NPCs can use Engineers modified weapons for Elite: Dangerous 1.6
- Thread starter Dym
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This was one of the questions I had asked with no answer, thanks!
I'll be very interested to see what happens at the end of Season 2 and start of Season 3. Will Season 3 include Season 2 for Season 1->3 upgrades? Or will Base game automatically get Season 2 at the start of Season 3? I have a feeling this whole separate season-pass thing could get very sticky soon enough.
FTR: I have Horizons due to having Premium Beta status.
I too think that having NPCS always having access to engineer mods is going to be unfair to Cmdrs without Horizons. Certainly if someone without Horizons is in Solo they should never see NPCs using engineer mods that they can't counter with their own engineer mods. Note I do think the check should be versus account status not just the version of the client being run so as to not allow Horizons-owning Cmdrs to in effect downgrade the AI.
Obviously this whole situation is more complicated once you start considering Private Groups and Open Play. Unless FDev are going to separate Cmdrs in matchmaking based on what seasons they have I don't see how it can work sanely. Either someone with Horizons will arrive in a session/island controlled by someone without Horizons and wonder why the AI is all so easy, or the converse will occur and the poor non-Horizons Cmdr is going to get pwned by AI they can't hope to counter (easily).
If FDev's position on this is simply "to have the full, current gameplay experience you need to have all currently released seasons" then they need to put warnings all over the base game on all stores.
I too think that having NPCS always having access to engineer mods is going to be unfair to Cmdrs without Horizons. Certainly if someone without Horizons is in Solo they should never see NPCs using engineer mods that they can't counter with their own engineer mods. Note I do think the check should be versus account status not just the version of the client being run so as to not allow Horizons-owning Cmdrs to in effect downgrade the AI.
Obviously this whole situation is more complicated once you start considering Private Groups and Open Play. Unless FDev are going to separate Cmdrs in matchmaking based on what seasons they have I don't see how it can work sanely. Either someone with Horizons will arrive in a session/island controlled by someone without Horizons and wonder why the AI is all so easy, or the converse will occur and the poor non-Horizons Cmdr is going to get pwned by AI they can't hope to counter (easily).
If FDev's position on this is simply "to have the full, current gameplay experience you need to have all currently released seasons" then they need to put warnings all over the base game on all stores.
on the otherhand.. why should frontier focus on people that dont join the wagon?
sorry if i sound harsh, not sure how to word myself..
its normal that they focus on the people that buy the expansions, and its easyer to implement all the same NPC's.. otherwise how would it work, if your mate has horizons and you dont.. how does the enemy spawning works then?
I think the ideal, and workable, solution is that if a non-EDH player is in Solo then none of the AI will use engineer mods, else there's the normal chance of it happening. Combine that with a warning on the store pages.
That way people (if they bother to read) will know the situation, and in a limited set of circumstances can avoid the issue.
And, yes, I suspect there'll be more and more such issues as more of Horizons is released, never mind future seasons. FDev need to have a good think and come out with a clear statement on this ASAP.
That way people (if they bother to read) will know the situation, and in a limited set of circumstances can avoid the issue.
And, yes, I suspect there'll be more and more such issues as more of Horizons is released, never mind future seasons. FDev need to have a good think and come out with a clear statement on this ASAP.
I hear what you're saying, and you're not wrong. However,
I think we might start seeing P2W (play to win) criticisms, and they won't be wrong. If Engineers give distinct advantages to those who pay real money to access them (Season 2) in an on-line MMO (as advertised by FDev), it's not going to go unnoticed. Planetary Landings are one thing, Engineers on the other hand... This could get sticky is all I'm saying.
Looking at https://www.frontierstore.net/games/elite-dangerous-cat/elite-dangerous.html right now it doesn't even mention Horizons (only the Deluxe edition which includes the Horizons season pass) as "You may also be interested in", and no mention of it in the "Related Products" section either.
Nothing in the main text about "There are expansions to the base game that may affect your gameplay even though you only own the base game", or similar.
Nothing in the main text about "There are expansions to the base game that may affect your gameplay even though you only own the base game", or similar.
all the NPC's are the same, doesnt matter if you play 1.6 or 2.1.
we share the same galaxy, even if your in solo.. it becomes way harder for frontier to implement what you suggest.
It would be interesting to see if "Season Pass" turned out to really mean "Season Beta Pass" or "Season Early Access Pass". You get the Season as it's developed if purchased, and the Season gets integrated into the Main Game (ie. Base Game) at the end of the Season.
Valid point, although in this case I think it's OK so long as there are no engineer mods which render an NPC immune to basic equipment. I don't have a problem with fighting a wider variety of enemies with unusual abilities. Sounds like an improvement to me, even if I can't attain those abilities myself.
What I find more obnoxious is that going forward, when we blow up an enemy ship, or complete a mission, or mine an asteroid; we'll be acquiring piles and piles of completely useless materials which we can't do *anything* with. THAT sucks.
What I find more obnoxious is that going forward, when we blow up an enemy ship, or complete a mission, or mine an asteroid; we'll be acquiring piles and piles of completely useless materials which we can't do *anything* with. THAT sucks.
I see no issue with this. My concern with AI using engineer mods is it affects a very basic aspect of the game, PvE combat against those AI.
You wouldn't want FDev to change it so non-EDH players see no such items drop, as then you couldn't stockpile them ahead of finally buying the expansion.
Well, its FD that will end up paying the most if these NPC's are decked out like " Bosses" in other games as bosses in other games are end zone entities that dont roam the entire galaxy.
The few semi pro players that constantly quack about not having enough challenge yet they don't seem to be populated, organized and focused enough to create their own PVP dedicated private group will also pay if / when the paying majority says...see ya!
The few semi pro players that constantly quack about not having enough challenge yet they don't seem to be populated, organized and focused enough to create their own PVP dedicated private group will also pay if / when the paying majority says...see ya!
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That is indeed an interesting question. If FD continue with the way Horizons works, i.e. if you buy Horizons you will have access to everything before Horizons as well, then the model will be like so:
Whichever stage/season you buy into ED you get the previous seasons as well. So if somewhere down the line a customer likes the look of ED and decides to buy it at Season 5: The Search for RNGesus (comedy title
) then they get access to the vanilla game including all of the content from seasons 1 to 5.That's actually kind of neat (hassle free) but then the price would have to start reflecting that, which means ED season 5 could cost something like £90/£120. That's a steep price for someone looking to buy into a video game for the first time.
The alternative is to require customers to have to buy each Season individually which will end up costing the customer way more than £120 if the price of a season remain at £20/£30.
That is indeed an interesting question. If FD continue with the way Horizons works, i.e. if you buy Horizons you will have access to everything before Horizons as well, then the model will be like so:
Whichever stage/season you buy into ED you get the previous seasons as well. So if somewhere down the line a customer likes the look of ED and decides to buy it at Season 5: The Search for RNGesus (comedy title
That's actually kind of neat (hassle free) but then the price would have to start reflecting that, which means ED season 5 could cost something like £90/£120. That's a steep price for someone looking to buy into a video game for the first time.
The alternative is to require customers to have to buy each Season individually which will end up costing the customer way more than £120 if the price of a season remain at £20/£30.
The alternative is to keep selling the base game cheaper and cheaper every year (same would apply to previous expansions) while still having the complete package for a normal AAA price. Eventually some Seasons from now the base game and season 2 will probably be rolled into one, thus becoming the new base game. A year later Season 3 might be rolled into the base game and so on so they don't have to keep an endless amount of different client builds available and supported.
This way they can have a cheap way for people to get into the ED universe by having a base package with upgrade paths all the way to the latest version.
No. They are being losers. They have an option to improve their performance that they choose not to use. Only thing punishing them is their head.
First off I don't understand why everybody believes that so many NPC will have modified weapons.
According to FD they are rare. I would expect to meet one every week or so (depended on week playtime) and I expect to see them in the base game.
Also "pay to win"? Seriously? What do you want to win? This is a Space Simulation Game. Sure there will be Players with highly modified weapons that can evaporate me in seconds, but that's ok.
I wouldn't stand around watching the beautiful blue lasers reaching my hull, I would instead haul ass... And if I don't like it, I would play in SOLO.
Totally agree with this. And keep in mind, I don't even own Horizons.
And also totaly understandable. If I was FD, I would of course do the same, that is trying to find support for my 10 year development plan.
Really? You could just not pick them up. (I guess you have to pick them up, right?)
According to FD they are rare. I would expect to meet one every week or so (depended on week playtime) and I expect to see them in the base game.
Also "pay to win"? Seriously? What do you want to win? This is a Space Simulation Game. Sure there will be Players with highly modified weapons that can evaporate me in seconds, but that's ok.
I wouldn't stand around watching the beautiful blue lasers reaching my hull, I would instead haul ass... And if I don't like it, I would play in SOLO.
Totally agree with this. And keep in mind, I don't even own Horizons.
And also totaly understandable. If I was FD, I would of course do the same, that is trying to find support for my 10 year development plan.
Really? You could just not pick them up. (I guess you have to pick them up, right?)
You KNOW I have to pick them up. C'mon - if I'm an Elite player I've clearly got a compulsive streak to me. From a more practical standpoint, they just get in the way, because of course there will also be legitimate cargo that I *do* want to pick up and it'll be all mixed up with the useless stuff, making it harder to identify and collect.
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Think of this scenario. I am an alpha backer so get all the expansions for free (well I paid a lot but won't need to buy anything more). I go against a ship it has engineer upgrades but I don't as I never went for them. never finished it, or was about to go hand the items in for it, and got attacked. So what does that mean? I am in a stock ship against an NPC with an engineer upgraded ship and I don't have any upgrades does that make it fair because I didn't finish the quest (obtain items), or unfair because it is upgraded and I'm not yet? So same scenario I don't own horizons was not an alpha backer and same thing, except I was not about to turn in items for an upgrade and an engineer equipped ship attacks me? What are the results? Humm well it is exactly the same. Non upgraded ship against an upgraded one. Does it matter if I own Horizons are not? Not at all, they have upgrades I don't for any number of reasons and end result comes down to am I a better pilot then the ship attacking me, if I am, I will win. if not I lose or run for it. Owning Horizons are any expansion in the future changes nothing. I ever decided I didn't want to grind for the upgrades or not. If I decide not to and own the expansion my ship is the same as a non owner of Horizons.
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I do not get the whining of some. Oh woes is me, I don't own the expansion the NPC has the upgraded parts it is not fair, while the owner of horizons says, I just got the expansion the NPC has all the upgrades and I don't it is not fair it needs to wait until I decide to upgrade and if I don't it can't ever use them either. In other words life in games or in reality is never fair get use to it and deal with it or forever complain it is the other person's problem then learning to cope, overcome and win in your life.
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I have learned that in real life, makes gaming easier, NPC's cheat. always will., always have, and always have the upper hand, till you learn to over come them and win or run to fight another day. A lesson we all need to learn. You can't win every fight, but can adapt, over come the problem and still succeed in other area's and learn from them to fight and win another day.
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Calebe
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I do not get the whining of some. Oh woes is me, I don't own the expansion the NPC has the upgraded parts it is not fair, while the owner of horizons says, I just got the expansion the NPC has all the upgrades and I don't it is not fair it needs to wait until I decide to upgrade and if I don't it can't ever use them either. In other words life in games or in reality is never fair get use to it and deal with it or forever complain it is the other person's problem then learning to cope, overcome and win in your life.
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I have learned that in real life, makes gaming easier, NPC's cheat. always will., always have, and always have the upper hand, till you learn to over come them and win or run to fight another day. A lesson we all need to learn. You can't win every fight, but can adapt, over come the problem and still succeed in other area's and learn from them to fight and win another day.
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Calebe
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