PvP Obtaining the Unobtainable...

[Wolf Starslayer]

So with the approaching rngineers change I would like to gather some opinions from the experienced pvp players. What modules (mainly weapons ) do you think will be unobtainable after the nerf? What should I look to rngineer before the changes come in?

Now in another thread somebody ( I think Stitch but may be wrong ) already mentioned rails with a heat-reduction secondary to allow you to fire nearly twice as fast as a standard rail, what others can you guys suggest? What mods do you think will be most beneficial to do now so as not to be locked in the 'underpowered' camp forever once the change goes live?

 

[Stigbob]

It might be easier and make sense to gather mats (if you need to) wait for beta testing, have a bash at it and see what the new systems is like. Then if you think the new highly engineered ones don't match up switch back to the main game and engineer them up the old way you'd have at least a week.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

It might be easier and make sense to gather mats (if you need to) wait for beta testing, have a bash at it and see what the new systems is like. Then if you think the new highly engineered ones don't match up switch back to the main game and engineer them up the old way you'd have at least a week.

Don't take this wrong but not really interested in turning this into a debate thread; plenty of those already open.

What I'm after here is for experienced pvp to chime in and give examples of some of their best god-rolled kitt ( chance to brag ) and to be able to see the numbers. I'd like to see which weapons benefit from god-roll secondary's the most; is it for example railguns or plasma?

 

[son of khzvoltz]

I mean, I got lucky with the beam lasers and got the healing and regen beams on my DBX, though, I'm probably gonna switch them out to a cobra to heal beam my escort

 

[PeLucheuh]

We don't know yet. We will figure out what is the best during the beta in order to point out what is better to god roll now.

As an exemple, if you can't have this kind of roll in the beta, then roll as much as you can in live in order to keep the advantage forever. (That's why grandfathering is a mistake)

edit : Don't forget to pray RNGsus and make sacrifices for him at engineer settlement.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

We don't know yet. We will figure out what is the best during the beta in order to point out what is better to god roll now.

As an exemple, if you can't have this kind of roll in the beta, then roll as much as you can in live in order to keep the advantage forever. (That's why grandfathering is a mistake)

edit : Don't forget to pray RNGsus and make sacrifices for him at engineer settlement.

Thanks for the reply and the module specs, your right in that we will need to see the details to judge fully but I suspect that we can make some educated guesses based on the secondary effects as to what will stay better as a grandfathered mod.

For example I'm thinking of doing some rail and plasma mods as I think they get some of the most benefit out of secondary's ( thermal reduction ), what other mods can folk think of where the secondary 'makes' the mod?

 

[Elpapo]

We don't know yet. We will figure out what is the best during the beta in order to point out what is better to god roll now.

As an exemple, if you can't have this kind of roll in the beta, then roll as much as you can in live in order to keep the advantage forever. (That's why grandfathering is a mistake)

edit : Don't forget to pray RNGsus and make sacrifices for him at engineer settlement.

I doubt if these rolls will be obtainable anymore, with having either superpen or casca, if we talk about rails. Just look at latest vids that shows "bit" of new system.

I strongly suggest that anyone should try obtain these rails soon as possible, as secondary rolls (low heat or so) will gonna be replaced with bunch of new "experimental" effects for all weps, so having low heat raigun with superpen and casca wont be possible anymore as after change, if SOMEONE(Read: all PVP'ers) would like having lower heat on thier rails, then there will be new experimental effect for it instead.

For weps, apart of railguns wich are most obvious, there also these focused/long range PA, with lower heat as well, since its lower heat is what makes them so viable now. After change, there wont be possible to create meta weapons with same stats as before.
There is list for those who would like know what is best to roll right now, before it will be not anymore possible:

1: Long range rails with superpen or casca or even slug, all with low heat (12-14 heat instead of 20). Any of them with 5km + is plently good enough.
2: Long range or focused PA with low heat, same like with rails. TLB and dispersal. If there is more than one PA in loadout, matching thier speed should be done.
3: Efficent weapons with 20%+ dmg boost. Especially PA's with TLB and dispersal. There is no weapon wich would not benefit from it.
4: Overcharged weapons, with lower heat. Again, with good experimentals on them. MC's with corrosiv or emmisiv, autoloader. PA with TLB and dispersial etc.
5: Emmisive/scramble long range lasers with low heat.

Mainly is about having lower heat from secondary, and with must-have experimetnal along on certain weaps. Increased dmg on efficents, to having that sweet 20% increase, again with experimetals along.

Apart of weapons, biwave thermal resistant shields might be thing to do as well, since they can get nice 20% regen bonuses, along with good resists. Also Pplant mods of G1 with no downsides. Especially those godrolled g1 ones. Either LE or OC or armoured. Unless if internals would had possible to get "experimentals" on them as well after change, wich is not certain till now.

Do it before its too late.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Thanks Elpapo for the feedback and good call with the shields, I will certainly try to get a few magic secondary's before the time runs out.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Grade 1 efficient power plant with a bonus to power.

One of my favourite mods to make.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

(That's why grandfathering is a mistake)

Its a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation. But if you were the dev, would you really want to tell thousands of players who didn't even ask for a change to engineering that all their engineering work is going to be wiped? Can you imagine how many players would rage quit overnight? You'd be crucified.

The only way for FD to avoid this situation is (except to have not made the new system) to make sure that overall the newer systems are more powerful than the old. So while the efficient rails are good, the new mods to rails are even better.

But then that leads to even more power creep. And, because rails are rare in this disparity, everything else needs a massive buff as well to stand up to rails.

Nah, i really wish FD have kept the old system and spent all those work hours on something for explorers instead.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Its a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation. But if you were the dev, would you really want to tell thousands of players who didn't even ask for a change to engineering that all their engineering work is going to be wiped? Can you imagine how many players would rage quit overnight? You'd be crucified.

The only way for FD to avoid this situation is (except to have not made the new system) to make sure that overall the newer systems are more powerful than the old. So while the efficient rails are good, the new mods to rails are even better.

But then that leads to even more power creep. And, because rails are rare in this disparity, everything else needs a massive buff as well to stand up to rails.

Nah, i really wish FD have kept the old system and spent all those work hours on something for explorers instead.

The community whined so hard about the 5-1 modules, which are perfectly legitimate blueprinted modules (same rolling parameters as everyone else)
How do you reckon they'd feel about being killed with godrolled and unobtainable grandfathered weapons?

Sandro also said if you have a god roll you might want to keep it because it will be better (god roll LR railgun in my previous example).

 

[Roybe]

The community whined so hard about the 5-1 modules, which are perfectly legitimate blueprinted modules (same rolling parameters as everyone else)
How do you reckon they'd feel about being killed with godrolled and unobtainable grandfathered weapons?

Sandro also said if you have a god roll you might want to keep it because it will be better (god roll LR railgun in my previous example).

LOL..once this is realized...you think anyone is going to play in Open that doesn't want this to occur? [smile]

 

[DeathDingo]

LOL..once this is realized...you think anyone is going to play in Open that doesn't want this to occur? [smile]

If this is the case. Then Fdev is driving people out of open aren't they? GG.

 

[Arry]

What is it with all this hearsay and speculation?

On the 25th, we can play the Beta and THEN talk about the facts. If there ARE nerfs in the pipeline; there is still a stack of time, to stack up with 'god rolled modules', because any updates to the game, will not be happening for weeks.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

can we stop with the debate, all I want is input and examples from experienced pvp guys, not debate from forum warriors; plenty of that all over the rest of the boards.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

IMO the new system should categorize the special effects into two lists, and allow you to choose one from each: mechanical effect and experimental effect. One effect of each type.

Examples:
For railguns you'd choose low thermal load as the mechanical effect and feedback cascade for the experimental effect.
For PA's you'd choose low distributor draw as the mechanical effect and dispersal field for the experimental effect.
For multicannons you'd choose damage as the mechanical effect and incendiary rounds for the experimental effect.


Boom, now it's a lot more balanced vs the current godrolled weapons, and much less of a pain in the to grind for.
I forsee a great tidal wave of tears when I start killing people next patch with my godrolled cold cascade/superpen/slug rails that are completely unobtainable from that point on.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Won't know until beta is a go.
If the God rolls now are better than max rolls later that's a problem imo.

I mean in some ways it rewards those who grinded hard but alao rewards blind luck.. I rolled my FDL drives 8 times and got my 140s.

 

[sovapid]

IMO the new system should categorize the special effects into two lists, and allow you to choose one from each: mechanical effect and experimental effect. One effect of each type.

Examples:
For railguns you'd choose low thermal load as the mechanical effect and feedback cascade for the experimental effect.
For PA's you'd choose low distributor draw as the mechanical effect and dispersal field for the experimental effect.
For multicannons you'd choose damage as the mechanical effect and incendiary rounds for the experimental effect.


Boom, now it's a lot more balanced vs the current godrolled weapons, and much less of a pain in the to grind for.
I forsee a great tidal wave of tears when I start killing people next patch with my godrolled cold cascade/superpen/slug rails that are completely unobtainable from that point on.

^ this

From what I saw yesterday, the weapons are gonna be the real sore spot for grandfathering.

 

[Morbad]

what other mods can folk think of where the secondary 'makes' the mod?

Almost all of them, on a power limited vessel that cannot mount an OC power plant.

But if you were the dev, would you really want to tell thousands of players who didn't even ask for a change to engineering that all their engineering work is going to be wiped?

I'd probably wipe all the saves at random intervals, without warning or explanation, just for fun.

From what I saw yesterday, the weapons are gonna be the real sore spot for grandfathering.

Weapons will be the most obvious, but there will be other rolls that are seriously disruptive.

There are some pretty wild distributor secondaries, namely a significant bonus to a random charge rate, at the cost of a small increase to power consumption, that likely won't have an equivalent.

We also haven't seen drives in the new system. Even if DD5s go to 140% in the new system that still lower than the 142% some people are fielding now, and if there is any optimal mass penalty at all on that, some ships that are borderline on mass (FDL is a very good example here) could well be 20-30km/s faster (and correspondingly more maneuverable) with grandfathered drives. Having a foe that can disengage to regenerate or always catch you because you weren't able to roll the right set of drives before the change will be pretty frustrating.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

The current pvpiers who already have god rolls or better rolls than the possible ones with the new system wont be affected.
Anyone new to PvP will be salty.
Anyone who didnt engineer before the update and got rekt with engineered weapons will still get rekt today.

Nothing changed

Good job fdev.