Play, if you cant have that random rare human encounter?

Now, if you are talking about only staying in the 10 core newbie area systems, where most players start. Thats a different matter. But i dont think its fair to balance or tweak the entire game to only cater to less than 0.001% of the entire galaxy.

Having a permanent target on a live player, just so maybe if two CMDRs meet in deep space they don't have to try and hail the other ship, is not that strong a reasoning. That example is more like the 0.001% occurrence.

The rest of the galaxy has to put up with being a target of opportunity or an obvious threat, based purely on a sensor sig marking you out as alive outside of the game. It means you can never just blend into the traffic, for either pursuit or escape purposes. You're never just one of the ships, you're Easily Spotted Human Player Ship. It makes the game of hunting and running less interesting because both parties have giant flags on their heads. No need to scan freighters coming insys for which has the best cargo, it's obviously the hollow sig. No need to fear this particular system, all the sigs are filled so there's no decent pirates here.

Comms, situation and behaviour should be the determinant if at all, not a gamey gimme-blip on scope.

 

[cherbert]

again another thread showing why it's pointless to play in solo mode

Don't quite get the point you are making? How does this discussion make playing in Solo pointless?

 

[TMC]

I like the idea of a transponder. That way everyone can make the choice of being "outed" or not. I personally would prefer to play in Open with the transponder off. That would avoid getting treated differently based on being alive or not. I don't want to be treated different than an NPC. The purpose of the NPCs is to fill in the gap of not having enough humans playing to fill the galaxy. Everyone wants the NPCs to be as close to Human as possible, right? Then why identify them as NPC? Let it be that you cannot tell the difference. If you can, then that just means there's more work to be done to make them more lifelike. But we don't need to point them out as fake, do we? If you are a real social type that needs to chat with real people while you play, well you could just turn on your transponder to identify yourself to likeminded players. If there are others that want to chat with you, then they would also turn on their transponder. I remember when I could not tell the difference, and I also thought other people could not tell the difference either. At a NAV site, somebody asked me a question in the message thing, and I remember that I just did not answer back. The real reason was that I was afraid of getting shot while typing, but I didn't feel like chatting anyway. I thought maybe he would just think I was an NPC and not take it personally. He finally said, "what, you don't speak?"..lol Anyways, to those that think I should just play Solo mode, it's not the same. In Solo mode, I KNOW there are no human players, so every encounter is NPC. In Open, any ship could be Human. Half the fun could be finding out! I remember having some "chicken" contests with some players, which now I think about it were probably just NPC, but I didn't know and they could have been Human as far as I knew. And for those that like to chat, well so what if an NPC answers? If the AI is good, well have a great talk.

 

[TMC]

Originally Posted by CMDR NightsLong again another thread showing why it's pointless to play in solo mode

Don't quite get the point you are making? How does this discussion make playing in Solo pointless?

I think what NIGHTSLONG was trying to say is that if we implemented transponders, that would be yet another reason why we don't need to have a Solo mode. At least I think that's what he/she means. If not, I'm lost on that statement as well

 

[Ydiss]

The transponder was an idea in the dda. When it didn't make launch, I presumed they decided to just see how things would go.

I think the transponder makes the most sense. It has no down sides.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by CMDR NightsLong [url]https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/buttons/viewpost-right.png[/URL] again another thread showing why it's pointless to play in solo mode




I think what NIGHTSLONG was trying to say is that if we implemented transponders, that would be yet another reason why we don't need to have a Solo mode. At least I think that's what he/she means. If not, I'm lost on that statement as well

I get what he means. But you're still at risk of facing players. Plus, solo mode has other benefits. The prime one being lower bandwidth requirements. I've been using it recently because I've been on mobile pay as you go Internet and I can't use too much bandwidth.

That's all changing this weekend. I'm moving. And I'll be getting 150mbit soon.

 

[Morbad]

We shouldn't need to know.

We shouldn't be able to tell so easily, but need is relative.

In fact this would solve a lot of problems in Conflict Zones where real players ignore all the NPC's and attack lone players just because its fun to do so.

This is simply sound strategy. A CMDR in a Viper is worth ten AI Anaconda in combat effectiveness.

You are a fool if you don't prioritize hostile CMDRs over all other threats.

Other players should be required to do a detailed scan before revealing my true identity.

I agree.

 

[DarkWalker]

Why it wouldn't work for me: because I'm trigger happy with NPCs, but I never fire at players outside some very specific situations. Making me unable to distinguish players and NPCs everywhere would make solo the only viable mode for me, as it would be the only one where I could be sure I wasn't firing at players thinking they were NPCs.

The one place where it could work for me is in conflict zones. A player going there in open is basically opting into PvP, which in turn removes my misgivings about firing at players. But still it would only work for me there.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I'm in a station thats really busy with NPC's but super quiet with other CMDRS, I don't want to search through 20 ships every time I jump to see if some one is real so I can say hi

Start with a LOCAL text, if anyone responds take it from there.